Cold Start 2.0: Is Rawat taking a leaf out of Soviet Tactics to Call Pakistani Tactical Nuclear Buff

[Armchair-General]

And dropping a few thousand troops into the Pakistani cities will allow the Indians to capture them. Urban warfare is the worst for any invading force. Just ask the Americans in Iraq who were constantly shot at with R.P.G.s from the buildings. Even the mighty Abrams was damaged and destroyed on many occasions. Indian transport aircraft won't dare to come near a city due to extensive short range SAMs and MANPADs. That leaves a ground assault. Indian airforce will have to remain careful in Pakistani airspace because it will face Pakistani fighters backed by AEWACs as well as SAMs from the ground. So no close airsupport for Indian soldiers. To enter a city, Indian soldiers will face threat from short range artillary and mortars, ATGMs and RPGs fired by Pakistani soldiers against Indian Armor and Infantry. Use of helis will be limited once again as Pakistan has it's own helis and trying to resupply enemy soldiers in the city will be hard due to MANPAD use by Pakistanis. So, the guy who wants to try this strategy against Pakistan needs to be fired and replaced with someone who's actually competent and knows how to do his job.
Just my two cents.

 

[Sully3]

Its actually hilarious that Indians still in 2018 think that Pakistans only option after cold start is to use tactical nukes.

The first option to deal with Cold start is to start a cold start back against India, rather then wasting resources fighting the indian strike corps in the area they have crossed into past the LOC, Pak army corps will cross over into India and occupy their territory somewhere else on the LOC so negotiations can be achieved by both parties to go back into their side of the LOC.

Whats the point of wasting resources fighting Indian strike corps as its pointless and both parties will inflict damage to each other, the best way to make them retreat is to occupy their territory, so both parties will need to retract.

Tactical nukes dont come into play much later in the game.

Indian COAS is really deluded if he thinks Pak only strategy for cold start is tactical nukes

First of all,India will never be the great Soviet Union.second indian army don't have the capability to engage Pakistan inside Pakistan for too long.pakistan is not fool to use nuclear weapons on its cities but it can wisely cut down indian supply lines and trap Indian army inside pakistan.cost of war will be devastating.as I said in earlier posts, Pakistan has already made it's own doctrine in case of cold start.indians here say lots of things which are beyond understanding like s-400 limits f-16s to Balochistan,India will enter Pakistan without any fear,India will do that India will do everything,I mean I can only give you an example.do you really think that s-400 and your all kind of sams and defence shields will survive in case Pakistan use cruise missiles? Example is american tomahawk attack on Syrian base with air cover by Russians.russians managed to kill few tomahawk before reaching Target but some tomahawk managed to reach the Target and hit precisely.this is just an example for indians who think that their defence shields can't be hit.i must say qr sam and all other projects of Indian army are no exception.we can hit all your defences too.india must be realistic otherwise results will be horrible.

Brother its very simple to counter cold start you dont engage their strike corps that crosses over the border, its a waste of resources and human life for both parties.

If india ever activated cold start Pakistan will do the same, Armies strike corps will go over LOC and take over some Indian territory in a place and time of our liking so both parties will eventually retreat back to the LOC after negotiations.

 

[Didact]

This is not in defence of the apparent strategy that has been outlined by the Indian commentator; planning for a conventional strike into Pakistan and assuming that the tactical nuclear weapon threat can in some way be handled is defying gravity.

This is in answer to the points you have raised. Taking time to plan and to implement the plan is a crime in war-time only to military students who have gained their knowledge of military strategy and of warfare from comic books. The Indian Army got eight months to prepare for the Bangladesh situation, and made full use of it. Currently, if you have even glanced through the magisterial essay by @Tipu7, you would have seen that the Indian Army, in Tipu7's analysis, has systematically tried every element of a post-Cold Start (not Cold Start, the Indian commentator is talking nonsense) in successive years. The outlines of this post-Cold Start doctrine are now clear; its implementation, location and timing, and the order of battle are obviously not part of doctrine, but of strategy.

A little less of chest-inflated posturing, please. Learn to see what is being done, before asking for a Ready-Shoot-Aim sort of procedure.



What do YOU think will happen when nuclear devices, any kind, tactical or strategic, are used by either side? Answer your own question.



One more add-hot-water-and-stir military genius. So much for staff, so much for planning. This could be described as the communal riot school of warfare.

I could tell you that something even bigger is afoot as far as the conventional-nuclear paradigm is concerned-if something can be delineated as being bigger than a strategy that is. I think you have sensed it too. The current paradigm will not be sustainable into the next decade.

 

[Basel]

This is not in defence of the apparent strategy that has been outlined by the Indian commentator; planning for a conventional strike into Pakistan and assuming that the tactical nuclear weapon threat can in some way be handled is defying gravity.

This is in answer to the points you have raised. Taking time to plan and to implement the plan is a crime in war-time only to military students who have gained their knowledge of military strategy and of warfare from comic books. The Indian Army got eight months to prepare for the Bangladesh situation, and made full use of it. Currently, if you have even glanced through the magisterial essay by @Tipu7, you would have seen that the Indian Army, in Tipu7's analysis, has systematically tried every element of a post-Cold Start (not Cold Start, the Indian commentator is talking nonsense) in successive years. The outlines of this post-Cold Start doctrine are now clear; its implementation, location and timing, and the order of battle are obviously not part of doctrine, but of strategy.

A little less of chest-inflated posturing, please. Learn to see what is being done, before asking for a Ready-Shoot-Aim sort of procedure.



What do YOU think will happen when nuclear devices, any kind, tactical or strategic, are used by either side? Answer your own question.



One more add-hot-water-and-stir military genius. So much for staff, so much for planning. This could be described as the communal riot school of warfare.

And you think in Pakistan concerned quarters are not working to counter new Indian war doctrine?? Ever purchase and exercise is now to counter new emerging threat and to implement new doctrine of Pakistan.

Any nuke attack on Indian soil or indian forces,India will retaliate according to our nuclear doctrine.
Meanwhile PAF will fight its own war with IAF trying to save there command centres,air bases throughSEAD DEAD/CAS operations.

If you think Pakistan have not prepared for the worst then you will pay very heavy price in any future war, we can handle full scale invasion, even if we (god forbid) loss major chunk of our territory on ground and air, even then full blown nuclear strike on all over India is possible.

 

[Feng Leng]

I could tell you that something even bigger is afoot as far as the conventional-nuclear paradigm is concerned-if something can be delineated as being bigger than a strategy that is. I think you have sensed it too. The current paradigm will not be sustainable into the next decade.

Just wait until we give Pakistan the railgun. Their cross-border artillery salvos will level Red Fort!

 

[Zhukov]

Well India is the only country in the world that supposidely nutralizes the deterrence tactic of enemy by giving a statement by mouth.
And whole nations rejoices that we have called the bluff [emoji23]
Cruise missile buff Nuclear strike buff and now the latest incoming Tactical Nuke buff.
Next in line will be MIRV buff [emoji23]

 

[Dalit]

Keep 'em guessing.

 

[Basel]

Once Pakistan decides to hit indians with a nuclear weapon then our entires arsenal, military machine and weapons systems will be ready to strike if india even thinks about responding

Indians don't understand that before firing first TNW Pakistan will be ready for MAD and after firing TNWs we will be watching their response, if they launch BMs we will do the same.

 

[Sully3]

To counter cold start, you start a cold start on India at the same time at a different location.

Both parties eventually will sit down talk and retreat.

Tactical nukes is like 3rd option on the table

 

[HRK]

Any nuke attack on Indian soil or indian forces,India will retaliate according to our nuclear doctrine.
Meanwhile PAF will fight its own war with IAF trying to save there command centres,air bases throughSEAD DEAD/CAS operations.

oh plz stop parroting old shit again and again .....

What do YOU think will happen when nuclear devices, any kind, tactical or strategic, are used by either side? Answer your own question.

once again old shity argument ....
Plz first analysis under what circumstance Pakistan would use its NUCLEAR OPTION ... so after falling in such circumstances do you think Pakistan would care the retaliation ???

SO CURRENTLY whatever Indian Chief is saying is nothing more than A BLUFF

BTW IF you have not understand my question than plz let me rephrase it in simple words but first reread the scenario which was presented in the article as NEW MULTI-STRATEGY ACTION PLAN OF INDIAN ARMY

“Hugging the enemy” an interesting strategy which prevented German Air Force from using aerial bombings to drop bombs which could have endangered German Troops on the ground.

Even IF we accept it as an IDEAL strategy to counter Pakistan's defence strategy my question was indicating a simple loophole in this strategy as this strategy will also prevent Indian Air Force to bomb the Pakistani positions due to closeness of Indian force additionally it will FORCE PAF to take the fight in INDIA which will raise security risk to Indian Supply and Command infrastructure .... now can you see any practical use of this strategy ....???

I think whosoever have coined this strategy is still living in WW-II era, he has no understanding of modern war where Stand-off weapons and Battle field missiles will be used more than any previous war

So can anybody seriously believe that Indian defence circles are thinking on these lines ...??? at least I am not going to buy this new strategy as I don't think Indian defence circles are as dumb as portrayed in this article ....

 

[ravi gupta]

And you think in Pakistan concerned quarters are not working to counter new Indian war doctrine?? Ever purchase and exercise is now to counter new emerging threat and to implement new doctrine of Pakistan.



If you think Pakistan have not prepared for the worst then you will pay very heavy price in any future war, we can handle full scale invasion, even if we (god forbid) loss major chunk of our territory on ground and air, even then full blown nuclear strike on all over India is possible.

Yes,its possible thats why Indian establishment is preparing and spending on BMD and ABM facility,India has NFU thats give an advantage to you but by firing puny TNW will give us free hand to retaliate massively,may be that is the ultimate plan.

 

[Basel]

Yes,its possible thats why Indian establishment is preparing and spending on BMD and ABM facility,India has NFU thats give an advantage to you but by firing puny TNW will give us free hand to retaliate massively,may be that is the ultimate plan.

Pakistan is now even ready to face first use of nuclear weapons from India, Indian threats are taken seriously and measures are taken to counter them.

 

[ravi gupta]

Pakistan is now even ready to face first use of nuclear weapons from India, Indian threats are taken seriously and measures are taken to counter them.

i do agree india should abandon NFU,however policy maker should decide according to threat perception.
Pakistan do have a conventional weapon with professional forces,why there nuclear threshold is so low.

 

[jetray]

The very idea of India invading and occupying pakistan is nonsense. If India wanted to do it , we would have done that long time back certainly not after both have nukes.

Technically speaking there is nothing much worth to occupy pakistan, neither it has oil nor it has diamonds that can finance the war.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And you think in Pakistan concerned quarters are not working to counter new Indian war doctrine?? Ever purchase and exercise is now to counter new emerging threat and to implement new doctrine of Pakistan.

Ever heard of the Strawman Argument? When you quote something that the other person never said, and boldly stand up and refute it?

Where did I say that 'concerned quarters' (I don't use that otiose language; to me, quarters are a horse's hind parts) are not working? that has nothing to do with my point that time is needed to plan, and jumping into action blowing a bugle and waving a flag in one hand, with an AK-47 in a third hand is neither very clever nor very ergonomically feasible.

If you think Pakistan have not prepared for the worst then you will pay very heavy price in any future war, we can handle full scale invasion, even if we (god forbid) loss major chunk of our territory on ground and air, even then full blown nuclear strike on all over India is possible.

oh plz stop parroting old shit again and again .....

once again old shity argument ....
Plz first analysis under what circumstance Pakistan would use its NUCLEAR OPTION ... so after falling in such circumstances do you think Pakistan would care the retaliation ???

Coarse language is not a substitute for rational analysis.

I understand you to say that Pakistan's use of tactical nuclear devices is actually an acceptance of extinction, since using it means that there is no concern for strategic retaliation.

You do understand the logical disconnect, or is it not shitty enough for your elevated discernment?

SO CURRENTLY whatever Indian Chief is saying is nothing more than A BLUFF

BTW IF you have not understand my question than plz let me rephrase it in simple words but first reread the scenario which was presented in the article as NEW MULTI-STRATEGY ACTION PLAN OF INDIAN ARMY

Even IF we accept it as an IDEAL strategy to counter Pakistan's defence strategy my question was indicating a simple loophole in this strategy as this strategy will also prevent Indian Air Force to bomb the Pakistani positions due to closeness of Indian force additionally it will FORCE PAF to take the fight in INDIA which will raise security risk to Indian Supply and Command infrastructure .... now can you see any practical use of this strategy ....???

I think whosoever have coined this strategy is still living in WW-II era, he has no understanding of modern war where Stand-off weapons and Battle field missiles will be used more than any previous war

So can anybody seriously believe that Indian defence circles are thinking on these lines ...??? at least I am not going to buy this new strategy as I don't think Indian defence circles are as dumb as portrayed in this article ....

Irrelevant. Not my argument; it is an extremely immature point made, and I do not see why you should assume that the point I asked you about is necessarily rooted in this stand. Please stick to the point.

Ww2 was long time ago Russians were the most loyal and sacrificing force of that era just to repel enemy they would charge German army head. Now technology has came to action nv is with every soldier of both country.
Rawat is good general but one has to keep one thing is mind Pakistan won't use tactical nukes on the first sight of enemy.
This entire article was just time wasting lacking any realities regarding proper invading or war scenario .
There is never going to be war between Pak and ind there will always be border skirmishes. If their is the Allah help us both because it could get to the point of eliminating 1/3 of world population.

Probably the only sensible post in a dismal thread, based on an utterly puerile suggestion by an unknown security consultant.