Cobra crash serious blow to Pakistani army's fight against counterinsurgency

[Armstrong]

Es baat ki gurantee kon day ga keh tum paisay lay kar Mohamdi Nihari yaa Bundu Khan nahi chalay jaaogay?

Meraa tidddd koiii tandooor ehhh that I'd eat $20-30 million worth of food !

 

[acetophenol]

The Pakistani army using Vietnam era AH-1F Cobra gunship helicopters spend more time on the ground then in the air, and if they cannot engage the Taliban and al-Qaida, it may cost additional American lives.

And the latest crash of a Pakistani Cobra AH-1F gunship near the town of Rahwali due to "technical problems" on Dec. 30, demonstrates the importance of their Cobra fleet to counterinsurgency efforts. If the Pakistan army can’t eliminate the Taliban and al-Qaida on their side of the Afghanistan border, more than normal numbers of American troops may be put in harm’s way.

Pakistan, not happy with the refurbished Cobra helicopters bought from the US back in 2007, has started to modify and rebuild them with spare parts provided by Turkey. The Cobra’s require more than expected amounts of maintenance to keep them in airworthy.

And US officials are not keen about this.

Reports state that US authorities aired their reservations to the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff to determine if Pakistan is violating its agreement when the US sold them the helicopters.

Prior to accepting help from Turkey, Pakistani officials made numerous requests to the U.S. for the spare parts needed to fix their fleet, but were repeatedly told no.

No one was killed or seriously hurt when the Cobra AH-1F Gunship hit the ground. Pakistan's military’s Inter Service Press Release (ISPR) stated the helicopter had made a forced landing after a “technical fault.”

The release also said that two crewmembers suffered minor injuries and were taken to the Central Military Hospital in nearby Gujranwala. Local police and Pakistani military personnel secured the crash site.

Pakistan received the Cobra helicopters as part of a $1 billion weapons package the US sold to four allies including France, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. The main contractor, who refurbished the Cobra helicopters before the sale, was US Helicopter Manufacturing Co. in Ozark, Ala.

Washington and the US Department of Defense approved the sale of an unspecified number of refurbished AH-1F Cobra helicopters. The AH-1F was the last upgrade to the Cobra gunship as they were phased out of the US arsenal in 1999.

The Pentagon said the additional refurbishment performed on the Cobras would help Pakistan defeat al-Qaida and the Taliban fighters, who are allegedly using the tribal areas as bases to attack US troops in Afghanistan and conduct counterterrorism missions. However, if Pakistan cannot fly Cobra missions, more attacks on US troops is a likely result.

The aging fleet of Cobras is making it difficult for Pakistan to heavily deploy them in missions in the harsh, mountainous terrain along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. Cobra helicopters play a significant role for the Pakistani military in SWAT and missions against the Taliban in tribal areas.

The number of Cobras in working order is unknown. Some sources cite approximately 40, but this number is optimistic, as Pakistan is currently cannibalizing other Cobras in their fleet to keep the others flying.

According to a report from The Associated Press, images of the crash show the helicopter "broken in at least two pieces behind the cockpit. The skids have collapsed, and the engine and tail separated."

The crash has put a spotlight on Pakistan's need to acquire newer helicopters and retire the ones that are beginning to fall apart. It makes no difference how many Pakistan has in service, it just can't afford to lose any more of them.

Political factors are also making replacing non-working Cobras difficult. The US offered to provide Pakistan with the newer AH-1Z gunship, but the only ones available are in use by the US Marines. And providing the Marines is a priority over Pakistan's needs.

Turkey came to Pakistan's rescue, and when the US refused to supply the needed parts, Turkey supplied them to help Pakistan keep their fleet in the air.

Turkey has also offered Pakistan three T-129's, not only at no cost to them, but help Pakistan set up local assembly. However, Pakistan would need to replace about 40 Cobras, and it is uncertain if it can afford it.

Pakistan had also requested aid for upgrades to its aging fleet of F-16 fighter jets. Pakistan has 46 that have reached their half-life. However, US lawmakers are lukewarm to Pakistan's request, saying that the helicopters are more effective than fighter jets as an insurgency tool.

Part of the hesitation by the Americans is that Pakistan has a history of not properly maintaining US-supplied equipment.

According to a June 2008 report released by the Government Accountability Office, its auditors documented that despite receiving $55 million in reimbursements to help maintain its fleet, Pakistan's army was not maintaining it, resulting in poor readiness rates for critical assets, which included the AH-1F Cobra and the MI-17 utility helicopters.

And while it appears from recent events that Pakistan may now be serious about maintaining its fleet of attack helicopters, whether it becomes more serious about using them against al-Qaida in tribal areas under their control has yet to be seen, said the GAO report.
Cobra crash serious blow to Pakistani army's fight against counterinsurgency

Original reporting by George McGinn, except for the use of The Associated Press' descriptions of the photos from the latest helicopter crash. They were not available to me at the time.

Sources used for this report also include: ISPR Press Release, GAO Reports (four of them), and US documents on the original sale of the Cobras in 2007.

View more reports by George McGinn.

The bold sentence,how is faulty pak cobras going to cost amercan lives?

 

[Manindra]

MI-17 is no good bro.India too experimented with this concept and found that Mi-17 is vulnarable from small arms fire.remember,talibans even brought down or damaged mighty Apaches.some Apaches are so damaged that USA forced to scrap them.if a gunship can't cope with small arms fire,whats the chance that heavy slow moving less agile Mi-17s will??also,I'm not a big fan of straffing..a country shouldn't use its air force on its own people as danged to its civilians are far too great.

The new MI-17 V5 is very good helicopter for insurgency. Apache is dedicated gunship helicopter. Its like comparing apple & oranges.
Pakistan got unarmed version for utility role.
Check out armed version of MI-17V5 of IAF.

 

[GR!FF!N]

The new MI-17 V5 is very good helicopter for insurgency. Apache is dedicated gunship helicopter. Its like comparing apple & oranges.
Pakistan got unarmed version for utility role.
Check out armed version of MI-17V5 of IAF.

Look,I know about Mi-17 V5.I also know about Mi-171SH and Mi-8AMTSH.also about Mi-17-1V.there are several dozens of Mi-17 variants.but these bulky helos converted for armed role(except the dedicated version ones) aren't useful for gunship role.India learned that after when one got shot down i kargil.most probably the results were unsatisfactory.

Mi-17-1V

Mi-8AMTSH

 

[Pulsar]

They sheltered those who carried out attacks on US carrier and then got Twin Tower erased from the face of earth .

Yep I know truth hurts !

Oh crap! Sorry I asked!!

 

[Mav3rick]

This is an old US policy... "Use and throw". Unfortunately Pakistanis have learnt it the heard way.

I am not so certain that we have still 'learnt' it!

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Keep in mind these are the old single engine Cobras and not the twin engine Super Cobras the US uses. Maybe the upgrade to twin engine is what Pakistan wants but the US doesn't want to do.

 

[rockstar08]

Lovey Bhai aaap Dollar bhejeiiin mein kal hiii niyaa Helicopter leiii leitaa hoooon !

yaar ek mere liye bhi please , traffic buhat bardh gaya ha karachi main , aur waise bhi kati pahari ke pas se guzrte hue dar lagta hai

 

[Armstrong]

The bold sentence,how is faulty pak cobras going to cost amercan lives?

Possibly the implication is that Pakistan's failure to deal with militancy on this side - the Al-Qaeeda & its local off-shoots & not the Afghan Taliban - may give rise to increased sanctuaries for their comrades on the other side (again not the Afghan Taliban) !

 

[haman10]

dude !!! crashes happen !

why is that a serious blow ? i'm not saying this out of feeling superior but iran will come to your help in heart beat if u want !!

our company "panha" is very capable in overhaul and building new cobra helicopters (without licence )

good luck brothers fighting a@@hole terrorists

 

[SrNair]

Oh that is too bad.Taliban is known for their almost accurate RPG firing .A helicopter that is ripped apart when grounded cant go nearer to Taliban insurgents.
Russian helicopters is bulky not good for now.India already experienced that.So that why we developed LCH and RUDRA.for our own use.

 

[Manindra]

Look,I know about Mi-17 V5.I also know about Mi-171SH and Mi-8AMTSH.also about Mi-17-1V.there are several dozens of Mi-17 variants.but these bulky helos converted for armed role(except the dedicated version ones) aren't useful for gunship role.India learned that after when one got shot down i kargil.most probably the results were unsatisfactory.

Mi-17-1V

Mi-8AMTSH

MI-17 which shot down over kargil did not have EW suite, chaff & flare dispenser & is not dedicated armed version.
You are comparing apple & oranges.

 

[GR!FF!N]

MI-17 which shot down over kargil did not have EW suite, chaff & flare dispenser & is not dedicated armed version.
You are comparing apple & oranges.

read my post again..I said that "Converted Mi-17 for armed role",not the dedicated one.the pakistani member was talking about "Converting Mi-17s for strafing"...

 

[Informant]

Es baat ki gurantee kon day ga keh tum paisay lay kar Mohamdi Nihari yaa Bundu Khan nahi chalay jaaogay?

Aggay lango tussi loki hun mohmdi hor bundu khan to. Johnny Rockets khul gaya hai bhai L'ore 'ch! Party on me!

 

[Manindra]

read my post again..I said that "Converted Mi-17 for armed role",not the dedicated one.the pakistani member was talking about "Converting Mi-17s for strafing"...

The guy didn't know a bit about technology. Pakistan can't armed MI-17 without Russian permission & Russia
insures India that if they would trying to arm then exhaust up by spare parts.