Featured COAS Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, Saudi deputy defence minister discuss security issues

[PakFactor]

If you're willing to employ 4 million Pakistanis, you can start imagining breaking away from Saudi Arabia. Until then, you may want to change your silly attitude towards Saudi Arabia.

Also, Saudi Arabia does not mean Saudi Arabia - it means 23 Arab countries.

Palestine, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Libya all broke away from Saudi alignment - look at those poor nations (and occupied territory) today, nothing more than target practice for militaries from around the world.

You do realize besides those countries the whole Muslim World is target practice for foreign militaries --
Being aligned with them or not doesn't matter.

 

[KaiserX]

If you're willing to employ 4 million Pakistanis, you can start imagining breaking away from Saudi Arabia. Until then, you may want to change your silly attitude towards Saudi Arabia.

Also, Saudi Arabia does not mean Saudi Arabia - it means 23 Arab countries.

Palestine, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Libya all broke away from Saudi alignment - look at those poor nations (and occupied territory) today, nothing more than target practice for militaries from around the world.

Im not saying it doesnt benefit Pakistan im saying that it benefits KSA far more as well. Think about it they get cheap labour, educated labour, and the migrants spend most of the income they make back into the Saudi Economies anyways.

GCC looks at itself as the exception to the rest of these arab countries. Also why should we look at 23-30 arab countries? Countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Turkey are far better models for us to look at.

GCC is an economic disaster at the moment. It does not have the economic clout as it once did. And Pakistans repayment of the saudi loan is not even thought of from an economic standpoint. THe loan was a loan to begin with not a grant. Saudi is in an economic catastrophy and needs any penny that it can get.

 

[Rafi]

Pakistan has two friends and allies Turkey and China, with the new alliance between China and Iran, we could have a 3rd. The Shahs Iran was a close ally maybe it can happen again.

And that doesn't mean we would not have a good relationship with the Gulfies, but no more will we sacrifice our interests for theirs.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... Also why should we look at 23-30 arab countries? Countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Turkey are far better models for us to look at.

Do you seriously believe Indonesia, Malaysia and Turkey have jobs waiting for 4 million Pakistanis? If that option was ever available, Pakistan would've taken advantage of without thinking twice.

GCC is an economic disaster at the moment. It does not have the economic clout as it once did. And Pakistans repayment of the saudi loan is not even thought of from an economic standpoint. THe loan was a loan to begin with not a grant. Saudi is in an economic catastrophy and needs any penny that it can get.

Do you even know the size of Pakistani trade with 23 Arab countries or just even the GCC only?

You seem to be under the impression that Pakistan sends cheap labour to GCC and in return Pakistan receives remittances. And, that's it.

There are billions of dollars of bilateral trade between Pakistan and the Arab World. I suggest you do a little bit of research before imagining Pakistan riding on a high horse.

External Trade Statistics Tables | Pakistan Bureau of Statistics

www.pbs.gov.pk

 

[PK784]

There are billions of dollars of bilateral trade between Pakistan and the Arab World. I suggest you do a little bit of research before imagining Pakistan riding on a high horse.

External Trade Statistics Tables | Pakistan Bureau of Statistics

www.pbs.gov.pk

Those stats show that we export more to bangladesh then we do to Saudi. That says it all.

 

[PK784]

Although this interesting article is in Indian media, it quotes express tribune PK opinion piece by Imad Zafar :

https://thewire.in/south-asia/pakistan-saudi-arabia-relations-media-censorship

 

[KaiserX]

Those stats show that we export more to bangladesh then we do to Saudi. That says it all.

Exactly just literally proved my point-

Our trade with the GCC is abysmal and the little trade we do have benefits the GCC far more than it does to us. We are bleeding dollars for the sake of these Sheikhs and provided them cheap manpower to build their SHEIKHDOMS and thats supposed to be a reason to continue bending down. Hell India has benefits 100x more than Pakistan, they export far far more to them at cheaper duties, they re-export refined petroleum/gas from these Arab countries earning huge amount of export dollars (re-exported refined petro products count as the final exporting destination). India achieves over 50+ billion dollars in exports just by re-exporting gulf oil:

List of countries by refined petroleum exports - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Had we been smart we would have used our close relationship and close geographic location to the gulf to benefit from building refined petroleum complexes as India has done in gujrat.

Why is it that Pakistanis mindset when it comes to economic development is sending cheap labour to other countries??? We can better employee 4 million Pakistanis at home if we formulate the right policies. Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey DO NOT RELY on exporting cheap labour in return for remittance... which is precisely why they are better economic models to follow and develop ties with.

SMQ is definately onto something here...in 10 years the SHEIHKDOMS will become far less influential while the influence of Turkey and Indonesia will be far largers.

 

[PakFactor]

Exactly just literally proved my point-

Our trade with the GCC is abysmal and the little trade we do have benefits the GCC far more than it does to us. We are bleeding dollars for the sake of these Sheikhs and provided them cheap manpower to build their SHEIKHDOMS and thats supposed to be a reason to continue bending down. Hell India has benefits 100x more than Pakistan, they export far far more to them at cheaper duties, they re-export refined petroleum/gas from these Arab countries earning huge amount of export dollars (re-exported refined petro products count as the final exporting destination). India achieves over 50+ billion dollars in exports just by re-exporting gulf oil:

List of countries by refined petroleum exports - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Had we been smart we would have used our close relationship and close geographic location to the gulf to benefit from building refined petroleum complexes as India has done in gujrat.

Why is it that Pakistanis mindset when it comes to economic development is sending cheap labour to other countries??? We can better employee 4 million Pakistanis at home if we formulate the right policies. Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey DO NOT RELY on exporting cheap labour in return for remittance... which is precisely why they are better economic models to follow and develop ties with.

SMQ is definately onto something here...in 10 years the SHEIHKDOMS will become far less influential while the influence of Turkey and Indonesia will be far largers.

Relying on remittance for cheap labor is a short term gain and only way to gain advantage is facilitating those workers back home and knowledge transfer. We’ve failed miserably in the human resource department in managing this country. I’ve always said our relationship with Saudis is from a religious and geo strategic view — which in of itself is very limited; in how we utilize our position. We’ve never greatly expanded our Navy or Air Force to use their land or anything - if I’m not mistaken even India has a Naval agreement with Oman.

As for their survival they are clutching at straws and they have nothing else to offer the world besides black gold — low level oil prices are here to stay permanently and they’ve wasted their national resources on building useless works of art — slowly even citizens are waking up and asking while we are suffering their building palaces and buying up $500M pictures etc. eventually this will blow up on their faces coupled with royal infighting as well

 

[KaiserX]

Relying on remittance for cheap labor is a short term gain and only way to gain advantage is facilitating those workers back home and knowledge transfer. We’ve failed miserably in the human resource department in managing this country. I’ve always said our relationship with Saudis is from a religious and geo strategic view — which in of itself is very limited; in how we utilize our position. We’ve never greatly expanded our Navy or Air Force to use their land or anything - if I’m not mistaken even India has a Naval agreement with Oman.

As for their survival they are clutching at straws and they have nothing else to offer the world besides black gold — low level oil prices are here to stay permanently and they’ve wasted their national resources on building useless works of art — slowly even citizens are waking up and asking while we are suffering their building palaces and buying up $500M pictures etc. eventually this will blow up on their faces coupled with royal infighting as well

Exactly- Do you know a Colonel in the UAE/KSA army makes upto 30k USD per month?

We never benefited economically or geopolitically. We can still reorient our foreign policy and try to benefit. For that we simply cannot put all our eggs in one basket and have to diversity our relationship. Something I finally see the foreign office doing.

Going forward our relationship with the GCC has to be only for our national benefit. Make them invest in building refineries in Pakistan so we can re-export there oil/gas. We can provide lower prices than India. We build up exports and they make a profit. Definately a more equal economic relationship. Build a free trade pact with the GCC so we can build our exports to these countries. Pakistan can easily export 10x more than what we are doing currently to the GCC.

From a military relationship we can station more Pakistani troops in the kingdom at strategic positions. Build up the reliance of the GCC on our military. Make an agreement that we can station our troops/assets in the gulf during peacetime/wartime with India. Imagine Paksitani military assets hitting India from the gulf. Station ballistic missiles/cruise missiles, etc...Id rather see these Sheikhs subservient to our military. Building up there reliance on us as a partner.

We have acceeded much space to the US, Israel, and now India

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

FO hails OIC contributions to Kashmir cause
​

Baqir Sajjad Syed |Updated 21 Aug 2020

FO spokesperson Zahid Chaudhri says Islamabad committed to sovereignty and territorial integrity of Saudi Arabia. — Twitter/File

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Office Spokesman Zahid Chaudhri on Thursday reaffirmed Pakistan’s commitment to the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) and recalled its contributions to the Kashmir cause.
​

“Pakistan remains committed to the unity of Muslim Ummah and has always worked towards that end. Pakistan will continue its efforts to keep the Muslim Ummah united,” Mr Chaudhri said in his maiden briefing as the FO spokesman.

It should be recalled that what appeared to be a crisis in Pakistan-Saudi Arabia ties began with Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi’s criticism of the OIC for its dilly-dallying on convening of a Council of Foreign Ministers’ meeting on occupied Kashmir.

Mr Qureshi had threatened to convene a meeting of the Muslim countries even outside the OIC setting, if the 57-member bloc continued with its reluctance on calling the Kashmir meeting.

Says Islamabad committed to sovereignty and territorial integrity of Saudi Arabia
​

The outgoing FO spokesperson, Aisha Farooqui, had at the last media briefing on Aug 6 defended Mr Qureshi’s statement on OIC, saying it was a reflection of people’s aspirations and expectations from the OIC to raise the Kashmir issue internationally.

Mr Chaudhri praised OIC’s contributions on the issue of Kashmir, saying it had indeed played “an important role” by establishing a contact group, appointing a special envoy of the secretary general on the dispute, and passing a number of resolutions condemning Indian actions and continuing human rights violations in occupied Kashmir.

The rare bitterness in tone on the OIC’s role seems to have gone away after Army Chief Gen Qamar Bajwa’s recent visit to Saudi Arabia, where he met his military counterpart and the deputy defence minister.

Mr Chaudhri said Gen Bajwa’s trip “testifies to the unchanged fraternal relations and close contact between the two brotherly countries”. He also referred to Prime Minister Imran Khan’s comments stressing the importance of ties.

He said Pakistan valued Saudi Arabia’s important role in the OIC Contact Group on Jammu & Kashmir. “Pakistan has an abiding commitment to defending the sanctity of Harmain Sharifain. Pakistan remains firmly committed to the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of Saudi Arabia,” he maintained and praised the Saudi leadership.

“The people of Pakistan have special reverence and affection for the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques (Khadim-ul-Harmain Sharifain),” he further said.

On Palestine, the spokesman reiterated there was “no change in Pakistan’s principled position” and repeated Pakistan’s longstanding position on the dispute to dispel the impression created by an earlier vaguely worded statement on the UAE-US-Israel agreement on normalisation of ties.

“We have an abiding commitment to the full realisation of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people, including the right to self-determination. For a just, comprehensive and lasting peace, Pakistan has consistently supported a two-state solution in accordance with the relevant United Nations and OIC resolutions as well as international law, with pre-1967 borders and Al-Quds Al-Sharif as the capital of Palestine,” he added.

Very diplomatic statements, well done.

 

[Armchair]

It's confusing. The Saudis have made by their mind up, oh well, time to let go of things, well at least until the next king comes along.
The Americans have no time for foreign policy at this point in time, let alone turning away from Pakistan. It's going to be a major battle in the election, domestic issues are sky high e.g. jobs, racial tension etc.
Pakistan needs to as the old saying goes, keep calm and carry on.

I think it is a big foreign policy mistake not to try to benefit from the ups and downs of international politics. Just like @MastanKhan suggested with Yemen, and currently regarding the F-16s and Trump. It was pleasantly surprising to see Pak attempt to be proactive after a long time in Azerbaijan but that was just one small thing in a sea of inactivity.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Bajwa: So your excellency when can we expect Saudia to recognize Israel and will there be direct flights between Medina and Tel Aviv?

His Excellency: Soon General Sahib, soon. We will offer great flight deals by Saudia to Tel Aviv, Haifa and Eilat.

 

[PakFactor]

I think it is a big foreign policy mistake not to try to benefit from the ups and downs of international politics. Just like @MastanKhan suggested with Yemen, and currently regarding the F-16s and Trump. It was pleasantly surprising to see Pak attempt to be proactive after a long time in Azerbaijan but that was just one small thing in a sea of inactivity.

I’ll be honest to many underlining currents are going on and we were right not to get involved. And in coming years it’ll show why.

 

[MastanKhan]

I think it is a big foreign policy mistake not to try to benefit from the ups and downs of international politics. Just like @MastanKhan suggested with Yemen, and currently regarding the F-16s and Trump. It was pleasantly surprising to see Pak attempt to be proactive after a long time in Azerbaijan but that was just one small thing in a sea of inactivity.

Hi,

History of every successful nation is filled with taking advantage for the ups and downs in international politics.

The muslims of arabia became a world power of that time and those from Turkey as well.

I don't understand that cowardice taking over the current day pakistanis---.

 

[TheTallGuy]

chill... @Armchair

You should be part of PDF.