Featured COAS Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, Saudi deputy defence minister discuss security issues

[CrazyZ]

Trip was poorly timed. Bajwa arrived after the Iran arms embargo debacle at the UNSC. USA, KSA/GCC and Israel were all strongly backing the embargo. Result was a humiliation for USA and KSA. Pakistan is clearly in the Eurasian block that humiliated the USA at the UNSC. KSA snubbed Bajwa in retaliation, IMO. Reality is Pakistan could have convinced more countries to vote favorably on Kashmir at the UNSC then the USA got on Iran arms embargo. Hopefully this was a wake up call for MBS to hedge ties with USA and China. Hopefully this was a wake up call for the Pakistani establishment to not rely on KSA/GCC. Continue to engage them but do not rely on them.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Our top guy goes there and he meets a deputy defence minister?

First thing on the agenda was "how to give UAE leaders a spanking" and secondly "how achieve regime change in UAE" and thirdly lessons on Kashmir.

Lol, the Saudis support the UAE’s move, they’ll gladly watch as other Arabs follow UAE. And then when all have fell in line, they’ll move last to recognise Israel.

 

[jk007]

That's the problem my friend, if they had honor, they would not have gone to them like to this to be humiliated. Indian media is having a field day.

Per Indian media - Pak is trying to play double game (Saudi + UAE etc Vs Turkey + Qatar etc), which is what MBS did not like. You guys need to correct, if it is wrong.

PS: These games are dangerous.

 

[jk007]

Bajwa failed to take any sane advice and got snubbed by the Saudis.

Lets see our top official visits there country and only has an audience with their DEPUTY defence minister. A huge snub. I blame officials like him for the predicament where in to begin with. SMQ has guts to have spoken the truth for once.

What interests do we have in KSA other than the 2 holy mosques? KSA economic influence over Pakistan is far over exagerated to begin with. Sure we get remittance, but they benefit from cheap labour and domestic spending of the migrants who spend most of the money they make back into the Saudi Economy.

Our trade relations are minimal. We import far more from them. Military relations also favour them since we have gained nothing from the military support provided over the last few decades.

I say start isolating the saudis. The UAE, KSA, Gulf are facing an economic demise of epic proportions. Tourism and oil spending is wayyyy down and expected to remain that way. Their power base is very shaky thus there increasing reliance on the US/Israel. Those relationships are also on shaky grounds.

The last thing the Saudis will want is a Pakistan with its own interests in mind who stands upto ARAB aggression. Imagine Iran x 100 and you have Pakistan which can point its nukes at Riyadh or Dubai. Make these warnings and follow thru and see how these sheihks tremble. We will see how the US, Israel, or India helps them when Pakistan decides. No nation in the world would risk nuclear confrontation with a Rising Pakistan

NS was the biggest saudi puppet of epic proportions, what difference is IK/Bajwa? At the end of the day you are not answerable to the saudis, chinese, but only ALLAH.

I guess you are emotional. It is not a joke to point nukes at saudi + gcc nations. It is not a fun exercise. Such kind of actions will neither be forgotten nor forgiven.

 

[PakFactor]

Saudi Arab plan to create a new city NEOM near Israel and resettle the decedents of Banu Nadir, Banu Qainuqa, and Banu Qurayza from Israel to NEOM. This is part of the peace deal between Saudi and Israel and that's why there was a Saudi drama to show that Muslims and Jews can be friends.

Do you have a source for this?

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

 

[PakFactor]

Per Indian media - Pak is trying to play double game (Saudi + UAE etc Vs Turkey + Qatar etc), which is what MBS did not like. You guys need to correct, if it is wrong.

PS: These games are dangerous.

You really need to stop listening to Indian Media --
They don't have an iota of clue in regards to our relationship and internally what's going on.

 

[PradoTLC]

Per Indian media - Pak is trying to play double game (Saudi + UAE etc Vs Turkey + Qatar etc), which is what MBS did not like. You guys need to correct, if it is wrong.

PS: These games are dangerous.

indian media ...enough said

 

[jupiter2007]

Do you have a source for this?

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Saudi diplomat

 

[Super Falcon]

Agree, Foreign Affairs is the job of the civilian government. There is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION for a COAS to run to the Saudis like this and get snubbed and humiliated.

I hope lwmessons should be learn it seens ugly when govt has one stance and coas runs for unnecessary meeting thedevtype of acts are not good it creates awfull picture of our nation hope military understannd that

 

[Imran Khan]

Per Indian media - Pak is trying to play double game (Saudi + UAE etc Vs Turkey + Qatar etc), which is what MBS did not like. You guys need to correct, if it is wrong.

PS: These games are dangerous.

its game of interests every country keep doors open . we must have good relations with all sides

 

[HAIDER]

Saudi Arab plan to create a new city NEOM near Israel and resettle the decedents of Banu Nadir, Banu Qainuqa, and Banu Qurayza from Israel to NEOM. This is part of the peace deal between Saudi and Israel and that's why there was a Saudi drama to show that Muslims and Jews can be friends.

Interesting ,,, a good read by it's not Muslims perspective ... but an excellent read ...

Jewish History 620 - 629

The only Year by Year History of the Jewish people on the WEB. The site includes a linked name index and covers Biographies and major events in Jewish scholarship, anti-Semitism, and events which make Jewish history so fascinating.

www.jewishhistory.org.il

 

[KaiserX]

I was able to speak with a source with network in the government --

They say SMQ reacted out on his own (and frustration) and what he said isn't government position and another thing they mentioned, their is no Foreign Policy Strategy at the moment -- Pakistan is trying to run towards America and build friendly relations but the U.S. isn't as reciprocal as they thought it would be, and he mentioned that Pakistani's don't understand that in International Relations theirs no such thing as friendship.

His feeling is that Imran Khan has no control at the moment of what's going on and each minister is acting out on their own -- their is no solid command and control in place.

There is no command and control because most of the ministers in IKs govt look at themselves as experience experts who have been in power for decades. IK before and after taking power is 2 different personalities. I also dont blame SMQ and see benefits in Pakistan moving away from the GCC axis of power and creating its own independent islamic block along with Turkey/Malaysia/Indonesia. The GCC is facing an economic crisis of epic proportions. There 2 main industries ie Oil/Tourism is down 90%. They are sucking up their reserves at an extremely fast pace. Then we have countries such as Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia which are built on solid economic foundations and are projected to be in the top 10 largest economies within a decade.

Simply put the future of the GCC is increasingly looking like a Militaristic Monarchy with depleting economic influence. The Royals will increasingly make bizarre aggressive foreign policy blunders. Look at these nations today... KSA/UAE bombing innocent civilians in Yemen, GCC cant pay their beaurocrats and are increasingly making cuts to their public service sector (90% of national employment), most educated skilled expats have left dubai and are working remote from their home nations (which is the future of work), KSA is fast making cuts to projects such as NEOM, gas plants, etc...

I look at this increasing in the future and honestly you cannot rule out these Royals being hostile to a rising Pakistan backed by China.

I never agreed with IK caving into Saudi pressure and not sticking to the promise which he made to his dear friend Mathahir (Malaysian PM).

He needs to come down harder on his ministers and formulate clear/concise policies.

 

[Dil_Pakistan]

I was able to speak with a source with network in the government --

They say SMQ reacted out on his own (and frustration) and what he said isn't government position and another thing they mentioned, their is no Foreign Policy Strategy at the moment -- Pakistan is trying to run towards America and build friendly relations but the U.S. isn't as reciprocal as they thought it would be, and he mentioned that Pakistani's don't understand that in International Relations theirs no such thing as friendship.

His feeling is that Imran Khan has no control at the moment of what's going on and each minister is acting out on their own -- their is no solid command and control in place.

The second & third para seem not aligned with the happening though. Not dis-respecting the source or anything but different people have different perspective and take on things.
Is it just co-incidence that SMQ makes a statement. Then few days or a week or so later goes to China where he is warmly welcomed and a joint statement is issued stating China supports Pakistan in its "independent" policy path to guards its own interest and that PM IK gives an interview just a day or two before SMQ visit where he makes clear that Pakistan's future is with China. SA is a good friend but they have their own foreign policy. It hard to fathom that there is no strategy or foregn policy.
What could be the case could be that traditionally our bureaucracy and babus have been pro-west/US (Pak's US tilt since early 1950s), so there is always an inkling to go in that direction. Plus likes of SMQ who has been FM in past even in AZ's govt., have a point of view (the famous head butting with Hillary Clinton), and likes of SZB who are said to have good relations with trump family feel that something can be done. But imo it's the PM IK, Army Chief and the State that is driving the foreign policy and calling the shots.

 

[PakFactor]

The second & third para seem not aligned with the happening though. Not dis-respecting the source or anything but different people have different perspective and take on things.
Is it just co-incidence that SMQ makes a statement. Then few days or a week or so later goes to China where he is warmly welcomed and a joint statement is issued stating China supports Pakistan in its "independent" policy path to guards its own interest and that PM IK gives an interview just a day or two before SMQ visit where he makes clear that Pakistan's future is with China. SA is a good friend but they have their own foreign policy. It hard to fathom that there is no strategy or foregn policy.
What could be the case could be that traditionally our bureaucracy and babus have been pro-west/US (Pak's US tilt since early 1950s), so there is always an inkling to go in that direction. Plus likes of SMQ who has been FM in past even in AZ's govt., have a point of view (the famous head butting with Hillary Clinton), and likes of SZB who are said to have good relations with trump family feel that something can be done. But imo it's the PM IK, Army Chief and the State that is driving the foreign policy and calling the shots.

Could very well be lots of head butting going on in various departments and those who've been close to US/UK & Co. could be feeling threatened of losing their spots. One thing about Pakistan theirs lots of information coming out and often conflicts with each other -- guess to keep the enemy guessing.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

...

What interests do we have in KSA other than the 2 holy mosques? KSA economic influence over Pakistan is far over exagerated to begin with. Sure we get remittance, but they benefit from cheap labour and domestic spending of the migrants who spend most of the money they make back into the Saudi Economy. ...

If you're willing to employ 4 million Pakistanis, you can start imagining breaking away from Saudi Arabia. Until then, you may want to change your silly attitude towards Saudi Arabia.

Also, Saudi Arabia does not mean Saudi Arabia - it means 23 Arab countries.

Palestine, Iraq, Yemen, Syria and Libya all broke away from Saudi alignment - look at those poor nations (and occupied territory) today, nothing more than target practice for militaries from around the world.