COAS Gen Bajwa intends to cut army strength of 5,38,000 substantially over next 5 years

[lastofthepatriots]

How will we compete with indian human wave tactics?

All that bs about tactical nuclear weapons looks good on paper but practicality wise is useless.

 

[Indos]

From 2017

View attachment 830224

I think you missinterpret what is the meaing of lakh in India. No way India has 12 million soliders, even China has only 2 million

 

[Abdulaziz Al-Karimi]

I don't think this will fruitless as max the reduction will be few 3-5k to make room for other purchases and increase in paramilitary..

If you add paramilitary, stragetic forces and the military then there is currently active 1.17m armed forces and decrease of few 3-5k is acceptable to make room for purchases elsewhere

 

[Indos]

Well actually initially in the conflict Russia held the advantage in numbers as it concentrated the fastest and was the one with initiative as it was on the offensive. Bear in mind Ukrainian mobilization took place just a few days from Invasion which was barely enough time to call upon any of the reserves. Even then, Ukrainians were fairly robust and innovative in their deployments and usage of equipment with their Air Defense units being one example.
I do want to point out that it is extremely early to tell things and make sweeping statements about any side at this point as the war is ongoing and all we have are snippets from the war. Over time a true picture can be made and facts ascertained with more clarity.

Russian invasion has been known since middle of 2021, many US allies has been informed. Do you think why Indonesia discard the order of SU 35 in middle of 2021 ?

The fact that, regardless Ukraine has 1 million soldiers ( professionals/half semi professional-most likely police force ) + the fact men cannot leave Ukraine = they still lost in war by seeing Russia has invaded some parts of their country and also attack their capital city ( captured some part of it before recently leaving it to concentrate the invasion in Donbas and other eastern region ).

Ukraine-Russia war has been going on since decade ago in Donbas region, they have of course think of possible all out Russia invasion and preparing for it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If our Foot soldier Count is only 560,000 then it is very modest
We should target 2.5 to 5.6 Million Troops

2.5 Million in Active Duty
+500,000 Reserves (On Call)

We have a population of 230,000,000 Million People


The New Growth can certainly happen in Balochistan Province
With intention of Protection of CPEC route and also Riqo Diq Gold mines
As the largest copper and gold mines exist in Balochistan , that area needs a full fledge Army presence

 

[PakFactor]

There is no downsizing...look at the source of this post. Can't believe people are actually wasting time discussing it. Moderators please close this thread.

If I'm not mistaken the author was at the recent Islamabad Security Dialogue

 

[INS_Vikrant]

From 2017

The "Lakh" VS Million confusion however it is 2:1 ratio for soldier count which is reasonable

I often use "Million" vs Lakh Unit

View attachment 830224

Pakistan army is huge considering size, population and economy of both countries

 

[khail007]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1510605662962974720

Finally we are going in right direction.

The tweeter seems to be confused, the first line below is in favor of a potent force with all modernization and firepower. The second line in bold implies it is for peace ... !
It more seems to be like - Rod is the logic of Fools. Where is peace in it OR it is to instigate fear in the enemy's heart?

--------
Focus areas for modernization: firepower & cyber! My second video will be on what this means for Pak military & Indian military.

First one on peace with India!
---------

 

[That Guy]

Yep two insurgencies, both which have depleted manpower.Shocking to be honest.

That's exactly why this is a good idea.

Pakistan suffers high casualties because it's soldiers aren't even equipped with basic gear that most modern armies use, and still uses cold war equipment that need to be replaced. Body armor and advanced Ballistic helmets are reserved for elite units, as are sights for the weapons that PA uses, night vision still hasn't been rolled out across the entire Pakistani infantry despite previous commitments to do so. Then you have a severe lack of communication devices, which each infantry soldier should be getting. IFV/AFV/MRAPs are also in dire need of purchase.

Also, down sizing could just mean not increasing the current numbers further, which PA has traditionally done every year to match the 1-3 ratio. However, if Pakistan can buy the items I've listed, especially body army, new advanced Ballistic helmets, and sights for infantry rifles, the average infantryman survival rate will increase dramatically.

At this point, Pakistan just cannot keep up by manpower alone. India is increasing its population too quickly to maintain a strategic and tactical balance in the medium to long term. The only chance Pakistan has is to increase its force multipliers, which means more technology.

PA also needs to make sure that it stamps out corruption within the army in the process. We've seen what happens when corruption is allowed to run rampant via Russia. My fear is that if Pakistan doesn't nip this in the bud, Pakistan's next conflict with India will be a one sided massacre.

 

[TOPGUN]

Very good and smart move mashallah.

 

[waz]

That's exactly why this is a good idea.

Pakistan suffers high casualties because it's soldiers aren't even equipped with basic gear that most modern armies use, and still uses cold war equipment that need to be replaced. Body armor and advanced Ballistic helmets are reserved for elite units, as are sights for the weapons that PA uses, night vision still hasn't been rolled out across the entire Pakistani infantry despite previous commitments to do so. Then you have a severe lack of communication devices, which each infantry soldier should be getting. IFV/AFVs are also in dire need of purchase.

Also, down sizing could just mean not increasing the current numbers further, which PA has traditionally done every year to match the 1-3 ratio. However, if Pakistan can buy the items I've listed, especially body army, new advanced Ballistic helmets, and sights for infantry rifles, the average infantryman survival rate will increase dramatically.

At this point, Pakistan just cannot keep up by manpower alone. India is increasing its population too quickly to maintain a strategic and tactical balance in the medium to long term. The only chance Pakistan has is to increase its force multipliers, which means more technology.

PA also needs to make sure that it stamps out corruption within the army in the process. We've seen what happens when corruption is allowed to run rampant via Russia. My fear is that if Pakistan doesn't nip this in the bud, Pakistan's next conflict with India will be a one sided massacre.

I hate to say but I don't see a massive increase in investment if troop numbers fell. The simple answer to this is a better economy, again I've stated the point before playing opportunity cost with numbers never works, the current problems with European forces is a prime example. Their spending is many times greater than Pakistan's as well.
India's population is actually decreasing, their replacement ratio fell to 2 and their median population age is one of the oldest in developing world at 30.
Investment with current troop levels is the way forward, and your point about stemming further increases is a good idea.

Pakistan army is huge considering size, population and economy of both countries

No it's not, the population is 230 million, 34th in landmass, how is 650,000 troops huge?

I don't think this is a 'one man' thing, this is representative of an innovative change in doctrine i would imagine that has been advised from war gaming, theorizing, studying etc.. You don't just do this just because you feel like it, such big changes require a thorough review.

I'm going by previous history and 'one man' things have happened and never come to pass. Anyway none of really know what will actually happen.

 

[R Wing]

Zero dignity. "Little" is only in the eyes of blind fanboys.

 

[That Guy]

I hate to say but I don't see a massive increase in investment if troop numbers fell. The simple answer to this is a better economy, again I've stated the point before playing opportunity cost with numbers never works, the current problems with European forces is a prime example. Their spending is many times greater than Pakistan's as well.
India's population is actually decreasing, their replacement ratio fell to 2 and their median population is age is one of the oldest in developing world at 30.
Investment with current troop levels is the way forward, and your point about stemming further increases is a good idea.



No it's not, the population is 230 million, 34th in landmass, how is 650,000 troops huge?

The Indian population is set to increase to 1.6 billion; even if replacement rate is below 2, the sheer size still makes it so that India can quickly and easily replenish its forces and simply outlast Pakistan.

The 630,000 troop size is not huge, but it's also a misleading figure, as Pakistan has a huge paramilitary force. Pakistan simply doesn't have the economy to keep on adding soldiers. Eventually they'll retire and then Pakistan has to pay their pensions. Even if Pakistan becomes rich all of a sudden, that's still a huge burden which India will 100% exploit. India is trying to do to Pakistan what the US did to the USSR, use its massive population size to out-spend and out-grow Pakistan until Pakistan collapses.

This is why Pakistan investing in tech is better.

 

[SQ8]

That's exactly why this is a good idea.

Pakistan suffers high casualties because it's soldiers aren't even equipped with basic gear that most modern armies use, and still uses cold war equipment that need to be replaced. Body armor and advanced Ballistic helmets are reserved for elite units, as are sights for the weapons that PA uses, night vision still hasn't been rolled out across the entire Pakistani infantry despite previous commitments to do so. Then you have a severe lack of communication devices, which each infantry soldier should be getting. IFV/AFV/MRAPs are also in dire need of purchase.

Also, down sizing could just mean not increasing the current numbers further, which PA has traditionally done every year to match the 1-3 ratio. However, if Pakistan can buy the items I've listed, especially body army, new advanced Ballistic helmets, and sights for infantry rifles, the average infantryman survival rate will increase dramatically.

At this point, Pakistan just cannot keep up by manpower alone. India is increasing its population too quickly to maintain a strategic and tactical balance in the medium to long term. The only chance Pakistan has is to increase its force multipliers, which means more technology.

PA also needs to make sure that it stamps out corruption within the army in the process. We've seen what happens when corruption is allowed to run rampant via Russia. My fear is that if Pakistan doesn't nip this in the bud, Pakistan's next conflict with India will be a one sided massacre.

The assumption that India isn’t downsizing is also false - they too are realizing how their size is impacting modernization efforts.

Equipment and tactics are more important than size. WoT casualties were high because training was sub-par to the requirements of the conflict. Outdated and poorly followed breaching and clearing tactics led to a lot of losses coupled with focus on avoiding civilian casualties.

The Army needs to shed about 1/6th of its troops strength while adding in better equipment and higher standards of training for the non-commissioned.

 

[waz]

The Indian population is set to increase to 1.6 billion; even if replacement rate is below 2, the sheer size still makes it so that India can quickly and easily replenish its forces and simply outlast Pakistan.

The 630,000 troop size is not huge, but it's also a misleading figure, as Pakistan has a huge paramilitary force. Pakistan simply doesn't have the economy to keep on adding soldiers. Eventually they'll retire and then Pakistan had to pay their pensions. Even if Pakistan becomes rich all of a sudden, that's still a huge burden which India will 100% exploit. India is trying to do to Pakistan what the US did to the USSR, use its massive population size to out-spend and out-grow Pakistan until Pakistan collapses.

This is why Pakistan investing in tech is better.

You're forgetting age you can't mobilise a geriatric population to fight....Pakistan has a far younger population and is better able to do this.
Our paramilitary numbers are large but they are the final line.
The Soviets had a failed political and economic system. Pakistan just need to get its act together and the economy will boom.
Of course I agree investing in tech is the way forward.