Civil war in Ukraine: News & discussion

[Superboy]

There are also American special forces in Libya, Iraq, Syria. Doesn't mean America is at war with anyone.

 

[Gabriel92]

Russia - is powerful military machine. It is able to overcome all united Europe.

I'll be very worried if this was the great Red army,it was more modern,and more prepared...


Sorry... but the Russian army is morally obsolete and isn't capable to win the long conflict.
We saw the powerful machine in the little Georgia.... In five days,67 soldiers killed,more than 4 aircrafts downed,3 tanks,20 armored and 20 non armored vehicles destroyed...
Yes you'll say that Putin started to investing in rearmament,but the process of updating of an arsenal of Russia was slowed down by corruption and bad management .
Also,Russian army couldn't pass from draft to contract army.. (It will be a real massacre in a future war..)
The corrupt conscription process of the Russian Federation with it's tactics of abuse destroys moral, increases suicide rates and makes desertion a probable conclusion...
Sorry Vostok,but you have to see the reality....... Russia without nuclear weapons is nothing... and you should say to Putin that Russia isn't and won't be like USSR.
Opps,this isn't the right place to debate about that.
Da Svidanya !

 

[Superboy]

I'll be very worried if this was the great Red army,it was more modern,and more prepared...


Sorry... but the Russian army is morally obsolete and isn't capable to win the long conflict.
We saw the powerful machine in the little Georgia.... In five days,67 soldiers killed,more than 4 aircrafts downed,3 tanks,20 armored and 20 non armored vehicles destroyed...
Yes you'll say that Putin started to investing in rearmament,but the process of updating of an arsenal of Russia was slowed down by corruption and bad management .
Also,Russian army couldn't pass from draft to contract army.. (It will be a real massacre in a future war..)
The corrupt conscription process of the Russian Federation with it's tactics of abuse destroys moral, increases suicide rates and makes desertion a probable conclusion...
Sorry Vostok,but you have to see the reality....... Russia without nuclear weapons is nothing... and you should say to Putin that Russia isn't and won't be like USSR.
Opps,this isn't the right place to debate about that.
Da Svidanya !

Ukrainian military is obsolete. Only has a few Soviet era Su-27 fighter jets. Russia's Su-27 and Su-30 are all upgraded to Su-27SM and Su-30M2 which are as advanced as F-18E. Russia's T-72 tanks are all upgraded to T-72B3 which are as advanced as M1A2.

Georgia isn't exactly a small country. Some 60,000 square kilometers isn't it? Still, Georgia lost to Russia in under a week despite having received arms from Ukraine during the war. Pathetic.

 

[vostok]

I'll be very worried if this was the great Red army,it was more modern,and more prepared...


Sorry... but the Russian army is morally obsolete and isn't capable to win the long conflict.
We saw the powerful machine in the little Georgia.... In five days,67 soldiers killed,more than 4 aircrafts downed,3 tanks,20 armored and 20 non armored vehicles destroyed...
Yes you'll say that Putin started to investing in rearmament,but the process of updating of an arsenal of Russia was slowed down by corruption and bad management .
Also,Russian army couldn't pass from draft to contract army.. (It will be a real massacre in a future war..)
The corrupt conscription process of the Russian Federation with it's tactics of abuse destroys moral, increases suicide rates and makes desertion a probable conclusion...
Sorry Vostok,but you have to see the reality....... Russia without nuclear weapons is nothing... and you should say to Putin that Russia isn't and won't be like USSR.
Opps,this isn't the right place to debate about that.
Da Svidanya !

United States for several years been supplying weapons to Georgia for several years and trained the Georgian army to fight. And Russia crash with them in 5 days. Putin simply did not capture Tbilisi, while the Georgian army was no longer resisted.
I remember some great armies of history that underestimated the Russian army - they all are buried in our fields.
You should also understand that the Junta troops in Donbass - are occupiers, not the owners. The local population does not support them. But strongly supports Russia and New Russia.
Ukrainian army - it is now even in worse shape than it was Georgian one. To this should be added the total corruption at all levels.
In Crimea, about 90% of the Ukrainian Armed Forces took the side of Russia. In Donbas would be the same, if Putin decided to send troops.
Gabrielle, sorry, but Europe does not even a subject of politics - just an object. You are colonies of USA. Russia would crush your toys armies in a couple of weeks - because you will not resist, as Europe did not resist to Hitler.

 

[Superboy]

Let's not forget, Gabriel, Russia can finance an independence movement in French Guiana. France should give the land back to the natives of South America, or there will be trouble

 

[Gabriel92]

@vostok The Russian army is composed of old tanks,old artillery and not well trained soldiers and also doesn't have good tactics... (they're still using the soviet tactic,which is obsolete today...),also doesn't have good officers,just some corrupt men who are stealing the money for the army.....
Luckily i don't live in MotherRussia,because Putin will send his men to beat me up,because i say the truth..
Right now,the military victory is made by technology,better tactics,well trained soldiers,not by mass soldiers and tanks.. as it used to be 40 yeas ago....

And Russia crash with them in 5 days

This was Georgia.... a little country with a little army,and if i'm not wrong you see that war as a total succes ?

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Also,we'll see in the winter what Russia or "novorossia" will do..
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I also always wondered,why all Russians are saying that Ukrainians are nazi,facists etc... this is the chaos...
But now,i know..
You should see this document.

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Let's not forget, Gabriel, Russia can finance an independence movement in French Guiana. France should give the land back to the natives of South America, or there will be trouble

 

[Superboy]

@vostok The Russian army is composed of old tanks,old artillery and not well trained soldiers and also doesn't have good tactics... (they're still using the soviet tactic,which is obsolete today...),also doesn't have good officers,just some corrupt men who are stealing the money for the army.....
Luckily i don't live in MotherRussia,because Putin will send his men to beat me up,because i say the truth..
Right now,the military victory is made by technology,better tactics,well trained soldiers,not by mass soldiers and tanks.. as it used to be 40 yeas ago....



This was Georgia.... a little country with a little army,and if i'm not wrong you see that war as a total succes ?

----------

Also,we'll see in the winter what Russia or "novorossia" will do..
---------------

I also always wondered,why all Russians are saying that Ukrainians are nazi,facists etc... this is the chaos...
But now,i know..
You should see this document.

--------------

Georgia lost Abkhazia and South Ossetia, in total some 20 to 25 percent of Georgia's territory. That was a pretty bad loss for Georgia. By comparison, Ukraine is only some 3.5 percent of Russia's territory and Crimea is only some 4.5% of Ukraine's territory.

As for the record, it is FATHER Russia, not mother Russia. Russia is the world's biggest and most powerful country at over 17 million square kilometers. That's bigger than Antarctica. Bigger than Europe.

 

[vostok]

@vostok The Russian army is composed of old tanks,old artillery and not well trained soldiers and also doesn't have good tactics... (they're still using the soviet tactic,which is obsolete today...),also doesn't have good officers,just some corrupt men who are stealing the money for the army.....
Luckily i don't live in MotherRussia,because Putin will send his men to beat me up,because i say the truth..
Right now,the military victory is made by technology,better tactics,well trained soldiers,not by mass soldiers and tanks.. as it used to be 40 yeas ago....



This was Georgia.... a little country with a little army,and if i'm not wrong you see that war as a total succes ?

----------

Also,we'll see in the winter what Russia or "novorossia" will do..
---------------

I also always wondered,why all Russians are saying that Ukrainians are nazi,facists etc... this is the chaos...
But now,i know..
You should see this document.

--------------

Nobody calls Ukrainians "Nazis". "Nazis" is called only real Nazis - the followers of Bandera, Western-Ukrainian minion of Hitler.
Number of new and full modernized equipment in the Russian army - 40%. It's thousands and thousands of units of technics.
When did the armies of Europe in the last time carry military exercises with hundreds of thousands of soldiers and tens of thousands of units of land and avia technics? Will you be able to counter full scale attack in the spirit of Hitler's Blitzkrieg? Nope, you will not.. Your armies - something between Colonial corpus and anti-terrorist unitt. You can fight with African countries (not very succesfull thou), but you can do nothing to stop real army.
I'm not talking about the thousands of tactical (not to mention strategic one) nuclear weapons, which will not leave you a single chance.
Gabrielle, you, like many in the West misunderstands the situation. Half of the population of Ukraine really want reunification of Ukraine and Russia. From the 9th century until 1991, we were one state (except for about 200 years of Polish occupation of South-West of Russia). Until 1917 Little Russian (named "Ukrainian" by Bolsheviks) language was considered a dialect of the Russian language, and Little Russians - one of the three branches of the Russian people (along with the Great Russians and White Russians).
The border between Ukraine and Russia - the same nonsense as if someone line a border between France and Burgundy or France and Normandy. (Although Normandy and Burgundy were really independent states, and Ukraine - never)
Russia has every right helps the residents of Ukraine. About 40% of Russian citizens have close relatives in Ukraine and about 50% of Ukrainian citizens have close relatives in Russia.

 

[Gabriel92]

Probaby you,but when i see Russians talking about Ukraine,they're always saying that they are facists,nazis,they wan to kill all pro-Russians....
Your army can't win against professionnal/motived/well trained and equipped soldiers,who have good tactics,you,in the East you still think that the Russian army can invade Europe in 3 days,and this is the red army... poor you!
And... please don't joke,in 2009 90% of the material of the Russian army was obsolete,and you think that in 4 years,now 40% are modern... (The modernisation process has been slowed down by the corruption and bad managments. )

(I found to you a russian source,but the article is in French...)

"Only 10% of Russian arms and military equipment correspond to modern requirements"

La difficile réforme de l'armée russe | Opinions | RIA Novosti

You also have to understand that the old tactics don't work today...
The Russian army is nothing without nuclear weapons,also Russia is nothing without oil,without oil Russia will be like Congo,and this is an insult to Congo...
The oil price par barel is at 66$,you'll collapse soon,trust me,with the sanctions it's even worse...
We'll put Putin on his knees.
Putin is nothing. (Probably a little bit better than F.Hollande,but nothing.)
(What he thinks he is....)

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Your armies - something between Colonial corpus and anti-terrorist unitt. You can fight with African countries (not very succesfull thou),

Not succesfull,the last war we fought was agains terrorists in Mali. (asymetric war,generally,there are a lot of casualties....)
The terrorists were haf to take the capital (Bamako),in one week we literally smached them.....
4.000 French soldiers against more than 10.000 terrorists... (They were equipped with manpads,artillery,anti aircrafts guns... captured from Libya..)
9 soldiers were killed (1 in accident,so 8) by the terrorists,and more than 1.000 terrorists have been killed,300 captured,50 vehicles destroyed,60 IEDs defused,the rest of the terrorists ran away (1 french soldier : more than 100 terrorists.)
Also,when i see how the Russian army gets slaughtered everyear in Daghestan,Chechnya,i ask myself some questions...

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Russians are really hypocrite,they support the independance of "novorossia",but what happened when Chechens wanted to become independant...
----------------------------------

So back to the topic.

Russian uav downed by Ukrainians

 

[vostok]

Probaby you,but when i see Russians talking about Ukraine,they're always saying that they are facists,nazis,they wan to kill all pro-Russians....
Your army can't win against professionnal/motived/well trained and equipped soldiers,who have good tactics,you,in the East you still think that the Russian army can invade Europe in 3 days,and this is the red army... poor you!
And... please don't joke,in 2009 90% of the material of the Russian army was obsolete,and you think that in 4 years,now 40% are modern... (The modernisation process has been slowed down by the corruption and bad managments. )

(I found to you a russian source,but the article is in French...)



La difficile réforme de l'armée russe | Opinions | RIA Novosti

You also have to understand that the old tactics don't work today...
The Russian army is nothing without nuclear weapons,also Russia is nothing without oil,without oil Russia will be like Congo,and this is an insult to Congo...
The oil price par barel is at 66$,you'll collapse soon,trust me,with the sanctions it's even worse...
We'll put Putin on his knees.
Putin is nothing. (Probably a little bit better than F.Hollande,but nothing.)
(What he thinks he is....)

-----------------------------------



Not succesfull,the last war we fought was agains terrorists in Mali. (asymetric war,generally,there are a lot of casualties....)
The terrorists were haf to take the capital (Bamako),in one week we literally smached them.....
4.000 French soldiers against more than 10.000 terrorists... (They were equipped with manpads,artillery,anti aircrafts guns... captured from Libya..)
9 soldiers were killed (1 in accident,so 8) by the terrorists,and more than 1.000 terrorists have been killed,300 captured,50 vehicles destroyed,60 IEDs defused,the rest of the terrorists ran away (1 french soldier : more than 100 terrorists.)
Also,when i see how the Russian army gets slaughtered everyear in Daghestan,Chechnya,i ask myself some questions...

----------------------------------------------------------------

Russians are really hypocrite,they support the independance of "novorossia",but what happened when Chechens wanted to become independant...
----------------------------------

So back to the topic.

Russian uav downed by Ukrainians

You could not even win pour guy Gaddafi - you just ran out of ammunition and had to call the Daddy - US .
You may not believe it, but since 2009, much has changed. Russia has become the world's third defense spending.
Минобороны: Доля современного оружия в войсках превысила 40%
 ВЗГЛЯД / Минобороны: Доля современного оружия в войсках превысила 40%
The plants working, the state pays money, so Army was able to achieve 40% number in 2014, not in 2016.
About drone - I told you once said that a number of Russian intelligence, instructors and advisors are in New Russia. It's not secret. NATO intelligence officers and instructors there too, you can be sure.
About Chechnya - no one has ever held a referendum on independence there. At the same time in the Crimea and the New Russia such referendums were held with a completely unambiguous results. And I tell you once again - at least half of Ukraine wants to be a part of Russia. The USSR, the Russian Empire, Kievan Rus - it was our history. They stole our true history after 1991. 3 of the seven Party General Secretaries were originally from the Ukraine.
Who told you that the Russian military are ill-prepared? We, unlike you, has our own navigation system, complete radar coverage.
In recent years, was carried out hundreds military trainings of all scales. You can only watch in movies such a big war games (exept naval games with USA). When it comes to large-scale war, you will not even know how to react. Our missiles will erase you to dust in a few hours.

 

[Gabriel92]

@vostok Vosty lol,stop the propaganda...
I work in the army,you won't teach me anything new,i have some friends in the air force,one of them participated in the operation Harmattan,and they didn't ran out of ammunitions....
And ? So,doing 1 great exercise 1 time in 20 years means that you're well prepared ? You should train your troops a lot in 1 months.
It will be very hard to you to afford the modernisation plan,even your finance minister says that Russia can't afford military spending plan,how will you do,while our sanctions will be much harder,and the price of oil is failing. ?
Ok,but how many % of the funds for miitary are in generas,politics pockets ?
(66$/barel,it's time to vlady to cut the budgets..)

Finance minister warns Russia can't afford military spending plan| Reuters

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Russian army T72B3 captured by the Ukrainian army,now under Ukrainian hands.

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Comparison: Funerals of Ukrainian Heroes and Russian Soldiers Killed in Donbas

 

[Superboy]

Vosty lol,stop the propaganda...
I work in the army,you won't teach me anything new,i have some friends in the air force,one of them participated in the operation Harmattan,and they didn't ran out of ammunitions....
And ? So,doing 1 great exercise 1 time in 20 years means that you're well prepared ? You should train your troops a lot in 1 months.
It will be very hard to you to afford the modernisation plan,even your finance minister says that Russia can't afford military spending plan,how will you do,while our sanctions will be much harder,and the price of oil is failing. ?
Ok,but how many % of the funds for miitary are in generas,politics pockets ?
(66$/barel,it's time to vlady to cut the budgets..)

Finance minister warns Russia can't afford military spending plan| Reuters

----------------------------

Russian army T72B3 captured by the Ukrainian army,now under Ukrainian hands.

----------------------------
Comparison: Funerals of Ukrainian Heroes and Russian Soldiers Killed in Donbas

Tanks are nothing but steel coffins these days. Without air power, Ukraine can't do anything about ATGM teams which snipe tanks from up to 4 kilometers away. With every tank blown up, 3 soldiers die.

 

[Otocal]

Russian T-72's will simply roll over the gassed T-80's

 

[nangyale]

@Gabriel92
It seems like you have been hooked on the idiot box for too long, looking at the ukie propaganda videos you have been spreading.

The $66 a barrel of oil has more to do with Saudi foreign policy for the short term, it can't be sustained for long. The overall global appetite for oil is increasing that means sooner rather than later oil prices have to increase as well. It's a simple arithmetic of supply and demand.

 

[nangyale]

Also when you are talking about sanctions and it's affect on the Russian economy have you given a thought to the French economy, the last time I checked it wasn't in great shape either.