CIA declassified documents Air War 1971 - PAF v IAF

[Jackdaws]

Err... no


Your forces were ineffective.

your army was applying straight jacket tactics against a nibble and fast adapting NLI that was able coordinate accurate artillery strikes against all assaults. It so bad for the IA that Pakistani soldiers used to bet with each other on how many Indian soldiers they were planning to kill each day.

your airforce was all show and no go. Laser guided bombs in a steep and unstable weather conditions together with sub standard training of IAF pilots meant that for 11+ weeks they had little or no impact.


In end it was your politicans that saved your sorry arse military. Ie via Americans forced PA to withdraw. This is a fact as US Zinni who brokered the negotiations with Gen Musharraf stated on record.

of course foolish the Indians never learned their lesson.

The poor accuracy of IAF was never really addressed so 20 years later on balkot we saw poor standard of IAF bombing exposed so cruelly on 26 feb ....

Lol @ nibble and fast adapting NLI. That's why Sartaz Aziz made a beeline to India first only to be shown the door. And your PM ran to Clinton to stop the pounding from the Bofors and the Air Force. Where was your air force then?

 

[PradoTLC]

Lol @ nibble and fast adapting NLI. That's why Sartaz Aziz made a beeline to India first only to be shown the door. And your PM ran to Clinton to stop the pounding from the Bofors and the Air Force. Where was your air force then?

if you are going to quote your government fed lies go ahead. you are after all an indian..

but then reality sets on you.

> why did we take 11 weeks? and ended after Zinni's visit?
> why were our casualties so high?
> why cant our airforce bomb straight ?
> what happened on 27 Feb? why could we (ii.e ENDians) not retaliate?

and so on..

> on NS : Yes went to US bcos he cant handle pressure, Gen Musharaf told him correctly there nothing worry as the ground was 100% in our favour. In contrast the same kinds of pressure was on Imran Khan not "escalate" ... but he ignored the it.
> Indian were working behind to pressure pakistan via USA. Read Barkha Dutt's book

Lol @ nibble and fast adapting NLI

Yes... they gave you a hell of a pounding and even today you never forgot.

 

[Jackdaws]

if you are going to quote your government fed lies go ahead. you are after all an indian..

but then reality sets on you.

> why did we take 11 weeks? and ended after Zinni's visit?
> why were our casualties so high?
> why cant our airforce bomb straight ?
> what happened on 27 Feb? why could we (ii.e ENDians) not retaliate?

and so on..

> on NS : Yes went to US bcos he cant handle pressure, Gen Musharaf told him correctly there nothing worry as the ground was 100% in our favour. In contrast the same kinds of pressure was on Imran Khan not "escalate" ... but he ignored the it.
> Indian were working behind to pressure pakistan via USA. Read Barkha Dutt's book




Yes... they gave you a hell of a pounding and even today you never forgot.

Sure sure. Mushy could do a coup and depose him but couldn't stop him from going to the US seeking an exit from Kargil. RIP Logic.

 

[PradoTLC]

Sure sure. Mushy could do a coup and depose him but couldn't stop him from going to the US seeking an exit from Kargil. RIP Logic.

surely you clearly have no analytical capability

keep thinking your airforce is good.. that cant some how cant shoot straight or your army that looses 44 men to a single freedom fighter..or that it takes more than 2 months to "take" few peeks....

i wont even start on Panwalma

 

[Jackdaws]

surely you clearly have no analytical capability

keep thinking your airforce is good.. that cant some how cant shoot straight or your army that looses 44 men to a single freedom fighter..that more than 2 months to take few peeks....

i wont even start on Panwalma

Stop frothing at the mouth when facts are pointed out. Your claim is based on utter nonsense. That your Army Chief can depose your PM in a coup but lets the same PM fly to Clinton to save face and exit from a war you were losing.
Now go actually read Zinni's account where he states it was Mushy who asked your PM to rush to Clinton.

Or you can live in your make believe world.

 

[PradoTLC]

Stop frothing at the mouth when facts are pointed out.

u seem upset?... understandable as hard facts are hard to ignore.

Your claim is based on utter nonsense.

no. Just facts.

hat your Army Chief can depose your PM in a coup but lets the same PM fly to Clinton to save face and exit from a war you were losing.

you clearly didnt understand the reasons for the coup... of course you dont . You as indian dont do any research.

Now go actually read Zinni's account where he states it was Mushy who asked your PM to rush to Clinton.

interesting BS.. back it up.

Or you can live in your make believe world.

coming from indian this is funny.

i hope u can read....


"Clinton persuaded Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to withdraw his troops from territory seized by Pakistan in the spring of 1999"



https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...p-to-india-trump-contemplates-one-of-his-own/





General admits US sought Kargil withdrawal

​

General Anthony Zinni, commander of the US central command, has acknowledged that his country had, to an extent, persuaded Pakistan to pull back from Kargil during last year's conflict and stop supporting militants in Kashmir.

https://inwww.rediff.com/us/2000/jun/21us.htm

 

[PradoTLC]

Bharat Rakshak admits for 57 IAF losses to enemy action. These do not include Helos or OP aircraft. 18 in A2A - including

9 x Hunters
4 x Su-7s
1 x Canberra
1 x Alize
1 x Gnat
1 x MiG-21

37 to AAA (10 in East, 27 in West). 1 x Vampire and 1 x HF-24 lost on ground to en A2G.

Indian claims are always dubious... for decades they never admitted the loss of mig21 on the ground in 1965....PAF as usual was proven accurate

 

[Danish saleem]

1971 was lost not due to military but due to lack of political interest.
The only thing Bhutto was interested in was becoming the ruler of whatever is left of Pakistan.
He was the bigger traitor as he also arrested and jailed Mujeeb who was in favour of autonomy but not total separation.

Before commenting, just read the Hamud ur Rehman commission report first. we have to accept our defeat. but unfortunately we haven't learn any thing. not a single officer held accountable for that defeat. lack of Political will , led to disaster. instead of blaming others we should correct our house first. . we need to correct several thing. Powers without accountability is the only reason. its a tragedy of Pakistan that Grade 22 Officers setting and deciding the Fate of 220 Million people.

 

[Safriz]

Before commenting, just read the Hamud ur Rehman commission report first. we have to accept our defeat. but unfortunately we haven't learn any thing. not a single officer held accountable for that defeat. lack of Political will , led to disaster. instead of blaming others we should correct our house first. . we need to correct several thing. Powers without accountability is the only reason. its a tragedy of Pakistan that Grade 22 Officers setting and deciding the Fate of 220 Million people.

Fuk the report. You guys have no Idea.
You just rely on some PPP funded report which was orchestrated to keep "Bhutto Zinda".
Ghulam Mustafa Khar destroyed all the tapes of Mujeeb interviews at Mianwali jail.
If Bhutto hadn't done what he did, all that bloodshed could be avoided..

 

[Danish saleem]

Fuk the report. You guys have no Idea.
You just rely on some PPP funded report which was orchestrated to keep "Bhutto Zinda".
Ghulam Mustafa Khar destroyed all the tapes of Mujeeb interviews at Mianwali jail.
If Bhutto hadn't done what he did, all that bloodshed could be avoided..

ok! please name one Officer who held accountable after Dhaka Fall? i accept your version

 

[Safriz]

ok! please name one Officer who held accountable after Dhaka Fall? i accept your version

General Niazi did a great job by making a deal with Indian COA and save 93000 lives. All of whom may have been killed for a worthless cause.
Bhutto didn't give a hoot if Bangladesh stayed with Pakistan or left, , the only thing he was interested in was to become president of Pakistan and rule whatever is left of Pakistan.
Army was left on their own devices.
Even if they had won Bangladesh, Bhutto would still had not made any efforts to consolidate with them.
You kids shoot from your hips without any ground knowledge.

 

[Danish saleem]

General Niazi did a great job by making a deal with Indian COA and save 93000 lives. All of whom may have been killed for a worthless cause.
Bhutto didn't give a hoot if Bangladesh stayed with Pakistan or left, , the only thing he was interested in was to become president of Pakistan and rule whatever is left of Pakistan.
Army was left on their own devices.
Even if they had won Bangladesh, Bhutto would still had not made any efforts to consolidate with them.
You kids shoot from your hips without any ground knowledge.

Niazi did a great job by surrendering with 93000 soldiers! may i know what office Bhutto holding in 1971 before Partition?

 

[Safriz]

Niazi did a great job by surrendering with 93000 soldiers! may i know what office Bhutto holding in 1971 before Partition?

It doesn't matter. After winning the election he was running the show and Yehya was helpless.

 

[PradoTLC]

Fuk the report. You guys have no Idea.
You just rely on some PPP funded report which was orchestrated to keep "Bhutto Zinda".
Ghulam Mustafa Khar destroyed all the tapes of Mujeeb interviews at Mianwali jail.
If Bhutto hadn't done what he did, all that bloodshed could be avoided..

correct Bhutto was the main prime planners in the 1971 debacle... his refusal to accept Rehman's election victory was the main cause of the mutiny... or more accurately it blew things over to the point no return.

Niazi did a great job by surrendering with 93000 soldiers! may i know what office Bhutto holding in 1971 before Partition?

93K soldiers?.. who told you that?... it was 45K , the rest for civilian.

dont spread non sense.

General Niazi did a great job by making a deal with Indian COA and save 93000 lives. All of whom may have been killed for a worthless cause.
Bhutto didn't give a hoot if Bangladesh stayed with Pakistan or left, , the only thing he was interested in was to become president of Pakistan and rule whatever is left of Pakistan.
Army was left on their own devices.
Even if they had won Bangladesh, Bhutto would still had not made any efforts to consolidate with them.
You kids shoot from your hips without any ground knowledge.

ok! please name one Officer who held accountable after Dhaka Fall? i accept your version

Please name one civilian accountable?..

 

[SecularNationalist]

1971 was just a political failure .
Militarily we actually outperformed given the way less resources we had in comparison with Indian army.
That's the reason indians always bring this topic of 1971 war when they lost argument or to hide their shame. Their biggest shame is that a 7 times smaller nations gave them a very hard time in 1948,1965,1999 and 2019.
The lessons of us pakistanis is that the real owners of pakistan be it soldiers ,hardworking civilians etc do not compromise when it comes to saving Pakistan . But unfortunately the few ruling elites and corrupt politicians of this country always let us down and embarrassed us.We need to identify and declare them as enemies of the nation and should be treated similarly like we treat indians.
But in recent years the military and civil political leadership is on the same page ,there is no way a thing like 1971 can ever happen again.On top of that the pakistani military is far better trained and battle hardened given we are fighting since the Soviet war in Afghanistan. As far as the conventional warfare goes I will not be surprised in the next complete all out war India losing big chunks of it's land.