CIA declassified documents Air War 1971 - PAF v IAF

[PradoTLC]

factually incorrect.
no Pakistani trainers in iran.
And Pakistan is training the Iraqi airforce

bozo




no pakistani trainier in iran?... what does that mean?. the report is from CIA... you a sub par poster seems to know more than CIA??....

interesting

PAF only trained Iraqi AF for mirages.... but it seems they didnt learn much... as a USAF General noted.

 

[Jackdaws]

Why refute if they accept Kashmir was ours before the war.

Because it simply wasn't. Was a free nation like Sikkim, Bhutan or Nepal which was unilaterally invaded by Pakistan. So the same people who are now cribbing about a "free Kashmir" are the ones who invaded an actual free Kashmir

 

[PradoTLC]

Because it simply wasn't. Was a free nation like Sikkim, Bhutan or Nepal which was unilaterally invaded by Pakistan. So the same people who are now cribbing about a "free Kashmir" are the ones who invaded an actual free Kashmir

Kashmir wasnt free.. a hindu ruler horrible by all accounts.

 

[Jackdaws]

who invited Christine Fair in India?
has she changed her mind to suit indian fantasy yet?

She is a Professor in Georgetown. No, in India diverse views are welcome.

Kashmir wasnt free.. a hindu ruler horrible by all accounts.

So what? Horrible or not, that was something for the international community to sort out. Not Pakistan. It was a free nation.

I like how you completely dodged my question and again mentioned the person who probably has more credibility worldwide than all of the Indian media combined as the issue. Invited by Pakistan or not, she’s a pentagon press correspondent. Not an Indian Or Pakistani journalist. On the other hand you tout foreign journalists payed by india as their words were those of god. Nice try mate, but you will always fall flat on your face. Delusion will remain delusion, lies will remain lies, a failure will remain a failure, an Indian will remain an Indian.
Where’s your proof of the DoDs press release? Where’s a single shred of evidence apart from the ones your Air Force drew on MS paint.

Lol. Please show me the DoD press release which states all the planes were safe.
Funny you say that because India's 3 journalists from Kashmir just won a Pulitzer. So we know whose media is credible and whose is not.

Any media outlet can have "Pentagon correspondent". Even Fox News has one. That doesn't mean the news is actually coming out of the Pentagon. If you have any statement from actually an American Govt agency that contradicts the DoD statement that came in the Indian press, feel free to post it.

 

[HSFA]

without supporting our army or ISI Kashmiri freedom not done.
Please use our youngman who still jobless or poor / it's our first option
secondly use us to start jihad ASAP but due to our policy not openly,,Agreed
I request you to all muslim not living their Lives according to sunnah since when you stop jihad effects
So I request you to all muslim see the drama Ertugrul Ghazi

 

[iLION12345_1]

She is a Professor in Georgetown. No, in India diverse views are welcome.


So what? Horrible or not, that was something for the international community to sort out. Not Pakistan. It was a free nation.


Lol. Please show me the DoD press release which states all the planes were safe.
Funny you say that because India's 3 journalists from Kashmir just won a Pulitzer. So we know whose media is credible and whose is not.

Any media outlet can have "Pentagon correspondent". Even Fox News has one. That doesn't mean the news is actually coming out of the Pentagon. If you have any statement from actually an American Govt agency that contradicts the DoD statement that came in the Indian press, feel free to post it.

Every time you speak your arguments fall flat so hard I can hear them all the way in Pakistan. Have you ever seen how your own media reports, only you can look at that and call it credible, amazing.
What does a Pulitzer Prize prove? Pakistanis have won that multiple times in the past. And by the way, did you know the Indian journos got it for reporting on how the Kashmiris were fighting against India and wanted freedom? I’m as happy for them as you are bud.
Yet again you Completely ignore my question and bring in useless counter arguments.
Where is your proof of any single thing you’ve mentioned so far? Or is this question going to be ignored too. Also where is the proof that the DoD report in the Indian press was actually from the US DoD? Nowhere. None of them have it. Because they stuck a hand up your *** and pulled it out of there.
I can’t believe this is how you spend your time…then again you probably don’t have anything better to do anyways. The desperation remains strong and the lies remain lies. But I’m done wasting my time here. The world saw what it needed

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Every time you speak your arguments fall flat so hard I can hear them all the way in Pakistan. Have you ever seen how your own media reports, only you can look at that and call it credible, amazing.
What does a Pulitzer Prize prove? Pakistanis have won that multiple times in the past. And by the way, did you know the Indian journos got it for reporting on how the Kashmiris were fighting against India and wanted freedom? I’m as happy for them as you are bud.
Yet again you Completely ignore my question and bring in useless counter arguments.
Where is your proof of any single thing you’ve mentioned so far? Or is this question going to be ignored too. Also where is the proof that the DoD report in the Indian press was actually from the US DoD? Nowhere. None of them have it. Because they stuck a hand up your *** and pulled it out of there.
I can’t believe this is how you spend your time…then again you probably don’t have anything better to do anyways. The desperation remains strong and the lies remain lies. But I’m done wasting my time here. The world saw what it needed

indians NEVER ever seem to have ANY credible or genuine proof for what they say as most of it is just outright lies and fantasies. Remember indians are the masters and biggest purveyors of propaganda and FAKE NEWS on the entire planet. In fact they have entire government organisations dedicated to only spreading lies and propaganda against Pakistan:


https://thenextweb.com/security/201...ites-caught-pushing-anti-pakistan-propaganda/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-50749764

 

[Jackdaws]

Every time you speak your arguments fall flat so hard I can hear them all the way in Pakistan. Have you ever seen how your own media reports, only you can look at that and call it credible, amazing.
What does a Pulitzer Prize prove? Pakistanis have won that multiple times in the past. And by the way, did you know the Indian journos got it for reporting on how the Kashmiris were fighting against India and wanted freedom? I’m as happy for them as you are bud.
Yet again you Completely ignore my question and bring in useless counter arguments.
Where is your proof of any single thing you’ve mentioned so far? Or is this question going to be ignored too. Also where is the proof that the DoD report in the Indian press was actually from the US DoD? Nowhere. None of them have it. Because they stuck a hand up your *** and pulled it out of there.
I can’t believe this is how you spend your time…then again you probably don’t have anything better to do anyways. The desperation remains strong and the lies remain lies. But I’m done wasting my time here. The world saw what it needed

Yawn. That's a long rant. Doesn't prove anything though.

 

[LeGenD]

One thing is certain; PAF have been more capable force than IAF throughout. Quality pilots do not disappoint.

Pakistan needs to fix its economy nevertheless. Strong economy enable many possibilities and prospects for the defense aspect and otherwise.

 

[doorstar]

IAF seems to train no one.. or more accurately no body wants to be trained by IAF except Iraqis...

shonardesh don't need IAF for obvious reasons but they do have dozens of military advisors (or viceroys?) in BD as well as over 1k in Afghanistan

you a sub par poster seems to know more than CIA??....

yeah, how dare he! CIA will never lie, it always tells the Gospel Truth. will never want to manipulate GCC and try to turn it against Pakistan for it loves Pakistan so much. and of course Pakistan will send trainers to Iran (because it has a death-wish)

 

[PradoTLC]

CIA will never lie,

It is an internal report declassified.

why would lie to it's self. they are not indians.

and of course Pakistan will send trainers to Iran (because it has a death-wish)

There was lot airforce cooperation between the two countries .. even during the 1990s and 2000s as i recall 7 iranian service were killed when their PAF van was ambushed

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

Not sure if this was ever covered.. but here is what the CIA thinks the airwar balance of losses


PAF always seems to get the better of IAF

1965 on top
1971 - seems mixed but given odds very good
2019 - total ownage





View attachment 629527


https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85T00875R001100030003-0.pdf

PAF's own Kaiser Tufail admitted in his book, of the 55 IAF aircraft lost to enemy fire only 17-18 were in air combat and only two losses were on ground, rest were all due to AAA.
Of the 18 IAF aircraft lost in air combat only 10 were fighters {rest were 5 Su-7 (no dogfight ability), 1 canberra bomber & 2 helo/ultralight}.
@TF141

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

PAF's own Kaiser Rufail admitted in his book, of the 55 IAF aircraft lost to enemy fire only 17-18 were in air combat and only two losses were on ground, rest were all die to AAA.
Of the 18 IAF aircraft lost in air combat only 10 were fighters {rest were 5 Su-7 (no dogfight ability), 1 canberra bomber & 2 helo/ultralight}.

Can you provide a link to the evidence which confirms the above claims?

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

but what i found interesting... IAF seems to train no one.. or more accurately no body wants to be trained by IAF except Iraqis...






View attachment 629526

EPIC FAIL.
Your list proves except muslim majority countries, no other nations were interested in training by PAF.

Only 3 F.6 aircraft were lost.
One shot down by AAA which Flt.Lt Shahid KIA.
Another shot down by Su.7 Fitter in a pot shot,the pilot a Flt.LT ejected over home base.
Last one was a fratricide in which Wing Commander Saad Hatmi accidentally shot down his wingman in poor light using a sidewinder,he was KIA.

Another F-6 was also shot down by AAA on 7 Dec 71 over Marala, pilot Flt Lt Wajid Ali Khan was taken POW.

Can you provide a link to the evidence which confirms the above claims?

Buy Kaiser Tufails book released in 2017.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

EPIC FAIL.
Your list proves except muslim majority countries, no other nations were interested in training by PAF.


Another F-6 was also shot down by AAA on 7 Dec 71 over Marala, pilot Flt Lt Wajid Ali Khan was taken POW.


Buy Kaiser Tufails book released in 2017.

As you are the one making those claims, IF what you say is true then it is YOUR responsibility to present the credible evidence that supports those claims.