Egypt was the military leader of the Arabic worlds in 1950s-1980s, so do not belittle them though they have problems with their economics at the moment. Saudi and UAE may have influence on Egypt but I don't think they can command them.
Chinese Weapon Exports
- Thread starter cnleio
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Yup! They cut off funding for Egypt and who shall fold up first. And who is the real leader. In this world, money talks.
Precisely, that is the nightmare China would not want to see which is the reason why JF-17 dual seat is delay for so long. JF-17 Is share project which profits need to be shared. While L-15 is a project solely own by China and also means profit will solely goes to China.
By the fastest time line of dual seat JF-17 goes into service in 3 years time. L-15 Will have secured most of its possible customer order. Leaving very little chance of export of JF-17.
Think about it, L-15 is just a completed project from last year and has already secured 2 foreign customers of Venezuela and Zambia, with more to come.
While JF-17 project, a product enter service 4 years ago in PAF which yet to secure a foreign order. JF-17 Will remain mainly a Pakistan project with the blessing from China.
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It was Saudi who want to get support from Egypt against Qatar and offered the funding but not Egypt asked for, do you understand the difference?
How could L-15 secure most of its possible customer in 3 years, as different countries have planes in different ages? On the other hand, L-15 is a trainer but JF-17 dual seat is a fighter trainer as F-16D and J-10S, and they are not interchangeable.
let us remember old news
AVIC Allow to Foreign Production of L-15s
21 November 2009
Avic Open To Local Manufacturing Of L-15s
Avic Defense, adopting an increasingly Western approach to military aircraft sales, says it is willing to allow foreign production of its latest export product, the L-15 Falcon supersonic trainer.
The aircraft is likely to retain the key advantage of an aircraft from a developing country, however, since the manufacturer is also suggesting it will be cheaply priced.
The L-15 is joining a crowded market as one of four trainers with the high flight performance needed for direct pilot transition to the most advanced fighters. Other players in the field are the Korea Aerospace T-50, Yakovlev Yak-130 and Alenia M-346.
The M-346 is a derivative of the Yak-130, while the L-15 resembles the Russian aircraft and was developed with help from Yakovlev.
Avic Defense’s trainer business, Hongdu Aviation of Nanchang, has already had considerable success in allowing a customer to set up a separate production line. Its JL-8 (or K-8) subsonic jet trainer has been assembled in Egypt as part of an order for 120.
But the willingness of Avic Defense to allow foreign assembly of the L-15 is more surprising, since the company has not yet put the Falcon into large-scale production at home. Moreover, manufacturers in up-and-coming aircraft industries, far more than most Western competitors, are usually highly protective of their home production lines.
“Because the L-15 has been developed and made in China, we are very competitive in price,” says Avic Defense President Wang Yawei, also asserting that the aircraft’s performance is at least comparable with that of its competitors.
Five L-15s have been built so far, Wang told Aviation Week during an interview in the company’s offices in central Beijing. One of the five is slated to be at the Dubai Airshow to perform the type’s first foreign flight demonstration. Despite skepticism in some aerospace companies about the value of air-show flight displays, Avic Defense feels they can bring great success after its experience with the Egyptian order.
Export sales may be particularly crucial for the L-15, since it is not assured of large-scale domestic sales. The Chinese air force could instead buy the JL-9, a massively modified derivative of the MiG-21, as its supersonic trainer.
The JL-9, also called the FTC-2000, is a product of the Guizhou Aircraft subsidiary of Avic General Aircraft.
Aerodynamically, the L-15 features prominent leading-edge extensions that help it to emulate the extreme maneuverability of the latest fighters. The flight control system is digitally commanded.
As to the similarity to the Yak-130, “the development of the L-15 was primarily based on the results of domestic technology research,” says Wang.
“[But] in seeking to catch up with the mainstream development of such advanced trainers, we proceeded with international cooperation in certain areas, benefiting from our long-term relationships. We cooperated with international partners on aerodynamic design and testing.”
In the development of the latest-generation trainers, such cooperation has inevitably resulted in an interchange of ideas and the partners learning from each other, says Wang. “So the similar characteristics of these similar products simply reflect technological cooperation and the requirements of the market.”
Avic Defense specializes in fighters, trainers, drones and missiles, although it also has considerable nonmilitary and even nonaeronautic activities. Its key factories are the combat aircraft plants at Chengdu and Shenyang, Hongdu Aircraft, the missile facilities at Luoyang and three maintenance businesses.
The J-10 is the latest fighter from Chengdu to enter service, although a successor is close to flight testing.
Despite reports of an imminent sale to Pakistan, Wang plays down the immediate potential of the J-10 (or Jian-10) as an export product, because Avic Defense is too busy filling domestic orders.
“The J-10 is one of the major fighter aircraft for the Chinese air force,” he stresses. “The main responsibility of our facilities is to operate at full load to provide this advanced military aviation equipment to the Chinese air force. Whether the J-10 will be offered in the international market will be decided in the future.”
China has agreed to sell 36 J-10s to Pakistan, the Financial Times and Pakistan’s Daily Times quote unnamed Pakistani officials as saying. Wang told Aviation Week he has not heard of such reports.
For the moment, the company is promoting export sales of its FC-1 Xiaolong (or JF-17 Thunder), which it says is of the same technology generation as the J-10. The FC-1 has been jointly developed with Pakistan.
Separately, details of Shenyang’s F-8T, the latest version of another Avic Defense product, have been revealed. The fighter, whose origins date back to the 1960s, now offers 15,400 lb. thrust, up 4% from the previously reported rating, and a multifunction X band pulse-Doppler radar with a detection range of 75 km. (40 nm.) for 3-sq.-meter targets.
A brochure shows the aircraft with Avic Defense’s advanced PL-12 air-to-air missile. Weight is 10.4 metric tons empty, 15.2 tons at normal takeoff and 20 tons maximum.
(Aviation Week)
Why Egypt
Seceded K-8E project Egypt Produce 200+ Real Number not only 120 Chine looking for repeat same deal
Egypt need ALPH JET 45+ Replacement start from 2013
Egypt and Arab state need more Coin Aircraft for clean middle east from Terrorist groups in many countries
Egypt Have Largest air training facilities in the Middle East
need more LIFT for training pilot for rebuild Libyan air force and later Iraq after remove ِAl Malki 150 especially our student Libyan in the Egyptian Air Academy
JL-15 making a major push into the Middle East.
Sales opportunity for UAE & Kuwait not Saudi Arabia may use JF-17 For LIFT and COIN
L-15 have same MIG-29 Armament ( K-59 & KH-31 & K-29 )
Good replacement for 50 MIG-21
EGYPT Not accept Korean 50 KAI T-50/FA-50 Offer
and L-15 Logical Step after K-8E NOT YAK-130 Chinese Give more Technology Transfer than Russian
No Engine Problem for Export like RD-93
Ukraine said sell 250 AI-222 to China in three-year sales July 20, 2011
The most realistic option in Egypt for advanced training aircraft
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UAE M-346 Deal Cancel long time ago 27 January 2010 and UAE Order Some MB-339NAT for for the Al Fursan aerobatic demonstration team
Emirates and Egypt signed an agreement to cancel any competition in defense production and integration of production between the two countries in 2013, for example, Egypt stop producing vehicles similar to Tiger versus that the UAE's Emirates to buy products from the Arab Organization for Industrialization and do not compete in the same area of the Egyptian production
JL-15 making a major push into the Middle East.
L-15 Simulator
Emirates and Egypt signed an agreement to cancel any competition in defense production and integration of production between the two countries in 2013, for example, Egypt stop producing vehicles similar to Tiger versus that the UAE's Emirates to buy products from the Arab Organization for Industrialization and do not compete in the same area of the Egyptian production
JL-15 making a major push into the Middle East.
L-15 Simulator
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Egypt did not formally request at all JF-17, but was only to improve the conditions for negotiations with the Russians to buy Russian fighter jets and all of the published information is not official said an Egyptian official and a desire to get out and shows were a Chinese, I simply do not have the ability to confront any Israeli fighter this is not absorbed by amateur
Luftwaffe
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Egypt mulls JF-17 co-production
There is also insider news Egypt and Pakistan did discuss but looks like US killed the deal with F-16 offers EAF took it and now F-16s too are not coming so they settled for Mig-35. Anyway I do not believe the news of L-15 and Egypt producing it in home, it is too early to hand over complete TOT/transfer of technology for Egypt, license to produce is different than complete transfer of technology. 24 Mig-35s can't take on israeli 300+ F-16s block 52/60 and F-15s nor can L-15 type aircraft get AESA radar. My personal opinion is EAF have some bunch of weirdos in Hierarchy who can't decide and are not qualified enough.
Janes news was not news at all, and did not officially announce any responsible official of AOI or the Air Force did not comment on the news Janes any official of official also we have a military cooperation with Pakistan, but it was not related to the plane never JF-17
Classified as a strategic cooperation with Pakistan and said for years not JF-17 for Egypt
If Egypt never gets any foreign aid. It will collapse in 1 month time. I never heard Qatar trying to work against Saudi. I only heard Iran vs Saudi. Qatar, UAE and Saudi always work hand in hand to promote Sunni Islam. And its not a secret Saudi is trying to be the leader in middle east especially with its massive fund available.
As for L-15, the strategy for China is simple. Trying to make a plane compete against USAF F-16 is a sure lose situtation. Countries whos trying to operate an advance 4th gen fighter are usually rich countries who has enough budget to go for USA F-16. Instead China concentrate making an advance trainer that can be a multi platform which will help budget airforce fulfil multi-task and cut operating cost. A good example is Philippine airforce who inititally go for F-16 but it simply to expensive to procure and they decide to go for Korean Golden Eagle Advance trainer. Don't tell me Philippine go for TA-50 simply just to train their pilots without fighter jet to operate? In fact, Korea promise if neccessary, Israel Elta radar can be retrofit into TA-50 and make it a fighter jet. In these way, Philippine air force can save cost by operating just one platform.
Same as China L-15 who can put 8.5g and high AOA and you are telling me it can't perform the role of fighter jet? Don't you find surprise JF-17 which started operation 4 years ago has yet to master a single foreign procurement especially with China who can provide cheap loan and easily make a deal or two to happen. But no, it yet to happen.
L-15 who yet to even debut for PLAAF service and only comfirm finalise design last year , easily bag 2 foreign deals without much sweat.
Frogman
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The gulf nations have provided economic aid however they have not officially provided any funds for the Egyptian military. The Egyptian military has its own economic enterprise and the profits made from that are used to top up the official government budget, therefore it is hard to estimate what the military's real budget is and whether or not it is cash strapped. No nation can interfere in the procurement process or goals of the EAF. If you can find an official statement that any Egyptian arms deals are being funded by gulf nations then go ahead.
L-15 would be used to replace the aging Alpha Jet (which was produced under license as well). It is (or would not be) not being procured to replace any front line fighters.
Your personal opinion is irrelevant. The L-15 would be used to replace the Alpha jet as an advanced trainer, it would not be used to replace any 3rd or 3.5 gen fighters. Any fighter deal with the Russians will be a large commitment, Egypt has never
made an order for two squadrons only of any fighter and it is not a replacement for the F-16s as they will be delivered after the parliamentary elections.
If the deal has indeed happened I would expect it to follow the same framework the K-8E did, i.e local assembly at first from Chinese kits and then gradual transfer of technology till full or near full production capability.
Frogman
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I was inquiring whether if there was any official conformation of a deal or whether it was in the pipeline.
A mock up showed up on the desk of the Arab Organisation for Industrilisation (the same company that is involved in the K-8E and ASN-209 program) during an interview with the head of the aircraft building factory. A clip of the L-15 in action was also aired in the video of the interview.
Desert Fox
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What missile is this?? Does anyone know??2012 North Korea showed their new 16x16 missiler carrier, of course China offical refused made in China, but u knew ...
The Deterrent
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KN-08 or HS-13, a North Korean ICBM (claimed) which hasn't been test-launched yet. More here:
North Korean HS-13 missile
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