Chinese ships in disputed waters after Japan's prime minister Shinzo Abe sends offering to Yasukuni

[Aepsilons]

Scenes like this put a big smile on my face. Horrid acts were committed by all sides during the war, but as soon as hostilities end people who were once enemies can become the best of friends. Once China and Japan were friends, may they take inspiration from this picture and similar scenes and forgive and forget.

Indeed, it is a lesson for all. Aside from discussions with Chinese posters here (many of them are right wingers), I actually have a healthy amount of Chinese-American friends and associates in a personal level. Many of them are not as ultranationalistic as the ones you find here. Or with an agenda.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Indeed, it is a lesson for all. Aside from discussions with Chinese posters here (many of them are right wingers), I actually have a healthy amount of Chinese-American friends and associates in a personal level. Many of them are not as ultranationalistic as the ones you find here. Or with an agenda.

I have found similar things with my Chinese-American compatriots. Even for those that were native to China, once people get out of their country and see the world their eyes open and their preconceived notions are proven wrong. Forums like this attract nationalists and hawks, it's normal, and I would never allow an internet forum to shape my option on a whole group. I truly believe that for all the hate we hear about between Japan and China, a lot more love and peace is exchanged that we will never be privy to reading in our news.

 

[bobsm]

I'll reiterate this only once more since it seems you are incapable of grasping or understanding the concept. The US honors all war dead, list or no list, all war dead. Hitler is included in that category, so are Japanese criminals who fell during the war and even US military serves personal who committed crimes and atrocities. All war dead are honored by the US.

Incapable of grasping what? your runaround? As you, this is my last comment on this issue. The point of contention between China and Japan on the shrine issue, is that the names of those criminals are on the list of honored, not some anonymous groupings or general listings, but specific mentioning by name of those mass murderers. Is this clear enough for you? Contrary to what you'd like others to believe, the US does not honor Hitler, unlike the Japanese who does with their ww2 murderers.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Incapable of grasping what? your runaround? As you, this is my last comment on this issue. The point of contention between China and Japan on the shrine issue, is that the names of those criminals are on the list of honored, not some anonymous groupings or general listings, but specific mentioning by name of those mass murderers. Is this clear enough for you? Contrary to what you'd like others to believe, the US does not honor Hitler, unlike the Japanese who does with their ww2 murderers.

My runaround? I've commented as directly as I have needed to. When I was in the US Navy, during times of our ceremonies to mark the ends of WWII, we always stood at attention and honored all war dead. We didn't mutter under our breaths that Hitler or Himmler or Goebbels shouldn't be included, we kept our mouths shut and our hands to our foreheads. Maybe we didn't agree with honoring Hitler, but we honored all war dead just the same.

 

[Aepsilons]

Incapable of grasping what? your runaround? As you, this is my last comment on this issue. The point of contention between China and Japan on the shrine issue, is that the names of those criminals are on the list of honored, not some anonymous groupings or general listings, but specific mentioning by name of those mass murderers. Is this clear enough for you? Contrary to what you'd like others to believe, the US does not honor Hitler, unlike the Japanese who does with their ww2 murderers.

The problem is your side focuses on those 14 individuals. We visit Yasukuni because our relatives, and military personnel are entombed, enshrined there forever. Enshrined in Yasukuni are not only Japanese soldiers, but thousands of Koreans, Taiwanese and Chinese who fought and died for Japan. Visitors honor the peace that was achieved after the war, and all war dead. From both sides; Allied and Axis.

Prayers for Peace and Remembrance in Yasukuni,

 

[bobsm]

Indeed, it is a lesson for all. Aside from discussions with Chinese posters here (many of them are right wingers), I actually have a healthy amount of Chinese-American friends and associates in a personal level. Many of them are not as ultranationalistic as the ones you find here. Or with an agenda.

Sure, I too have a healthy number Japanese friends, who are ashamed of the atrocities committed by their ancestors, and are greatly angered by the visits of the PM and his cabinet members to the shrine.

 

[Aepsilons]

Sure, I too have a healthy number Japanese friends, who are ashamed of the atrocities committed by their ancestors, and are greatly angered by the visits of the PM and his cabinet members to the shrine.

Its only natural to be empathetic to friends who may have been in the wrong side during the war. Historical points of view are one's one, its all subjective and influenced by emotion. My grandfather served in the IJN , and so did my grand uncles. I've had relatives who were sent to Guadalcanal and fought the Americans there ...to the death. We still have my grand uncle's letters , and his locket of hair that he had sent. For sure I will remember and honor his memory, and his sacrifice. He rests now in some foreign distant land, but his memory will never be forgotten.

 

[bobsm]

The problem is your side focuses on those 14 individuals. We visit Yasukuni because our relatives, and military personnel are entombed, enshrined there forever. Enshrined in Yasukuni are not only Japanese soldiers, but thousands of Koreans, Taiwanese and Chinese who fought and died for Japan. Visitors honor the peace that was achieved after the war, and all war dead. From both sides; Allied and Axis.

Again, how do you think your same argument would fly with Israel and US, if Hitler was also "accidentally" honored the same way by the Germans? Be honest here.

 

[Aepsilons]

Again, how do you think your same argument would fly with Israel and US, if Hitler was also "accidentally" honored the same way by the Germans? Be honest here.

Let me redirect your question; what makes you think that there are none in Germany who honor some Nazi leaders? There are Neo-Nazi movements not only in Germany, but in France, Russia, UK, the US, South Africa, Australia etc. Its their freedom of speech to do so. And their freedom to worship whomever they please. They are afforded such rights through the Bill of Rights and through the Constitutions in said countries.

Who are we to repress their right to freedom of thought, and speech? We don't live in an authoritarian establishment.

 

[AgentOrange]

Let me redirect your question; what makes you think that there are none in Germany who honor some Nazi leaders? There are Neo-Nazi movements not only in Germany, but in France, Russia, UK, the US, South Africa, Australia etc. Its their freedom of speech to do so. And their freedom to worship whomever they please. They are afforded such rights through the Bill of Rights and through the Constitutions in said countries.

Who are we to repress their right to freedom of thought, and speech? We don't live in an authoritarian establishment.

And how many of those people in Germany, etc who honor Nazis are elected officials or political figures? By your own post, you compare Japanese leaders to fringe groups in other countries. I guess I should not be surprised since Abe has Nazi sympathizers in his cabinet. Yes there's freedom of speech but when we see worship of war criminals on an official level, that's quite a bit worse. You aren't dumb and I don't believe that you can't figure out the difference. Therefore, I must assume that you have an agenda.

By the way, Germany has outlawed displays of the swastika and made being a Nazi essentially illegal. There's nothing remotely similar in Japan, who tries to sweep its history under the rug. The level of civilization in the two countries couldn't be more different.

 

[Aepsilons]

And how many of those people in Germany, etc who honor Nazis are elected officials or political figures? By your own post, you compare Japanese leaders to fringe groups in other countries. I guess I should not be surprised since Abe has Nazi sympathizers in his cabinet. Yes there's freedom of speech but when we see worship of war criminals on an official level, that's quite a bit worse. You aren't dumb and I don't believe that you can't figure out the difference. Therefore, I must assume that you have an agenda.

By the way, Germany has outlawed displays of the swastika and made being a Nazi essentially illegal. There's nothing remotely similar in Japan, who tries to sweep its history under the rug. The level of civilization in the two countries couldn't be more different.

Friend,

Yasukuni Shrine is a Shinto shrine. Its a religious site, that honors all souls who died in the war. I don't understand your decision to equate it with Nazis and the like. Is it wrong to pray for the forgiveness of souls who died? Sinners as well as Saints? Is it not act of righteousness to pray for all those who died ? Do you understand that shinto priests utter prayers for Chinese, Korea, Filipino, American, Dutch, Malays et al, who died , too ?

 

[AgentOrange]

Friend,

Yasukuni Shrine is a Shinto shrine. Its a religious site, that honors all souls who died in the war. I don't understand your decision to equate it with Nazis and the like. Is it wrong to pray for the forgiveness of souls who died? Sinners as well as Saints? Is it not act of righteousness to pray for all those who died ?

How feasible would it be to "dis-enshrine" (may not be a word, lol) the 14 war criminals honored there? That would solve a lot of problems between China and Japan.

 

[Aepsilons]

How feasible would it be to "dis-enshrine" (may not be a word, lol) the 14 war criminals honored there? That would solve a lot of problems between China and Japan.

I say, that should be considered, perhaps placing them in another tomb. The priests pray for them, especially for them. Sympathy and compassion defines Shintoism. Priests of Shintoism understand the torment the souls of sinners udergoe. This is why they pray for them all.

Afterall, we are all dust, our lives are fleeting. We in life pray for those who are dead, so that, we too , would receive prayers when we too are dead and gone.

This is shintoism.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

MIGHTY DRAGON !!!!

 

[Joeblow]

How feasible would it be to "dis-enshrine" (may not be a word, lol) the 14 war criminals honored there? That would solve a lot of problems between China and Japan.

No, it wouldn't. Right now, China is a global power with a lot of new toys. They want to try them out. They want to push their neighbhors around. That's what's really happening. The rest of it, likeJapanese PM's tribute to fallen soldiers or India's new "assertive" policy and all the other real or perceived slights to China, are just excuses.