Chinese Navy (PLAN) News & Discussions

[Shotgunner51]

The system looks compact enough to fit inside a type99A tank after some modification. As long as the power is enough to power velocity beyond 125mm gunpowder speed. It will deem a success.

Plus the calibre need not be big and rounds carry , definitely smaller than traditional gunpowder rounds, making more space for powerpack needed for railgun.

Perhaps vi-va means instantaneous power (measured in kW)? Assuming it's a 10 MJ railgun and overall system efficiency at 10%, energy required per shot is roughly 2.8 kWh, this amount is not an issue for large modern battery pack. I guess one major challenge is getting enough instantaneous power, which could be very demanding especially for a very compact system.

tank? not possible. not enough power

 

[jjx wood]

The system looks compact enough to fit inside a type99A tank after some modification. As long as the power is enough to power velocity beyond 125mm gunpowder speed. It will deem a success.

Plus the calibre need not be big and rounds carry , definitely smaller than traditional gunpowder rounds, making more space for powerpack needed for railgun.

This minimized Verizon is not practical for anti-ship, so I believed it is a logical choice for anti-tank which it can be mounted on tank or truck.

 

[vi-va]

Perhaps vi-va means instantaneous power (measured in kW)? Assuming it's a 10 MJ railgun and overall system efficiency at 10%, energy required per shot is roughly 2.8 kWh, this amount is not an issue for large modern battery pack. I guess one major challenge is getting enough instantaneous power, which could be very demanding especially for a very compact system.

@Polestar 2
Only ultracapacitors（Supercapacitor）can discharge and create instantaneous current.

Capacitor energy density is two orders of magnitude lower than explosives. If you need 20KG of propellant for traditional projectile, you may need 2000 KG of super capacitor for single shot.

Unless one day there is breakthrough on electricity discharge and storage. It's NO NO for rail gun on the tank.

Just do the math.

Btw, China use Supercapacitor for high speed train, to recycle the electricity.

Supercapacitor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On the other hand, destroyer don't have the problem. The engine and power system can quickly recharge the Supercapacitor.

 

[casual]

@Polestar 2
Only ultracapacitors（Supercapacitor）can discharge and create instantaneous current.

Capacitor energy density is two orders of magnitude lower than explosives. If you need 20KG of propellant for traditional projectile, you may need 2000 KG of super capacitor for single shot.

Unless one day there is breakthrough on electricity discharge and storage. It's NO NO for rail gun on the tank.

Just do the math.

Btw, China use Supercapacitor for high speed train, to recycle the electricity.



View attachment 789596

Supercapacitor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On the other hand, destroyer don't have the problem. The engine and power system can quickly recharge the Supercapacitor.

2 tons of super capacitors is very doable for tanks and artilleries

 

[Polestar 2]

@Polestar 2
Only ultracapacitors（Supercapacitor）can discharge and create instantaneous current.

Capacitor energy density is two orders of magnitude lower than explosives. If you need 20KG of propellant for traditional projectile, you may need 2000 KG of super capacitor for single shot.

Unless one day there is breakthrough on electricity discharge and storage. It's NO NO for rail gun on the tank.

Just do the math.

Btw, China use Supercapacitor for high speed train, to recycle the electricity.



View attachment 789596

Supercapacitor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On the other hand, destroyer don't have the problem. The engine and power system can quickly recharge the Supercapacitor.

Since the Chinese claim this is a breakthrough, it's not possible to use conventional way to calculate the power distribution.

Definitely , they achieved some beyond the basic previous physics to be called a break thru.

Why would the bother to miniaturize it since the naval will need a big gun to better fit something like 055?

 

[vi-va]

2 tons of super capacitors is very doable for tanks and artilleries

Think about 20 round, it's 2000kgX20, which is 40 tons. Doable?
Come one dude.

 

[monitor]

A giant Navy with 218 major warships excluding submarine and auxiliary.

 

[FuturePAF]

Chinese Fleet Conducts Live-fire Drill at Bohai Sea

Is the Bohai sea internationally considered Chinese internal waters? The shape of the Bohai sea (especially with the islands at the mouth and a second bay just outside of it) makes it the ideal submarine bastion. A lot of the Type 56s could be deployed there for ASW to keep out SSNs that maybe trying to hunt Chinese SSBNs

BTW, with all the ships China is building has China increased the number and/or size of the maintenance facilities. First overhauls are suppose to be every 3-5 years for naval ships?

 

[lcloo]

Is the Bohai sea internationally considered Chinese internal waters? The shape of the Bohai sea (especially with the islands at the mouth and a second bay just outside of it) makes it the ideal submarine bastion. A lot of the Type 56s could be deployed there for ASW to keep out SSNs that maybe trying to hunt Chinese SSBNs

BTW, with all the ships China is building has China increased the number and/or size of the maintenance facilities. First overhauls are suppose to be every 3-5 years for naval ships?

Yes, Bohai sea is part of China. It is surrounnded by Land on 3 directions, and many small Chinese islands to the East where it is joined to the Yellow Sea.

The Bohai Sea (Chinese: 渤海; lit. 'Bo Sea') is a marginal sea approximately 77,000 km2 (30,000 sq mi) in area on the east coast of Mainland China.[1] It is the northwestern and innermost extension of the Yellow Sea, to which it connects to the east via the Bohai Strait.

A medium-sized gulf, the Bohai Sea is enclosed by three provinces and one direct-administered municipality from three different regions of China — Liaoning Province (of Northeast China), Hebei Province and Tianjin Municipality (of North China), and Shandong Province (of East China). The whole of the Bohai Sea is considered a part of both the internal waters of the People's Republic of China and the center of the Bohai Economic Rim. Its proximity to the Chinese capital of Beijing and the municipality of Tianjin makes it one of the busiest seaways in the world.

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes, Bohai sea is part of China. It is surrounnded by Land on 3 directions, and many small Chinese islands to the East where it is joined to the Yellow Sea.

The Bohai Sea (Chinese: 渤海; lit. 'Bo Sea') is a marginal sea approximately 77,000 km2 (30,000 sq mi) in area on the east coast of Mainland China.[1] It is the northwestern and innermost extension of the Yellow Sea, to which it connects to the east via the Bohai Strait.

A medium-sized gulf, the Bohai Sea is enclosed by three provinces and one direct-administered municipality from three different regions of China — Liaoning Province (of Northeast China), Hebei Province and Tianjin Municipality (of North China), and Shandong Province (of East China). The whole of the Bohai Sea is considered a part of both the internal waters of the People's Republic of China and the center of the Bohai Economic Rim. Its proximity to the Chinese capital of Beijing and the municipality of Tianjin makes it one of the busiest seaways in the world.

View attachment 792262

But is it internationally (“legally”) considered Chinese Territorial waters, such that any ship entering needs China’s permission to enter?

 

[Shotgunner51]

But is it internationally (“legally”) considered Chinese Territorial waters, such that any ship entering needs China’s permission to enter?

Yes, Bohai is Chinese territorial waters according to UNCLOS. It's on the continental shelf, not very deep, so while it can be a safe house for SSBN guarded by 056/039/GX-6, enemy SSN or even SSK can't do much tactical maneuver and won't risk sneaking in.

In fact PLAN deploys 056/039/GX-6 much further away from coastline say in the Yellow Sea or East China Sea, where much of it is open ("international") and deeper, where the game of Tom & Jerry happens on a daily basis like in SCS, so enemy subs getting close to Bohai is deem impossible.

 

[lcloo]

But is it internationally (“legally”) considered Chinese Territorial waters, such that any ship entering needs China’s permission to enter?

According to the international law of passage, 12 nautical miles belongs to the territorial sea. The farthest distance between the Bohai Mouth island and Dalian is about 41.7 kilometers, which translates to 22.5 nautical miles (length of the yellow line in the map below) . Both sides extend 12 nautical miles, the Bohai Mouth just ties up, and any point on this line is China's territorial sea.

Look at the map below, all land and water left side of the redline is Chinese territorial water and land, in accordance to international law. And since Bohai sea is surrounded at all sides by Chinese territorial land and territorial sea, it is thus an internal sea ( same as a lake surrounded at all sides by territorial land) of China.

And yes, permission is require to enter Bohai sea.

 

[jaybird]

According to the international law of passage, 12 nautical miles belongs to the territorial sea. The farthest distance between the Bohai Mouth island and Dalian is about 41.7 kilometers, which translates to 22.5 nautical miles (length of the yellow line in the map below) . Both sides extend 12 nautical miles, the Bohai Mouth just ties up, and any point on this line is China's territorial sea.

Look at the map below, all land and water left side of the redline is Chinese territorial water and land, in accordance to international law. And since Bohai sea is surrounded at all sides by Chinese territorial land and territorial sea, it is thus an internal sea ( same as a lake surrounded at all sides by territorial land) of China.

And yes, permission is require to enter Bohai sea.
View attachment 792393

Thanks lcloo for the great effort and going extra nautical miles explaining for those of us who are not familiar with Bohai Mouth island and Dalian. Now we can easily understand with the map. I didn't realize all of Bohai sea is Chinese territorial waters according to UNCLOS. Nice post!

 

[Shotgunner51]

According to the international law of passage, 12 nautical miles belongs to the territorial sea. The farthest distance between the Bohai Mouth island and Dalian is about 41.7 kilometers, which translates to 22.5 nautical miles (length of the yellow line in the map below) . Both sides extend 12 nautical miles, the Bohai Mouth just ties up, and any point on this line is China's territorial sea.

Look at the map below, all land and water left side of the redline is Chinese territorial water and land, in accordance to international law. And since Bohai sea is surrounded at all sides by Chinese territorial land and territorial sea, it is thus an internal sea ( same as a lake surrounded at all sides by territorial land) of China.

And yes, permission is require to enter Bohai sea.
View attachment 792393

Excellent post!

 

[lcloo]

Thanks guy but I cannot take the credit, I sort of copy and paste from this person, so he should be the one you should thank.