Chinese Navy (PLAN) News & Discussions

[Deino]

To admit, due to the fact that "deagel" also list a J-23 and J-25 tells a lot about this site's reliability and credibility.

http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/J-23_a002930001.aspx
http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/J-25_a002931001.aspx

 

[PRC2025]

Nope. You have to see what the Chinese were doing when they were our equivalent today.

India has a $2.5T GDP. A China-equivalent back in the early 2000s would be 2004. Meaning, India is the equivalent of what China was back in 2004 considering inflation.

And in 2004, their most advanced destroyer was the old Type 052B of which they had only two. In comparison, as an economy of similar stature, we are doing much better than they did and we are operating many more ships of superior types.

All the stuff you are comparing with India are stuff that the Chinese built up after they were a $10T economy. Their economy allowed them to build more ships of the same type, hence they could sign agreements that allowed them to license produce and ensure little delays.

As time goes, it won't take long for India to replicate the same success as China's. Growth is exponential after all.

As I said earlier, whatever India is doing today is bigger than what the Chinese did in their own time with the same kind of finances. It's just that China is so big now that whatever India does will feel small in comparison.

Simply based on timeline and finances, you should be comparing the P-15B and P-17A to the Type 052Cs. As for Type 052Ds, you should be comparing that to whatever the IN will decide to make after the P-15Bs are delivered, because that's when India will have the China-equivalent defence budget necessary to place large orders.

AAhhahahaga, that's funny - I like Extreme Hindutva HinduuZ humor

Ok, so back to reality. India is way behind China in every possible way. You know why you're behind? Because you are good at barking that you're the best, while the Chinese knows their strenght and weakness and work systematically to overcome them. That is a massive, cultural difference which no "Indian Growth" is going to save you from.
By the way, India is a fragmented country with a lot of different religious and ethnic groups, facing a massive and problematic increase in population. In other words - you're not growing by QUALITY - India is growing because of QUANTITY, because you're "producing" more and more of what I call "3,000-USD-per-year" citizens.

You're never going to be close to China. Not in 2030, not in 2040 and not in 2050.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ojected_GDP_(nominal)#Long_term_GDP_estimates

China is in 2050 almost as big as the U.S. and India combined. 50.000 billion USD vs 62.000 billion USD. Pakistan is going to be at 2.900 billion USD - and these are nominal numbers. In PPP, the picture gets even more ridiculous, lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...d_projected_GDP_(PPP)#Long_term_GDP_estimates

In 2050: China 121.392 billion USD + Pakistan 4.700 billion USD. And these numbers are without Hong-Kong, which would add another 1.600 billion USD PPP for China in 2050. Then, there's Macao with another 250 billion USD PPP in 2050 which can be added too.

vs India 67.465 billion USD

vs the U.S. 51.461 billion USD

Stop making me laugh, lol.

 

[randomradio]

To admit, due to the fact that "deagel" also list a J-23 and J-25 tells a lot about this site's reliability and credibility.

http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/J-23_a002930001.aspx
http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/J-25_a002931001.aspx

https://www.afcea.org/content/?q=china-destroyer-consolidates-innovations-other-ship-advances
The combined diesel and generator (CODAG) propulsion on the 052D is the QC-280 Chinese copy of Ukraine Zorya-Mashproekt UGT 15000, also designated DN/80 gas turbine propulsion. Xian Aero Engine (XAE) manufactured the QC-280 under license from Ukraine in 1990 when eight were imported as the QD-80 for two Luhu ships. The XAE-built prototype with 28 megawatts of power was installed on the 052B Wuhan hull 169 in 2009, which made a Somali TG9 deployment in 2011. CNET 5 with DDG 168 left Hainan for the Gulf of Aden from March to July 2010, but it was not believed to have been modernized with the QC-280. The 052D reportedly has two diesel engines each providing six megawatts of power. All 052B/C Luyang DDGs and the 052D have license-produced MTU 20V 956TB92 diesel engines by Shaanxi Diesel Work rated at 4.9 megawatts of power.

 

[Figaro]

https://www.afcea.org/content/?q=china-destroyer-consolidates-innovations-other-ship-advances
The combined diesel and generator (CODAG) propulsion on the 052D is the QC-280 Chinese copy of Ukraine Zorya-Mashproekt UGT 15000, also designated DN/80 gas turbine propulsion. Xian Aero Engine (XAE) manufactured the QC-280 under license from Ukraine in 1990 when eight were imported as the QD-80 for two Luhu ships. The XAE-built prototype with 28 megawatts of power was installed on the 052B Wuhan hull 169 in 2009, which made a Somali TG9 deployment in 2011. CNET 5 with DDG 168 left Hainan for the Gulf of Aden from March to July 2010, but it was not believed to have been modernized with the QC-280. The 052D reportedly has two diesel engines each providing six megawatts of power. All 052B/C Luyang DDGs and the 052D have license-produced MTU 20V 956TB92 diesel engines by Shaanxi Diesel Work rated at 4.9 megawatts of power.

First, Deagel is not a reliable source for Chinese weapons. Even if we go by your source, it says the QD-80 was manufactured under license, which itself is a predecessor to the QC-280. The QC-280 itself was indigenized/modernized by the Chinese with various improvements and based off the original Ukrainian imports (hence not exactly a “copy”). The article clearly states a XAE prototype ... so how can they be licensed copies? I believe you are confused about the QC-280 designation.

http://www.deagel.com/Propulsion-Systems/QC280_a002973001.aspx
The Chinese QC280 is a high performance gas turbine developed and assembled by the China Shipbuilding Industry. The QC280 relates to the Ukranian GT-25000 gas turbine technology delivered to China in 1993 but with key components manufactured in Ukraine. In the early 2000s, China was able to get all the technology of the GT-25000 allowing it to manufacture all its components locally thus receiving the designation of UGT-25000. In the early 2010s, after solving a series of defects and shortfalls China re-designated this gas turbine as the QC-280. As of 2014 the QC280 is in production and is expected to be provided to large displacement ships such as the 12,000-ton class Type 055 destroyer and the new conventionally-powered Type 011 aircraft carrier.

It's just a license built Ukranian engine.

Read your source please. I beg you. The first line sums it all up : The Chinese QC280 is a high performance gas turbine developed and assembled by the China Shipbuilding Industry. Why are you still arguing a non-existent point ... was it based on a Ukrainian gas turbine? Yes. But was it modernized/indigenized by the Chinese? Also a yes. But is it manufactured under license ... the answer is no. That’s like asking if the J-11B or D is manufactured under license from Russia ...

 

[randomradio]

First, Deagel is not a reliable source for Chinese weapons. Even if we go by your source, it says the QD-80 was manufactured under license, which itself is a predecessor to the QC-280. The QC-280 itself was indigenized/modernized by the Chinese with various improvements and based off the original Ukrainian imports (hence not exactly a “copy”). The article clearly states a XAE prototype ... so how can they be licensed copies? I believe you are confused about the QC-280 designation.


Read your source please. I beg you. The first line sums it all up : The Chinese QC280 is a high performance gas turbine developed and assembled by the China Shipbuilding Industry. Why are you still arguing a non-existent point ... was it based on a Ukrainian gas turbine? Yes. But was it modernized/indigenized by the Chinese? Also a yes. But is it manufactured under license ... the answer is no. That’s like asking if the J-11B or D is manufactured under license from Russia ...

If that's the case, then why did Ukraine sell the license to produce their engines to China?

You do realize all defence trade is recorded and open source right?

 

[帅的一匹]

If that's the case, then why did Ukraine sell the license to produce their engines to China?

You do realize all defence trade is recorded and open source right?

You can't get the same thing like China, cause it's not all about money. It's about we are one of the big five, and you are not.

 

[cirr]

Dalian 055 #3 or #4?

 

[juj06750]

QC280 is NOT licensed-manufactured
it is fully developed and further upgraded by China itself
its performance has been very outstanding since its first adoption in the early 2010s ;
China is very satisfied with QC280 and uses it for the latest four ships of 052C, 052D, and 055 forward
China studied Ukrainian GT25000 in 1993 and licensed-manufactured UGT25000 in the early 2000s
then, China localized all components of UGT25000
and finally completed its own QC280 in the early 2010s, first applying to the latest 052C

India buys everything (including even small guns) from Russia and West
they couldn't make anything themselves, but they sound like everything is their own
and hopefully comparing it with what China makes
Hey, friends . we all live in real world, not in wishes

honestly, China considers India not as its rival but as its just big neighbor (rather friend)
please keep in mind that it's just another American buff against China

 

[terranMarine]

Our ignorant/arrogant/stubborn Indian friend is totally clueless in what he is trying to argue with.

We can construct our warships not only in large quantities but also in a timely fashion without the lousy excuse delay by foreign suppliers. Our modern warships are equipped with Chinese gas turbines, not licensed manufactured. We have a special relationship with our friend, something the Indian can scarcely fathom why we have this closely working ties. Therefor technology wise China is light years ahead of India, not on par. Not only is it wishful thinking on that part, he got the economy comparison all wrong as well. Gosh what has the poor soul been smoking as of late?

 

[Dungeness]

Our ignorant/arrogant/stubborn Indian friend is totally clueless in what he is trying to argue with.

We can construct our warships not only in large quantities but also in a timely fashion without the lousy excuse delay by foreign suppliers. Our modern warships are equipped with Chinese gas turbines, not licensed manufactured. We have a special relationship with our friend, something the Indian can scarcely fathom why we have this closely working ties. Therefor technology wise China is light years ahead of India, not on par. Not only is it wishful thinking on that part, he got the economy comparison all wrong as well. Gosh what has the poor soul been smoking as of late?

I don't think they have the culture of introspection, so they usually go out of their way to find excuses or other's fault whenever it is possible, unless in the cases like submarine torpedoed itself at dock or frigate landed on its side in dry dock. That's the way they are and will be.

 

[terranMarine]

I don't think they have the culture of introspection, so they usually go out of their way to find excuses or other's fault whenever it is possible, unless in the cases like submarine torpedoed itself at dock or frigate landed on its side in dry dock. That's the way they are and will be.

That's the difference between the sophisticated hi-tech China and an incompetent India.

 

[Jlaw]

That's the difference between the sophisticated hi-tech China and an incompetent India.

That's why no point arguing with retards.

 

[chengdusudise]

Very much like the Russians

I think russias maybe infected by indians due to their long term friendship.

 

[randomradio]

You can't get the same thing like China, cause it's not all about money. It's about we are one of the big five, and you are not.

We are license producing the LM2500.

It has nothing to do with being part of the P5.

QC280 is NOT licensed-manufactured
it is fully developed and further upgraded by China itself
its performance has been very outstanding since its first adoption in the early 2010s ;
China is very satisfied with QC280 and uses it for the latest four ships of 052C, 052D, and 055 forward
China studied Ukrainian GT25000 in 1993 and licensed-manufactured UGT25000 in the early 2000s
then, China localized all components of UGT25000
and finally completed its own QC280 in the early 2010s, first applying to the latest 052C

India buys everything (including even small guns) from Russia and West
they couldn't make anything themselves, but they sound like everything is their own
and hopefully comparing it with what China makes
Hey, friends . we all live in real world, not in wishes

honestly, China considers India not as its rival but as its just big neighbor (rather friend)
please keep in mind that it's just another American buff against China

Then why did Ukraine sell the license for the engine for 14 Type 052Ds?

The Type 052Cs are also using Ukranian gas turbines.

Our ignorant/arrogant/stubborn Indian friend is totally clueless in what he is trying to argue with.

We can construct our warships not only in large quantities but also in a timely fashion without the lousy excuse delay by foreign suppliers. Our modern warships are equipped with Chinese gas turbines, not licensed manufactured. We have a special relationship with our friend, something the Indian can scarcely fathom why we have this closely working ties. Therefor technology wise China is light years ahead of India, not on par. Not only is it wishful thinking on that part, he got the economy comparison all wrong as well. Gosh what has the poor soul been smoking as of late?

So you gave free money to the Ukranians for 28 gas turbines?

That's why no point arguing with retards.

Yeah, there are too many of them here.

 

[Globenim]

If that's the case, then why did

Apple iPhones are Chinese smartphones.
If thats not the case, then why did Chinea sell licences to produce phones to America?

"The Chinese company licensed 769 patents to Apple"
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-05/10/c_135348298.htm

Then why did Apple labs buy Huawei smartphones?
Then why are Chinese apples blue but American oranges sour?

This intellectually dishonest routine is old and tiresome.
QC280 is not a different designation for the UGT25000. QC280 is not a licenced Ukrainian engine Period.

Go be a hypocrite troll elsewhere.