Chinese Missiles News & Discussions

[amalakas]

1. My statement regarding physics is correct.

which statement ?

2. The high temperature at a high altitude excludes infrared detection by the warhead. We are still left with active radar or relay of coordinates from an external sensor.

errmmm forgive me , but NO, if your high temperature prevents IR, the same high temperature creates the re-entry plasma burn up field -which is the same that blocks communication and radar track of the shuttle- and hence the onboard RADAR cannot work...

so which is it?

If we are still discussing point number one then your citation proves nothing.

If we are discussing point number two then infrared detection by the warhead has been ruled out.

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I will give you one out of three points.

a. Your first graph was irrelevant. (0 point)

b. Your argument about the majority of friction-induced heating was wrong. (0 point)

c. I didn't know the significant heating started at 63km, instead of 10km. (1 point)

Still don't like you.

it is irrelevant to the truth if you like me or not .

 

[Martian2]

which statement ?

errmmm forgive me , but NO, if your high temperature prevents IR, the same high temperature creates the re-entry plasma burn up field -which is the same that blocks communication and radar track of the shuttle- and hence the onboard RADAR cannot work...

so which is it?

it is irrelevant to the truth if you like me or not .

Radar can penetrate plasma depending on wavelength

The plasma field is chaotic only during the transition period. Also, the field should exist in a cone. Data should be relayable to the warhead through the rear section.

Plasma should not affect high frequency radar.

Plasma stealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The central issue here is frequency of the incoming signal. A plasma will simply reflect radio waves below a certain frequency (which depends on the plasma properties). This aids long-range communications, because low-frequency radio signals bounce between the Earth and the ionosphere and may therefore travel long distances. Early-warning over-the-horizon radars utilize such low-frequency radio waves. Most military airborne and air defense radars, however, operate in the microwave band, where many plasmas, including the ionosphere, absorb or transmit the radiation (the use of microwave communication between the ground and communication satellites demonstrates that at least some frequencies can penetrate the ionosphere)."

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You are incorrect about plasma blocking ALL radar wavelengths. Your score has dropped to 1 point (correct) out of 4 (statements/claims).

 

[j20blackdragon]

errmmm forgive me , but NO, if your high temperature prevents IR, the same high temperature creates the re-entry plasma burn up field -which is the same that blocks communication and radar track of the shuttle- and hence the onboard RADAR cannot work...

Which is why the DF-21D will most likely use an offboard sensor like the J-20 or J-15 to provide targeting information.

This is so simple even a baby should be able to figure it out.

 

[amalakas]

Radar can penetrate plasma depending on wavelength

The plasma field is chaotic only during the transition period. Also, the field should exist in a cone. Data should be relayable to the warhead through the rear section.

Plasma should not affect high frequency radar.

Plasma stealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The central issue here is frequency of the incoming signal. A plasma will simply reflect radio waves below a certain frequency (which depends on the plasma properties). This aids long-range communications, because low-frequency radio signals bounce between the Earth and the ionosphere and may therefore travel long distances. Early-warning over-the-horizon radars utilize such low-frequency radio waves. Most military airborne and air defense radars, however, operate in the microwave band, where many plasmas, including the ionosphere, absorb or transmit the radiation (the use of microwave communication between the ground and communication satellites demonstrates that at least some frequencies can penetrate the ionosphere)."

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You are incorrect about plasma blocking ALL radar wavelengths. Your score has dropped to 1 point (correct) out of 4 (statements/claims).

Score or not, you have resorted to using wikipedia. Moreover you are now speculating two things.

1. That the re-entry plasma will not affect the vehicle's radar (without knowing what radar that is, or if such a radar could be on the cone)

2. That the rear section will be receiving targeting information .. From where?


Also in that famous photo of the simulated carrier hit by the missile you showed us,

two things there too.

1. I searched the coordinates on Google earth and found nothing.

Now maybe I have done something wrong, I accept that, I would appreciate you going to these coordinates now and getting a new image if possible

2. In that photo, the target was a flat piece of land. No structures of beacons of any kind.
What targeting Radar found a flat piece of land so the missile could be evalu-tested ?


And just so you two are not wondering, I am trying to get you to see, that the more you think about this, the more complex this targeting infrastructure for this missile is getting..

more links in the chain, more things to affect its effectiveness...

Which is why the DF-21D will most likely use an offboard sensor like the J-20 or J-15 to provide targeting information.

This is so simple even a baby should be able to figure it out.

same goes for you my phallic symbol obsessed friend, your solution is more desperate than you think..

 

[j20blackdragon]

The DF-21D isn't really needed.

It should be easy enough for J-20s to destroy an enemy ship's radar with a barrage of anti-radiation missiles like in any other SEAD mission. After that, the ship is nothing more than a floating target for glide bombs or anti-ship cruise missiles.

If the DF-21D works, you have one extra thing to worry about.

If it doesn't work, China has other options.

Also if you're absolutely certain that the DF-21D isn't capable of hitting a moving ship, the obvious solution is that it is nuclear. End of story.

 

[amalakas]

The DF-21D isn't really needed.

It should be easy enough for J-20s to destroy an enemy ship's radar with a barrage of anti-radiation missiles like in any other SEAD mission. After that, the ship is nothing more than a floating target for glide bombs or anti-ship cruise missiles.

If the DF-21D works, you have one extra thing to worry about.

If it doesn't work, China has other options.

Also if you're absolutely certain that the DF-21D isn't capable of hitting a moving ship, the obvious solution is that it is nuclear. End of story.

That sounds more plausible, with the exception that it isn't easy for any plane to reach a carrier. Possible, yes, easy, no.

I have no argument with the nuclear. The Russians went that way too I believe.

 

[j20blackdragon]

And even if we assume that the DF-21D is incapable of hitting a moving target, there are still many applications for a highly accurate conventional ballistic missile. For example, a stationary ship in port is a very tempting target. Think Pearl Harbor.

 

[hk299792458]

A video from CCTV showing a combat simulation between Su-27SK and HQ-9A SAM system...

 

[Obambam]

 

[Broccoli]

DF-31 as seen in NAIC 1996 report.

 

[Broccoli]

There is some mistakes in this, for starters DF-31's NATO codename is actually CSS-10.

DF-31: CSS-10 Mod 1
DF-31A: CSS-10 Mod 2
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/naic/NASIC2009.pdf

DongFeng 31 (CSS-9) Intercontinental Ballistic Missile:
DongFeng 31 (CSS-9) Intercontinental Ballistic Missile: The most advanced Chinese ballistic missile currently in service, the DF-31 replaced the DF-4 originally introduced in the 1970s. The missile first debut in the 1999 National day military parade.The DongFeng-31 (DF-31, NATO codename: CSS-9) is an intercontinental-range, road-mobile, solid-propellant ballistic missile developed by Academy of Rocket Motor Technology (ARMT, also known as 4th Aerospace Academy). The missile was developed as a land-based version of the JL-2 submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM). The most advanced ballistic missile currently in service, the DF-31 features higher mobility and therefore better survivability compared to the last generation Chinese ICBM.

DongFeng-31 specifications:

Configuration: Three stage
Length: 13m 15,5m
Diameter: 2.25m
Launch Weight: 42,000kg
Propellant: Solid fuel
Guidance: Inertial + stellar update
Range: 8,000km (DF-31); 10,000km (DF-31A) 7240km+ (DF-31); 11,200km+ (DF-31A)
Deployment: Silo or road mobile
Re-entry Vehicle Mass: 1,050~1,750kg 470kg
Warhead: One single 1,000kT, or up to three 20~150kT multiple independently targeted re-entry vehicle (MIRV) One single 500-700kt, MIRV capabililty not known
CEP: 100~300m
Launch Preparation Time: ~15 min

 

[cirr]

DF-25：

Model shown during an internal exhibition held several years ago。

 

[Lone]

...Anybody knows the specifications of the missile that Saudi Arabia purchased from China? I heard it was css-7 (?) can anybody confirm? And the type of warhead too. Thanks in advance...

 

[Broccoli]

...Anybody knows the specifications of the missile that Saudi Arabia purchased from China? I heard it was css-7 (?) can anybody confirm? And the type of warhead too. Thanks in advance...

Saudi-Arabia purchased older liquid fueled DF-3A (CSS-2) missiles from China.
IMINT & Analysis: Saudi Arabia's Ballistic Missile Force

 

[hk299792458]

How many different kind of missiles could you identify in this video?