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Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

Its radar is supposedly an AESA system developed by the 14th Institute, the same organization responsible for the radar systems aboard the J-10B and J-20. Previous 4.5-generation Chinese Flankers such as the J-15S and J-16 use an AESA radar developed by the 607th Institue, which is a main competitor to the 14th Institute. 607th's radar has 1760 T/R modules and is capable of detecting a 0.1 m^2 target at 250 km or a 0.4 m^2 target at 280 km, which works out to a detection range (for a 1 m^2 target) of 450 km.

The 14th Institute is known for its advanced module packing design, a testament to which is the selection of its AESA radar over 607th Institute's AESA radar for the J-10B program (i.e. the 607th Institute could not pack many T/R modules for the J-10B's relatively small radome). Hence, I would expect the J-11D's radar to be even more powerful and precise than those installed aboard the J-16 and J-15S.
You have some good information Can you compare J-11 D with SU-35 and J-10 B with Rafale I am debating with some Pakistanis and they say J-11 D don't even close to matching SU-35 and also Rafale is far far superior to J-10 B so I want full details to answer them @SinoSoldier Please reply soon
 
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In addition to OP's question, with 1760(?) TR modules, I'd like to know what's the simultaneous engagement capacity of J-11D's radar? FC-20 and previous Chinese radars can lock onto 2 jets, and guide 2 missiles towards two target aircraft. How does the J-11D radar work with simultaneous engagement's standpoint?

I think the pulse-Doppler radars aboard the J-11B and first-batch J-15 can lock on to 4-6 targets, depending on the missile used. The J-10A's and JH-7A's radars can also fire four BVRAAMs in one go.

You have some good information Can you compare J-11 D with SU-35 and J-10 B with Rafale I am debating with some Pakistanis and they say J-11 D don't even close to matching SU-35 and also Rafale is far far superior to J-10 B so I want full details to answer them

I'm not the person to go to if you want full technical comparisons between the aircraft, but I'll try my best to make a judgment based on what tentative information we have:


- The J-11D and Su-35 differ mostly in the avionics (AESA vs PESA, respectively) as well as powerplant (140 kN w/o TVC vs 142 kN with TVC)
- J-11D and Su-35 both incorporate airframe enhancements, including additional RAM and composite materials
- J-11D and Su-35 share the role of air superiority and thus will likely sport similar sets of weaponry (PL-12, PL-21, and the PL ASR is expected for the J-11D while the R-77, R-37, etc, will be slated for the Su-35)
- I would expect the J-11D to sport a newer mission computer by virtue of it simply being a newer aircraft, although the Su-35 has likely undergone incremental upgrades as well

In short, the Su-35 and J-11D are very similar aircraft, both conceptually and operationallly. Technical nuances such as TVC and radar arrays can be judged by the customer and the specific requirements for which they are procured.

J-10B and Rafale:

- Both the J-10B and Rafale have advanced avionics (they are the first combat aircraft in Asia and Europe, respectively, to have a modernized and full-sized AESA radars); the J-10B's radar has 1200 T/R modules while the Rafale's RBE2 reportedly has around ~800.
- The Rafale's selling point is its advanced OSF and Spectra integrated EW system; the J-10B also has an "integrated electronic system" ranging from its radar to EW system that is connected by an optic HSDB (whatever that means), but I'm not exactly sure how it compares to the Spectra in terms of capabilities or role
- Both aircraft incorporate airframe enhancements (such as RAM and composite materials)
- Both aircraft are roughly comparable in size (although Rafale is a bit larger)
- When the J-10B is equipped with a Al-31FN M3 or WS-10B engine, its T/W ratio is slightly higher than that of the Rafale with its Snecma M88 engines

As with the above comparison, the J-10B and Rafale share the same niche with their differences being attributed to different needs and operating environments.
 
...capable of detecting a 0.1 m^2 target at 250 km or a 0.4 m^2 target at 280 km, which works out to a detection range (for a 1 m^2 target) of 450 km.
This is a general FYI to the readers on how these things are spec-ed out.

When a customer goes shopping for a radar system, be it for civilian air traffic control or military combat usage, the customer will say something like:

'I want a radar that will have a 90% probability of detection of a 5 m/square target at 200 km distance.'

Here is where it gets tricky...

It does not mean a body have a fixed radar cross section (RCS) of 5 m2. It mean a body -- any body -- become or develops an RCS value of 5 m2. When a customer specified a probability figure, an estimated RCS value, and a distance, he has good reasons for it.

1) If the vendor can meet the 5 m2 at 200 km distance requirements but only at 80% probability, the proposed system failed to meet specs.

2) If the vendor can meet the 5 m2 at 90% probability requirements but only at 190 km distance, the proposed system failed to meet specs.

3) If the vendor can meet the 5 m2 at 90% probability requirements but at 210 km distance, the proposed system exceeded specs.

Keep in mind that a body's radar cross section (RCS) is a fictitious value. The word 'fictitious' here does not mean it is made up. In a sense, it is made up, but in the technical sense, it mean the RCS value is a real value but also is a variable, or fluctuating, that is highly influenced by many external factors, and that is why there is a percentage of probability, or guess, that something have A or B or C cross section value.

For vendor 1, the proposed system set the distance as highest priority and widened the acceptable variability of probability that the target is (somewhere around) 5 m2. The vendor is perfectly free to do this.

For vendor 2, the proposed system set probability as highest priority, meaning that if the target is estimated to be 5 m2, under lab and field verification, the system has 90% probability of that estimation. Unfortunately, the target had to be 10 km closer to the radar in order to achieve that 90% probability estimation. The civilian customer may say that 10 km closer mean increased odds of mid-air collisions in a high traffic environment and refuse to buy. The military customer may say that 10 km closer mean the enemy can destroy a vital asset and refuse to buy.

For vendor 3, the proposed system may have superior technology than his competitors in terms of hardware and software so that no matter what priority was used, either distance out or probability of RCS, the superior technology compensated.

If the target is a B-52, this target may become 5 m2 with 90% probability at 400 km distance out for vendors 1 and 2, and at 500 km distance out for vendor 3.

If the target is a B-2, this target may become 5 m2 with 90% probability at 10 km distance out for vendor 1, at 5 km distance out for vendor 2, and 20 km distance out for vendor 3.

The customer can spec-ed the system at 1 m2 with 99% probability at 300 km distance out and all three vendors would fail to meet specs. The customer has to know, not just the current technology level but the level that is available to the vendors, before he make his specs. If a potential adversary have superior technology, he cannot make his specs based upon technology that is not available the vendors in his country. Obviously, he cannot go to this potential adversary and ask if their vendors make radars for him.

So take these public figures of what radar systems can do what at so-and-so distance with suspicion. Also understand that just because a radar system have XYZ specs, that does not mean it is a peer with other systems. The figures sounds impressive stand alone, but they may pales in comparisons to other systems from other countries precisely because the vendor do not have peer technologies.
 
Thanks ... by the way any news - esp. images - of the D-version ???
 
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I think the pulse-Doppler radars aboard the J-11B and first-batch J-15 can lock on to 4-6 targets, depending on the missile used. The J-10A's and JH-7A's radars can also fire four BVRAAMs in one go. .

Thank you. What about the J-10B's and J-11D's? What's the track, lock and target capability of these jets through their newer radars using BVR's?
 
Maths failed. :D Last post before this is 2010...

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"Are short-range American tactical fighters relevant in the Pacific theatre?" US defense expert Dave Majumdar asks, adding that F-22 Raptors and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters could be outperformed by the sheer numbers of Chinese jets.

China's J-11 fighter jets were designed as a copy of the Soviet-made Su-27/Su-33 Flanker, however, its new J-11D is considered the most advanced land-based single-seat Chinese aircraft.
Reportedly, the J-11D fighter jet is equipped with an active electronically scanned array (AESA), an air refueling system, and carries the fifth-generation PL-10 air-to-air missiles. Chinese media outlets claimed that it made its first flight in April 2015.

"China's Shengyang J-11 unlicensed derivative of the Russian-developed Su-27 Flanker has become the mainstay of the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). While the Chinese-built jets are not able to match US-built fighters one-for-one, China is building a lot of them," US defense expert Dave Majumdar pointed out in his article for the National Interest.

According to the expert, the J-11D "is very comparable" in a lot of respects with the Russian Su-35S. Last year Majumdar carried out a brief review of the Sukhoi Su-35S Flanker-E dubbing it "an extremely dangerous foe to any US fighter."
The expert elaborated that the J-11D is purportedly using radar absorbent materials in order to "reduce the jet's signature" and is equipped with an infrared search-and-track system (IRST) and revamped electronic warfare systems. In addition, the J-11D boasts China's most advanced WS-10 jet engine.

Majumdar insists that the US F-22 Raptors and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters are superior to their Chinese counterparts. However, US fighter jets need bases to operate from or tankers to refuel from, and that is where the shoe pinches, the expert noted.

"If there were to be a war in the Western Pacific, the massive air battles that many might envision, are not likely to take place because the United States and our allies have few bases in the region to host tactical fighters like the F-35," Majumdar pointed out, adding that in the event of a direct conflict China is almost certain to destroy these airbases.

"Further, without intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets, those jets couldn't be properly supported — and it becomes even more difficult when the Chinese attack the space assets and data networks that hold America's fighting forces together," the expert added.

Majumdar underscored that instead of mocking the F-35's chances of surviving in a dogfight, experts should answer the question: "Are short-range tactical fighters relevant in the Pacific theatre?"

Thorn in Pentagon's Side: China's New J-11D Jets Boast Advanced Features
 
"If there were to be a war in the Western Pacific, the massive air battles that many might envision, are not likely to take place because the United States and our allies

US and her allies--pussy mentality. Good for beating up Iraq, Panama, Grenada, but balked when Iran called them out.
 
US as usual have the habbit of over estimating their opponents and keep them in the mirage.
 

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