What's new

"Chinese" demand apology as Indonesian communist-purge film gets Oscar nod !

Status
Not open for further replies.

Daniel808

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
4,960
Reaction score
-8
Country
Indonesia
Location
Indonesia
An Indonesian movie's Oscar nomination has triggered heated discussions on Chinese social media this week, with the film's central theme -- a re-enactment of Indonesia's 1965-1966 anti-communist purge -- touching a sore point as this historical event has not been widely known to the mainland public.

The Act of Killing, an award-winning 2012 documentary focusing on a purge that killed more than 500,000 people, has been nominated in the Oscar's Best Documentary Feature category, and the report was carried by mainland newspapers including state mouthpiece People's Daily.

Anger and nationalistic sentiment were building on Tuesday as bloggers compared the Indonesian purge against suspected communists, many of whom were ethnic Chinese, to the 1937 Nanking Massacre where Japanese troops killed an estimated 300,000 Chinese.

Startled by the atrocities the film revealed, bloggers demanded that the Chinese government take a tougher stance against Indonesia and write the little-publicised killing into Chinese history books.

Others called for a tourism boycott against Bali, a now popular destination for Chinese tourists but which was the site of some of the worst killings in 1965.

On Sina Weibo, discussions of the 1965 killing also led to talks of Indonesia's 1998 anti-Chinese riots, during which thousands of ethnic Chinese were killed and hundreds of women were gang-raped, according to historical accounts. Gruesome pictures of their executions were posted, drawing anger and condemnation.

"China should stop sending any foreign aid to this barbarian country," wrote a microblogger.

"How brutal are you, Indonesia?" read other Weibo posts.


At one point, criticism was directed at the Chinese government for failing to rescue Chinese citizens during the 1998 riots. Yet other bloggers soon dismissed the accusation and argued that officials at the Chinese consulate at that time risked own lives to help Chinese nationals


In 1965, after the Indonesian Sukarno government was overthrown and replaced by a military regime led by General Suharto, the country’s right-wing leaders recruited gangs, known as "death squads", to wipe out suspected Communists.

It is estimated that 500,000 to more than a million were killed by local vigilantes and thugs from October 1965 to the early months of 1966. The massacre spread from Jakarta to Central and East Java and later, to the island of Bali.

In the film, American-British director Joshua Oppenheimer invited members of one such "death squad" to re-enact their killings for the cameras. Dramatic scenes were produced to depict their memories and feelings about the killings.

The killings are omitted in most Indonesian history books and had received little international attention, a fact that many Chinese bloggers found disturbing.

"Indonesia has never apologised over the 1998 massacre against the Chinese," wrote Shanghai-based consultant Chen Zonghe. "Both Indonesia and China have to step out and offer an explanation for this history."


Chinese demand apology as Indonesian communist-purge film gets Oscar nod | South China Morning Post

indonesia-jakarta-riots-files_jkt50_4556387.jpg

This 1998 photo shows angry Indonesian mobs burning cars and Chinese shops as they plundered shops in Jakarta. Photo: AFP

The-Act-of-Killing-Movie-Poster-Large.jpg


any Chinese Members watched this movie? o_O
 
Last edited:
An Indonesian movie's Oscar nomination has triggered heated discussions on Chinese social media this week, with the film's central theme -- a re-enactment of Indonesia's 1965-1966 anti-communist purge -- touching a sore point as this historical event has not been widely known to the mainland public.

The Act of Killing, an award-winning 2012 documentary focusing on a purge that killed more than 500,000 people, has been nominated in the Oscar's Best Documentary Feature category, and the report was carried by mainland newspapers including state mouthpiece People's Daily.

Anger and nationalistic sentiment were building on Tuesday as bloggers compared the Indonesian purge against suspected communists, many of whom were ethnic Chinese, to the 1937 Nanking Massacre where Japanese troops killed an estimated 300,000 Chinese.

Startled by the atrocities the film revealed, bloggers demanded that the Chinese government take a tougher stance against Indonesia and write the little-publicised killing into Chinese history books.

Others called for a tourism boycott against Bali, a now popular destination for Chinese tourists but which was the site of some of the worst killings in 1965.

On Sina Weibo, discussions of the 1965 killing also led to talks of Indonesia's 1998 anti-Chinese riots, during which thousands of ethnic Chinese were killed and hundreds of women were gang-raped, according to historical accounts. Gruesome pictures of their executions were posted, drawing anger and condemnation.

"China should stop sending any foreign aid to this barbarian country," wrote a microblogger.

"How brutal are you, Indonesia?" read other Weibo posts.


At one point, criticism was directed at the Chinese government for failing to rescue Chinese citizens during the 1998 riots. Yet other bloggers soon dismissed the accusation and argued that officials at the Chinese consulate at that time risked own lives to help Chinese nationals


In 1965, after the Indonesian Sukarno government was overthrown and replaced by a military regime led by General Suharto, the country’s right-wing leaders recruited gangs, known as "death squads", to wipe out suspected Communists.

It is estimated that 500,000 to more than a million were killed by local vigilantes and thugs from October 1965 to the early months of 1966. The massacre spread from Jakarta to Central and East Java and later, to the island of Bali.

In the film, American-British director Joshua Oppenheimer invited members of one such "death squad" to re-enact their killings for the cameras. Dramatic scenes were produced to depict their memories and feelings about the killings.

The killings are omitted in most Indonesian history books and had received little international attention, a fact that many Chinese bloggers found disturbing.

"Indonesia has never apologised over the 1998 massacre against the Chinese," wrote Shanghai-based consultant Chen Zonghe. "Both Indonesia and China have to step out and offer an explanation for this history."


Chinese demand apology as Indonesian communist-purge film gets Oscar nod | South China Morning Post

View attachment 15254
This 1998 photo shows angry Indonesian mobs burning cars and Chinese shops as they plundered shops in Jakarta. Photo: AFP

View attachment 15255

any Chinese Members watched this movie? o_O

Nope, apparently the keyboard warriors getting inflamed over this haven't watch it either.

1. Chinese Indonesians are NOT citizens of the PRC, they are citizens of Indonesia.

2. Its true, the Indonesian government didn't do anything during the 1998 riots against ethnic Chinese. Its also true that the Indonesian government also didn't do anything in 2001 when pagan Dayaks hacked several hundred Muslim Madurese to death in the Sampit conflict on Borneo, so I think that the Indonesian government didn't give a damn who was getting killed, regardless of ethnicity or religion. There are very graphic pictures on the internet of Dayaks waving the severed heads of beheaded Madurese people. I don't want to post them here, go look them up on Google. The Indonesian government was very lenient on the Dayaks, who pretty much got away with the massacre, had this happened in another country the fan would have been hit with flying dung.

Sampit conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BBC News | ASIA-PACIFIC | Horrors of Borneo massacre emerge

Muslim Malays also helped pagan Dayaks massacre Muslim Madurese in Borneo in the 1990s and early 2000s. These conflicts are ethnic in nature, not religious (except for Sulawesi with Christian and Muslim Indonesians killing each other)

Conflict, Violence, and Displacement in Indonesia - Google Books

The Indonesian government also didn't do anything when Indonesian Muslims and Christians started hacking each other to death in Sulawesi in 2001. Whatever the Indonesian government is- it isn't racist in saving people. You get massacred regardless of your race or religion and have nowhere to call for help.

BBC News | ASIA-PACIFIC | Analysis: Roots of Sulawesi conflict

Where the Heck is Central Sulawesi and Why Should I Care?

3. Majority of the 500,000-600,000 "Communists" who were massacred in the 1960s were Indonesian Abangan Muslims, not Chinese, its just that Chinese suffered more attacks in proportion to their size and percentage.

The Communist Party of Indonesia: 1951-1963 - Donald Hindley - Google Books

Peasant Rebellion and Communist Revolution in Asia - Google Books

My Friend the Fanatic: Travels with an Indonesian Islamist - Sadanand Dhume - Google Books

Indonesia: A Global Studies Handbook - Florence Lamoureux - Google Books

Sufism and the 'Modern' in Islam - Google Books

4. During the 1960s riots, the pagan Dayaks were urged by Suharto in Borneo to attack and massacre Chinese, alot of the killings of Chinese there were done by these Dayak pagans. (Before ephone goes on a stupid rant about Indonesian Muslims killing non-muslims).

Anomie and Violence: Non-truth and Reconciliation in Indonesian Peacebuilding - John Braithwaite, Valerie Braithwaite, Michael Cookson, Leah Dunn - Google Books

The Limits of Tradition: Peasants and Land Conflicts in Indonesia - Mariko Urano - Google Books

Conflict, Violence, and Displacement in Indonesia - Google Books

Southeast Asia: Essays in Political Geography - Lee Yong Leng - Google Books

The Hakkas of Sarawak: Sacrificial Gifts in Cold War Era Malaysia - Kee Howe Yong - Google Books


Chinese government rarely cares of their citizens if they fell as victims in foreign countries. They killed themselves anyway in waves throughout history. Life is cheap.

500,000 deaths in Indonesia, no problem
2,000,000 deaths in Cambodia, no problem
...
but beware if Vietnam intervenes they will start a war against us. it is Chinese logic.

Chinese in Indonesia, Cambodia, and Malaysia ARE NOT CITIZENS OF CHINA, THEY ARE INDONESIAN, CAMBODIAN, AND MALAYSIAN CITIZENS.
 
Last edited:
Nope, apparently the keyboard warriors getting inflamed over this haven't watch it either.

1. Chinese Indonesians are NOT citizens of the PRC, they are citizens of Indonesia.

2. Its true, the Indonesian government didn't do anything during the 1998 riots against ethnic Chinese. Its also true that the Indonesian government also didn't do anything in 2001 when pagan Dayaks hacked several hundred Muslim Madurese to death, so I think that the Indonesian government didn't give a damn who was getting killed, regardless of ethnicity or religion. There are very graphic pictures on the internet of Dayaks waving the severed heads of beheaded Madurese people. I don't want to post them, go look them up on Google.

Sampit conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BBC News | ASIA-PACIFIC | Horrors of Borneo massacre emerge

3. Majority of the 500,000-600,000 "Communists" who were massacred in the 1960s were Indonesian Abangan Muslims, not Chinese, its just that Chinese suffered more attacks in proportion to their size and percentage.

The Communist Party of Indonesia: 1951-1963 - Donald Hindley - Google Books

Peasant Rebellion and Communist Revolution in Asia - Google Books


My Friend the Fanatic: Travels with an Indonesian Islamist - Sadanand Dhume - Google Books

Indonesia: A Global Studies Handbook - Florence Lamoureux - Google Books

Sufism and the 'Modern' in Islam - Google Books

4. During the 1960s riots, the pagan Dayaks were urged by Suharto in Borneo to attack and massacre Chinese, alot of the killings of Chinese there were done by these Dayak pagans. (Before ephone goes on a stupid rant about Indonesian Muslims killing non-muslims).

Anomie and Violence: Non-truth and Reconciliation in Indonesian Peacebuilding - John Braithwaite, Valerie Braithwaite, Michael Cookson, Leah Dunn - Google Books

The Limits of Tradition: Peasants and Land Conflicts in Indonesia - Mariko Urano - Google Books

Conflict, Violence, and Displacement in Indonesia - Google Books

Southeast Asia: Essays in Political Geography - Lee Yong Leng - Google Books

The Hakkas of Sarawak: Sacrificial Gifts in Cold War Era Malaysia - Kee Howe Yong - Google Books




Chinese in Indonesia, Cambodia, and Malaysia ARE NOT CITIZENS OF CHINA, THEY ARE INDONESIAN, CAMBODIAN, AND MALAYSIAN CITIZENS.


Wrong. You are to provide your "correct" mis-information again to lead people into wrong conclusion. This whoegrain guy has problem in credibility.
 
I would have to say, the timing of this film is kinda bad. I do understand its purpose and admitting these history takes courage, but the current political atmosphere in southeast Asia region isn't exactly cozy and add fuel to the fire is bad.

Chinese government rarely cares of their citizens if they fell as victims in foreign countries. They killed themselves anyway in waves throughout history. Life is cheap.

500,000 deaths in Indonesia, no problem
2,000,000 deaths in Cambodia, no problem
...
but beware if Vietnam intervenes they will start a war against us. it is Chinese logic.

Erm, since when there are 2000000 Chinese CITIZENS in Cambodia or Indonesia? Look, we do care about other Chinese descendants, but if they are citizens of another country, what we could do is limited without infringing on other nation's sovereignty.
Take the Indonesia cases for example, during the 60s, PRC sent ships prior to the purge to take anyone who is willing to come back to China. Those who were willing to come and their descendents still lives in China today. Those who stayed...well, it didn't end well for them. The same thing happened in the 90s, where the PRC ambassador and representatives arrived with passports to give out and are willing to grant sanctuary to anyone who would accept. Those who accepted were protected in Chinese consulates and didn't suffer from the riots. We can't save them if they are not willing to accept our help.
 
I would have to say, the timing of this film sucked. I do understand its purpose, but the current political atmosphere in southeast Asia region isn't exactly cozy and add fuel to the fire is bad.



Erm, since when there are 2000000 Chinese CITIZENS in Cambodia or Indonesia? Look, we do care about other Chinese descendants, but if they are citizens of another country, what we could do is limited without infringing on other nation's sovereignty.
Take the Indonesia cases for example, during the 60s, PRC sent ships prior to the purge to take anyone who is willing to come back to China. Those who were willing to come and their descendents still lives in China today. Those who stayed...well, it didn't end well for them. The same thing happened in the 90s, where the PRC ambassador and representatives arrived with passports to give out and are willing to grant sanctuary to anyone who would accept. Those who accepted were protected in Chinese consulates and didn't suffer from the riots. We can't save them if they are not willing to accept our help.

There are limited projection capability of PRC. Nevertheless I would say Mao take human life lightly in both China Chinese and one must not expect him to cherish the life of oversea Chinese.

Also Mao had not been right about Vietnam and her anti Chinese sentiment, as well as nationalistic and independence tendency. Not just Indonesia, Vietnam and Cambodia Chinese got killed and expelled.

Life of SE Asia Chinese become better after Deng Xiaoping regain his senses, but that is a little too late.
 
I would have to say, the timing of this film is kinda bad. I do understand its purpose and admitting these history takes courage, but the current political atmosphere in southeast Asia region isn't exactly cozy and add fuel to the fire is bad.



Erm, since when there are 2000000 Chinese CITIZENS in Cambodia or Indonesia? Look, we do care about other Chinese descendants, but if they are citizens of another country, what we could do is limited without infringing on other nation's sovereignty.
Take the Indonesia cases for example, during the 60s, PRC sent ships prior to the purge to take anyone who is willing to come back to China. Those who were willing to come and their descendents still lives in China today. Those who stayed...well, it didn't end well for them. The same thing happened in the 90s, where the PRC ambassador and representatives arrived with passports to give out and are willing to grant sanctuary to anyone who would accept. Those who accepted were protected in Chinese consulates and didn't suffer from the riots. We can't save them if they are not willing to accept our help.

When people like Viet start making off topic political attacks its time to call the mods

@Hu Songshan
 
There are limited projection capability of PRC. Nevertheless I would say Mao take human life lightly in both China Chinese and one must not expect him to cherish the life of oversea Chinese.

Also Mao had not been right about Vietnam and her anti Chinese sentiment, as well as nationalistic and independence tendency. Not just Indonesia, Vietnam and Cambodia Chinese got killed and expelled.

Life of SE Asia Chinese become better after Deng Xiaoping regain his senses, but that is a little too late.
Hey,Don't blame others for your own pain.We don't have responsibility to protect you SE Asian Chinese.
 
There are heavy involvement of Muslim groups in the purge of communist. The killers are Suharto aka army, USA/Australia/UK and Muslim groups.

They are generally not specifically targeting Chinese but Chinese being over-represented in PKI suffered lots of collateral damage.

Indonesia Today: Challenges of History - Google Books

Reconciling Indonesia: Grassroots Agency for Peace - Google Books

This may not be seen as Indonesian against Chinese but more so as Right wing guys against communist. The Islamist rightly perceived that communist are their enemies.

With the decimation of left wing people in Indonesia, she embarked on a slow descend into Islamofacism. Nevertheless, the Sukarno legacy is still there and pancasila still reverberate among Indonesian. Indonesian do not sink to the sick mind of Malaysian Malay. And a lot of Indonesian elites are secular and have progressive outlook.


Hey,Don't blame others for your own pain.We don't have responsibility to protect you SE Asian Chinese.

You guys export revolution. No one wants your protection.
 
To put it in short, the PRC sponsored Pol Pot are killing people in Cambodia and it was exposed. The USA sponsored killings in Indonesia was still not very exposed and far less people knew.

Yes,that failed bad.But why are you blaming us?We don't blame Soviet for the cult revolution ang the great leap.

Not exactly blaming you guys (or may I did) but stating the fact that PRC exporting communist did caused trouble. I am neutral in words.

Look, I am blaming USA as well.
 
They shouldn't have hoped that PRC would help them.We don't have the responsibility to save them.After all,they don't give one penny to the PRC government.As long as china haven't became a world police country like USA,they should take up guns to protect themselves instead of running and being butchered like pathetic chickens.

yes, That's true and that the fact :-)
We are 100% Indonesian Citizens not PRC Citizen.

and Honestly for 1998 Riots, we Indonesian Born Chinese hope much better to Australia and Singapore, Not PRC.

But for Many Racist Indonesian, whatever and whenever, they always see us as 'CHINESE Pig' who being dumped by PRC Cause their country overcrowded by One Billion People. That's what Indonesian Racist see:(

But Right now, the Condition is bit Different. many Indonesian Right now have Open-Minded and see Indonesian born Chinese as part of Indonesian Diversity :-) but yes, I must to say, there is still racism in Indonesia.
 
1. Chinese Indonesians are NOT citizens of the PRC, they are citizens of Indonesia.

Exactly right.

These people are not Chinese citizens, they are Indonesian/Malaysian citizens.

We have a duty to look after our own Chinese nationals first. If other countries have such problems with their own people, frankly it is not a priority for us. We have plenty of our own problems to worry about.
 
Exactly right.

These people are not Chinese citizens, they are Indonesian/Malaysian citizens.

We have a duty to look after our own Chinese nationals first. If other countries have such problems with their own people, frankly it is not a priority for us. We have plenty of our own problems to worry about.

You are not too right. All the nuance are known only among SE Asian Chinese and PRC scholars.

Many of those Indonesian that got shitt are PRC citizens. The discrimination against Chinese were so bad at a time that a lot of resentment are generated for the proposal of granting Chinese citizenship in Malaya as well as Indonesia.

Below is an example.

Discrimination against Chinese Indonesians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1955, Zhou Enlai declared that Chinese citizenship was jus sanguinis. This led to a treaty between China and Indonesia regarding the legal status of Chinese Indonesians, which formed the basis for the Citizenship Law of 1958.This law required all Chinese Indonesians to choose between Chinese and Indonesian citizenship, making a statement at the nearest district court.Approximately 390,000 ethnic Chinese rejected Chinese citizenship.

The PRC in PDF need to study more.
 
back then we were poor and weak.

If the same thing were to happen now, well, the PLA won't be an army without experience anymore.

Back then moving to ASEAN was reasonable due to better economic prospects and maybe even for political persecution, but today whoever moves to ASEAN as a refugee or immigrant not for business reasons is stupid.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom