Chinese cars 'still below par'

[Götterdämmerung]

WTF do you mean export stats you clown? Why would exports be a big factor in a large and rising native market you goddamn joker? Do you know ANYTHING ?

The Chinese market is rising even faster and they still export more cars than you. AND you guys were bragging that your cars are well positioned in all major markets and export to all corners of the world.

Show me the stats!

 

[Guynextdoor2]

in general I dont think VW are aiming at the same market segments

This is a VW classic made in China:

This is a high end, low volume car. But they've been desperately trying to make a bid for mass market presence with the Polo-- and losing big time. Even the Skoda brand isn't doing well in comparison to Hyundai. Hyundai has succefully put itself in the higher end sedan segment kicking vento, jetta etc, out. Super Premium Off Landers are now dominated by Toyota and Ford. Ultra Premium- obviously Jaguar and Land Rover.

The Chinese market is rising even faster and they still export more cars than you. AND you guys were bragging that your cars are well positioned in all major markets and export to all corners of the world.

Show me the stats!

I know this is going to be difficult for you to understand because of the complexity of logic but...listen carefully...in saturated, low growth markets, most viable way to enter is through acquisitions...now do you want me to repeat that more slowly??? So when VW finally starts bleeding, we'll cut up the company, split it with teh chinese and then start exporting to you... does that sound ok???

 

[Götterdämmerung]

This is a high end, low volume car. But they've been desperately trying to make a bid for mass market presence with the Polo-- and losing big time. Even the Skoda brand isn't doing well in comparison to Hyundai. Hyundai has succefully put itself in the higher end sedan segment kicking vento, jetta etc, out. Super Premium Off Landers are now dominated by Toyota and Ford. Ultra Premium- obviously Jaguar and Land Rover.



I know this is going to be difficult for you to understand because of the complexity of logic but...listen carefully...in saturated, low growth markets, most viable way to enter is through acquisitions...now do you want me to repeat that more slowly??? So when VW finally starts bleeding, we'll cut up the company, split it with teh chinese and then start exporting to you... does that sound ok???

First of all, Jaguar and Land Rover are not ultra premium but just upper middle class cars. Ultra premium would be RR, Bentley and Bugatti, all owned by German companies.

Our car companies have been making M&A for decades now and we are aware of the situation of our market, that's why we have been investing in all major markets with factories and brand aquisition.

Don't try to teach a German how the car industry works. We are not for nothing the benchmark of the car industry in all aspects!

 

[shuttler]

China, biggest customer for VW luxury cars
Updated: 2012-10-04 10:06By Fu Jing in Wolfsburg, Germany (China Daily)

China has increasingly replaced the United States as the biggest market for luxury vehicles related to Germany's Volkswagen Group, a senior analyst said.

Sales of vehicles in China from Bentley Motors Ltd and Porsche SE in China are expected to surpass those in the US this year, said Jimmy Jin, head of Market Intelligence China and ASEAN, at Volkswagen headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany.

A working staff passes a Volkswagen's Golf Cabriolet on July 30, 2012 at the Harbin International Auto Show. [Photo / Xinhua]




Bentley is a VW subsidiary, and Porsche owns a controlling stake in VW.

The development comes after sales in China of vehicles from VW Group subsidiary Lamborghini SpA topped US sales in 2011.

"The luxury brands sell well these years in China because of new wealth," Jin told China Daily on the sideline of a Chinese business delegation's visit to Germany.

Lamborghini sales this year might be the same as last, at about 400 units, Jin said.

As for Bentleys, China sales have increased tenfold within the past several years, Jin said. "China will overtake the US to become the No 1 market of Bentleys this year," said Jin, adding that sales will reach 2,300 units this year, up from 1,779 in 2011.

In 2011, the top three markets for Bentleys were the US, China and the UK.

As for Porsche, China might replace the US as the top market for this brand if sales reach 31,000 units this year, Jin said. In 2011, the top three countries were the US, China and Germany.

VW had the fastest growth rate in the Chinese market from January through August, with 1.7 million vehicles delivered.

The growth has led VW's market share in China to rise to 20.4 percent during the January-to-August period, followed by the General Motors Co at 10 percent.

Jin said the sales of major Volkswagen Group brands is expected to surpass 2 million annually. "This goal will be achieved definitely," said Jin.

If Volkswagen Group attains that goal, it will represent a sales growth of 22 percent compared with 2011. In 2009, sales reached 1.15 million, while in 2006, the total was 627,801.

"This is how important the Chinese market is for us," said Jin.

Jin is also confident about the performance of Audi AG, another VW Group subsidiary, whose vehicles are used mainly for governmental and business procurement. He predicted that sales of Audis in China will surpass 400,000 this year, gaining a 30 percent annual increase from 2011.

Jin said Audi sales in China have grown "very rapidly" these years, which have witnessed financial crisis in 2008-09 and unfolding European sovereign debt crisis. In 2006, sales were only 81,700.

fujing@chinadaily.com.cn

 

[jhungary]

Sure, I need a crash course in English from you, right? LOL

Listen up bro, VFM isn't bad, VFM isn't CRAP as you like to say it. Simply put it's just VFM. Chinese can make it cheap not because the parts are sub-standard, it's because of "cheap labor".
Where in the world would you get a bowl of noodles for 3 bucks? It's probably 4 or 5 now. And I mean RMB, I give two **** to USDs.

In about 10 years from now, we'll have this conversation(if you're not 60 presently) lol, till then....

I agree all along, VFM is not bad. Actually for that price range, I am amazed that many Great wall vehicle even have USB and Blue Tooth connectivity.

But the standard of the Chinese car WHEN COMPARE TO American, European, Japanese, they are a second grade, there are no word to express their quality but the word "BAD". of Course those export model would be considered to be of 'Good Quality" if they are comparing them to the local Chinese market car.

I can provide evidence apart from what Jeremy Clarkson say to support my point that Chinese car is generally of bad quality

Great Wall Motors X240 SUV Review Review | Car Verdict 1.5/5 star
Great Wall range lacks safety | carsguide.com.au Cars guide said the price is high and lacking safety, and they actually go on record and say they prefer the Indian Brand......
Great Wall Motors X240 4WD Review |*CarAdvice car advice gave the car again 1.5 out of 5

Well, unless you can translate all those review into a GOOD quality, I would say 1.5 out of 5 cannot be called average quality too.

Chinese car is good value for money, but still of bad quality, , again, not only me saying, but people who drove the car, people who review the cars agrees too.

And dude, I am not talking about 10 years from now, who knows what happen 10 years from now, if you want to talk about 10 years from now, then please come back and talk to me 10 years from now.

 

[jhungary]

Price is not even the concern.

What @jhungary is saying is that your build quality and engineered cars are not even worth considering.

Well, different people have different view on driving, some people really do only look at the price. As I said, 23,999 AUD per ute is more than make some everyday Aussie drool all over the floor. People like that almost always don't look at build quality. As long as it have 4 wheels and can move on its own, it would more than enough to make them buy it. Hence this is what low price range car is for.

 

[shuttler]

Best selling cars - Russia-full-year-2012

Top 56 All-brands Ranking Tables

Pos Brand 2012 % /11 2011 Pos
1 Lada 537,625 18.4% -7% 578,387 1
2 Chevrolet 205,042 7.1% 18% 173,484 2
3 Renault 189,852 6.4% 23% 154,734 4
4 Kia 187,330 6.4% 23% 152,873 5
5 Hyundai 174,286 6.0% 7% 163,447 3
6 Volkswagen 164,702 5.6% 40% 118,003 9
7 Nissan 153,747 5.3% 11% 138,827 6
8 Toyota 153,046 5.2% 28% 119,505 7
9 Ford 130,809 4.3% 11% 118,031 8
10 Skoda 99,062 3.3% 34% 74,074 13
11 GAZ 90,247 3.0% 0% 90,034 11
12 Daewoo 88,232 3.0% -5% 92,778 10
13 Opel 81,242 2.7% 20% 67,555 14
14 Mitsubishi 72,294 2.5% -3% 74,166 12
15 UAZ 60,653 2.0% 6% 57,148 15
16 Mazda 44,443 1.5% 12% 39,718 17
17 Peugeot 44,420 1.5% 0% 44,304 16
18 BMW 37,515 1.2% 33% 28,165 21
19 Mercedes 37,436 1.3% 29% 29,058 19
20 Audi 33,512 1.2% 44% 23,250 23
21 Citroen 32,859 1.1% 19% 27,638 22
22 Suzuki 32,684 1.1% -8% 35,469 18
23 SsangYong 31,198 1.0% 37% 22,692 24
24 Honda 21,512 0.7% 13% 19,101 27
25 Lifan 20,544 0.7% 15% 17,916 28
26 Volvo 20,364 0.7% 6% 19,209 26
27 Land Rover 19,043 0.6% 44% 13,183 30
28 Chery 19,004 0.7% 161% 7,278 35
29 Geely 17,566 0.6% 190% 6,060 38
30 Volkswagen NFZ 16,161 0.5% 31% 12,345 32
31 Lexus 15,653 0.5% 14% 13,698 29
32 Great Wall 14,373 0.5% 112% 6,777 37
33 Subaru 14,296 0.5% 16% 12,371 31
34 ZAZ 9,964 0.4% -50% 20,049 25
35 Infiniti 9,209 0.3% 31% 7,042 36
36 Fiat 8,623 0.3% -69% 28,254 20
37 Bogdan 7,512 0.3% -13% 8,683 34
38 Vortex 5,953 0.2% -51% 12,103 33
39 Jeep 4,704 0.2% 125% 2,093 44
40 Mercedes Vans 3,974 0.1% 47% 2,702 41
41 Porsche 3,613 0.1% 64% 2,202 43
42 BYD 2,630 0.1% 31% 2,004 45
43 Mini 2,629 0.1% 31% 2,002 46
44 Seat 2,500 0.1% 122% 1,127 49
45 Izh 2,465 0.1% -52% 5,163 39
46 Cadillac 2,024 0.1% -9% 2,226 42
47 BAW 1,845 0.1% n/a n/a n/a
48 Jaguar 1,506 0.1% 27% 1,182 48
49 TagAZ 1,331 0.0% -28% 1,840 47
50 Haima 591 0.0% -81% 3,114 40
51 FAW 560 0.0% new 0 -
52 Dodge 206 0.0% 30% 158 51
53 Chrysler 194 0.0% 155% 76 53
54 Isuzu 156 0.0% -58% 371 50
55 Foton 141 0.0% 5% 134 52
56 Smart 28 0.0% new 0 -

To China bashing losers: not every one is looking into the cr@ppy western reports and this is one place - Russia where our cars are sold and sales is above the previous year. Haters gonna hate, losers!

 

[shuttler]

Australia January 2013 and year of 2012 total – brands:

Pos Brand Jan-13 % Dec 2012 % Pos
1 Toyota 13,375 15.7% 1 218,176 19.6% 1
2 Mazda 8,912 10.4% 2 103,886 9.3% 3
3 Holden 8,811 10.3% 3 114,665 10.3% 2
4 Ford 7,721 9.0% 5 90,408 8.1% 5
5 Nissan 7,248 8.5% 6 79,747 7.2% 6
6 Hyundai 6,816 8.0% 4 91,536 8.2% 4
7 Mitsubishi 4,449 5.2% 8 58,868 5.3% 7
8 Volkswagen 3,824 4.5% 7 54,835 4.9% 8
9 Honda 3,816 4.5% 9 35,812 3.2% 10
10 Subaru 3,104 3.6% 10 40,189 3.6% 9
11 Kia 2,308 2.7% 13 30,758 2.8% 11
12 Suzuki 1,834 2.1% 12 24,057 2.2% 12
13 Mercedes 1,759 2.1% 11 22,397 2.0% 13
14 Jeep 1,642 1.9% 14 18,014 1.6% 15
15 Audi 1,345 1.6% 16 14,535 1.3% 16
16 BMW 1,301 1.5% 15 18,413 1.7% 14
17 Land Rover 834 1.0% 19 7,929 0.7% 18
18 Isuzu Ute 660 0.8% 18 7,782 0.7% 19
19 Great Wall 657 0.8% 17 11,006 1.0% 17
20 Volvo Car 463 0.5% 22 5,375 0.5% 21
21 Lexus 430 0.5% 21 6,839 0.6% 20
22 Peugeot 404 0.5% 24 5,071 0.5% 22
23 Renault 331 0.4% 20 5,011 0.5% 23
24 Skoda 252 0.3% 30 3,502 0.3% 24
25 Porsche 209 0.2% 34 1,373 0.1% 30
26 Chrysler 170 0.2% 23 1,359 0.1% 31
27 Mini 161 0.2% 25 2,394 0.2% 25
28 Citroen 157 0.2% 27 1,702 0.2% 27
29 Fiat 143 0.2% 26 1,432 0.1% 29
30 Ssangyong 124 0.1% 31 1,590 0.1% 28
31 Opel 109 0.1% 29 541 0.0% 36
32 Dodge 94 0.1% 28 2,028 0.2% 26
33 Chery 94 0.1% 36 1,133 0.1% 32
34 Alfa Romeo 90 0.1% 32 906 0.1% 34
35 Jaguar 90 0.1% 33 786 0.1% 35
36 Proton 50 0.1% 35 1,005 0.1% 33
37 Bentley 26 0.0% 46 65 0.0% 43
38 Smart 14 0.0% 37 142 0.0% 37
39 Maserati 12 0.0% 42 124 0.0% 38
40 Ferrari 11 0.0% 38 98 0.0% 39
41 Infiniti 10 0.0% 39 85 0.0% 41
42 Aston Martin 8 0.0% 40 94 0.0% 40
43 Lamborghini 7 0.0% 47 41 0.0% 44
44 Lotus 4 0.0% 41 69 0.0% 42
45 McLaren 2 0.0% 44 23 0.0% 46
46 Morgan 2 0.0% 45 16 0.0% 48
47 Rolls-Royce 1 0.0% 43 22 0.0% 47
48 Caterham 1 0.0% 49 3 0.0% 49
49 Saab 0 0.0% 48 27 0.0% 45

 

[timetravel]

Chinese focus more on looks only. Chinese cars look good from outside. But the performance is not good.

Indian car manufacturers have been focusing over the years on the performance of the cars and in their own R&D efforts.

Indian cars are tougher and more reliable and lasts for decades while the Chinese would only last a few years.

Indian cars - Safe, Reliable and UNIQUE

Chinese cars - Unsafe, Unreliable and NOT UNIQUE

Chinese cars would never be a success in India as they cannot give the reliability of a Indian made car.

 

[shuttler]

Full December 2012 Top 30 Ranking Table below.

Dongfeng S30

Haima 7

Venezuela December and total of 2012:

Pos Model Dec % Nov 2012 % Pos 2011
1 Civetchi/DongFeng S30 583 7.1% 26 693 0.5% 40 -
2 Toyota Hilux 553 6.7% 5 2,898 2.2% 16 23
3 Ford Explorer 502 6.1% 14 5,030 3.9% 7 15
4 Ford F350 449 5.5% 7 6,805 5.2% 4 3
5 Mitsubishi Lancer 439 5.4% 4 6,492 5.0% 5 6
6 Mazda BT-50 400 4.9% 1 2,663 2.0% 18 n/a
7 Kia Rio 351 4.3% 17 2,603 2.0% 19 17
8 Ford Fiesta 331 4.0% 11 7,691 5.9% 2 2
9 Fiat Siena 292 3.6% - 1,050 0.8% 27 n/a
10 Chevrolet Silverado 287 3.5% 2 3,460 2.7% 11 12
11 Haima 7 274 3.3% 30 352 0.3% 48 -
12 Kia Sportage 273 3.3% 22 2,443 1.9% 22 18
13 Chevrolet Aveo 256 3.1% 6 16,542 12.7% 1 1
14 Toyota Corolla 251 3.1% 12 6,134 4.7% 6 7
15 Ford F250 251 3.1% 19 2,516 1.9% 20 19
16 VW SpaceFox 238 2.9% 20 1,401 1.1% 25 n/a
17 Chevrolet Orlando 238 2.9% 10 743 0.6% 39 -
18 Chevrolet Cruze 232 2.8% 3 7,281 5.6% 3 22
19 Toyota Fortuner 232 2.8% 15 4,357 3.3% 9 13
20 Jeep Cherokee 192 2.3% 8 3,931 3.0% 10 16
21 Jeep Grand Cherokee 163 2.0% 13 4,427 3.4% 8 5
22 Iveco Chasis Daily 119 1.5% 34 434 0.3% 45 n/a
23 Civetchi Mini 89 1.1% 25 784 0.6% 38 n/a
24 Chevrolet Optra 85 1.0% 16 2,727 2.1% 17 4
25 Chevrolet NPR 84 1.0% 9 3,117 2.4% 14 25
26 Hyundai HD72 77 0.9% n/a 163 0.1% n/a -
27 Kia Pregio 68 0.8% 27 971 0.7% 31 n/a
28 Iveco Daily 61 0.7% 24 945 0.7% 33 31
29 Mitsubishi Canter 59 0.7% 23 1,061 0.8% 26 29
30 Mitsubishi L300 56 0.7% 33 815 0.6% 37 n/a

 

[jhungary]

China, biggest customer for VW luxury cars
Updated: 2012-10-04 10:06By Fu Jing in Wolfsburg, Germany (China Daily)

China has increasingly replaced the United States as the biggest market for luxury vehicles related to Germany's Volkswagen Group, a senior analyst said.

Sales of vehicles in China from Bentley Motors Ltd and Porsche SE in China are expected to surpass those in the US this year, said Jimmy Jin, head of Market Intelligence China and ASEAN, at Volkswagen headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany.

A working staff passes a Volkswagen's Golf Cabriolet on July 30, 2012 at the Harbin International Auto Show. [Photo / Xinhua]




Bentley is a VW subsidiary, and Porsche owns a controlling stake in VW.

The development comes after sales in China of vehicles from VW Group subsidiary Lamborghini SpA topped US sales in 2011.

"The luxury brands sell well these years in China because of new wealth," Jin told China Daily on the sideline of a Chinese business delegation's visit to Germany.

Lamborghini sales this year might be the same as last, at about 400 units, Jin said.

As for Bentleys, China sales have increased tenfold within the past several years, Jin said. "China will overtake the US to become the No 1 market of Bentleys this year," said Jin, adding that sales will reach 2,300 units this year, up from 1,779 in 2011.

In 2011, the top three markets for Bentleys were the US, China and the UK.

As for Porsche, China might replace the US as the top market for this brand if sales reach 31,000 units this year, Jin said. In 2011, the top three countries were the US, China and Germany.

VW had the fastest growth rate in the Chinese market from January through August, with 1.7 million vehicles delivered.

The growth has led VW's market share in China to rise to 20.4 percent during the January-to-August period, followed by the General Motors Co at 10 percent.

Jin said the sales of major Volkswagen Group brands is expected to surpass 2 million annually. "This goal will be achieved definitely," said Jin.

If Volkswagen Group attains that goal, it will represent a sales growth of 22 percent compared with 2011. In 2009, sales reached 1.15 million, while in 2006, the total was 627,801.

"This is how important the Chinese market is for us," said Jin.

Jin is also confident about the performance of Audi AG, another VW Group subsidiary, whose vehicles are used mainly for governmental and business procurement. He predicted that sales of Audis in China will surpass 400,000 this year, gaining a 30 percent annual increase from 2011.

Jin said Audi sales in China have grown "very rapidly" these years, which have witnessed financial crisis in 2008-09 and unfolding European sovereign debt crisis. In 2006, sales were only 81,700.

fujing@chinadaily.com.cn

umm, this news is about Foreign Car selling in China, not Chinese car selling in Foreign market.
What does that have to do with Chinese Automotive industries?? And the quality of Chinese Car?? If it says anything, it's only indicating that Chinese customer is MOVING AWAY from local Chinese brand, not a good sign if you want to represent their quality...

 

[shuttler]

umm, this news is about Foreign Car selling in China, not Chinese car selling in Foreign market.
What does that have to do with Chinese Automotive industries?? And the quality of Chinese Car??

you fail to follow thru the whole chain of discussion
also VW are manufacturing in China plants albeit under JVs

Get it?

 

[sweetgrape]

H6

H8

 

[jhungary]

you fail to follow thru the whole chain of discussion
also VW are manufacturing in China plants albeit under JVs

Get it?

I love how Chinese having double standard.......

When something perform well, as long as there are a small notation of that's related to China, you call them CHinese

Saying VW is Chinese car is the same as saying BMW is a British Brand.

Dude, who owning those company does not matter, otherwise we would have to call Jaguar and ASTON Martin an Indian company, which you refused to claim they are.

Oh, but when VW are doing well, then suddenly they are not German anymore, they are Chinese company.

Really, have you head check please

 

[sweetgrape]

BYD SR

S5