Chinese carrier: Vietnam and other neighbors response

[UKBengali]

A grossly inaccurate article.


For a start, by the time that the Varyag is fully operational by next summer the number of operational Type-052C destroyers will be around 4 and 2 more will follow shortly. These can always be supplemented by 18 Type-054A frigates that are massively capable as well.

The Varyag will have a very competent AEW in the Z-8. This will be by far the most capable helicopter-borne AEW in the world due to the huge size of the Z-8(>20m). It will be an AESA based radar and will be able to track dozens of air and surface targets for a couple of hundred kms around the carrier.

There is pretty much no way that the Varyag could hold 40 J-15 fighters. There is simply not enough space. Around 30 is more likely. However, taking into account the fact that the Varyag will carry a massive AESA radar and the long-range PL-12D(with the possiblity of the PL-21D ramjet powered missile), it will pretty much be able to hold off any fighter in Asia that is currently operational.

As for the submarine element, China is currently producing advanced diesel electric subs that are pretty much state of the art and the newer Type-095SSN is in the works.


All in all, China will have a decisive edge in naval strength in East Asia when the Varyag is operational

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Everyone can build whatever he wants.

If you can build, then build it by yourself and stop whining.

 

[rai_kamal]

Everyone can build whatever he wants.

If you can build, then build it by yourself and stop whining.

Yes,he is absolutely correct...
The Chinese have developed latest technology by THEMSELF and the world should accept it.....
HAHAHAHAH...I cn't stop myself...lolz...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes,he is absolutely correct...
The Chinese have developed latest technology by THEMSELF and the world should accept it.....
HAHAHAHAH...I cn't stop myself...lolz...

I still thanked you for that post even i know it was a sarcasm, lol.

China may not invent it, but the word 'copy' is simply too much.

Do you really think the high technology can be copied, then everyone can copy it, even Somalia can copy it.

 

[rai_kamal]

Somalia need people,power and most important money...
which they don't have...
BTW it's off topic...
U can continue with your discussion..

 

[below_freezing]

If India wants to be totally creative, they should scrap all paper, and write with animalhide scrolls.

 

[rai_kamal]

If India wants to be totally creative, they should scrap all paper, and write with animalhide scrolls.

Atleast v r not alleged for coping any technology,as china already had the privilege...
Again it is offtopic...
Just continue with the older discussion...
Otherwise the computer i m using is from china only and it will crash any time...

 

[nomi007]

Vietnam and other neighbors response will very dangerous they just call USA for help

 

[Shinigami]

I still thanked you for that post even i know it was a sarcasm, lol.

China may not invent it, but the word 'copy' is simply too much.

Do you really think the high technology can be copied, then everyone can copy it, even Somalia can copy it.

this thread is about strategic implications about china and her neighbors due to Varyag. where does "copy" come in this. dont go off topic

 

[Black Widow]

although its actual range is not disclosed..but its very lethal from where ever it gets launched
it cant be intercepted...2-3 brahmos enough for carrier

I disagree.. You need dozen of cruise missiles and lot of luck to bring down AC. I said the same for Chinese Carrier killer or Taiwanese carrier killer.

I will say the same for brahmos..

 

[Nav]

I keep wondering where Indians and Vietnamese get the idea that supersonic missiles can not be stopped. Even high hyper sonic missiles like ballistic missiles are stopped with ABMs. What makes them think a far slower missile cannot be stopped?

Their higher amount of fantasy about indian weapons, everybody knows that brahmos is Derivative of Russian Missile P-800 Oniks with range of 290 km. But Indians will often Quote Super sonic , stealth features for Brahmos,
how i can be stealth??

 

[robinhood]

Big boat, little punch in South China Sea
By Phil Radford

SYDNEY - The Chinese aircraft carrier that began sea trials last week is by far the largest warship of any country in Asia and in certain realms could give China game-changing capabilities. However, the carrier cannot help China assert sovereignty over the South China Sea - its biggest maritime headache - and the ship could prove to be more of a diplomatic liability than a military asset.

At 300 meters long and displacing over 60,000 tons, the carrier is by far the largest warship of any navy in Asia. No other country in the region can operate fighter aircraft from a warship except Thailand, whose Chakri Narubet is less than a fifth the size. Once fully operational, the Chinese carrier should be able to sustain up to 40 Sukhoi 33-derived J-15 naval air-superiority fighters and up to 20 rotary aircraft, including Ka-28 anti-submarine helicopters.

On the surface, this capability would seem to decisively shift the


balance of power in the South China Sea, where China has territorial disputes with Vietnam, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei. Currently, China claims its territorial waters skirt the Philippines' coast as far south as Brunei, on Borneo island, before looping north and hugging the Vietnamese coast back to southern China. This 80-year-old claim neatly encompasses the Spratly and Paracel island reefs, assumed to be rich in hydrocarbon resources by surrounding countries that have erected research installations on them.

With an operational carrier based at China's expanded naval facility at Sanya on Hainan Island, China could conceivably maintain local air superiority over any point in the disputed South China Sea - a precondition for decisive military or diplomatic efforts to enforce its maritime claim and force the withdrawal of rival commercial operations and installations from the islands.

This capability would also help China reduce other countries' enthusiasm for the frequent maritime spats that occur in these contested waters and the nationalist outpourings that follow. In the latest incident in mid-June, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman accused Vietnamese exploration vessels of conducting unlawful oil and gas surveys off the Spratly archipelago, harassing Chinese fishing vessels and "gravely violating China's sovereignty and maritime rights".

Despite Chinese defense officials claims that the new carrier is intended for scientific research and training, the ship clearly fulfills a strategic function. The official Xinhua news agency published a commentary shortly before the ship departed saying, "Building a strong navy that is commensurate with China's rising status is a necessary step, and an inevitable choice for the country to safeguard its increasingly globalized national interests."

However, even if it becomes operational, the carrier and its air groups will be hugely vulnerable and China is unlikely to risk using it in any confrontation with rivals in the South China Sea.

Without catapults or arrester wires, the carrier will not be able to operate any airborne early-warning aircraft needed to provide comprehensive radar coverage for fleets. This means the carrier will have limited area awareness, unable to see or respond to threats beyond the horizon of ship-based radar. Logistical constraints will also limit the time the carrier can spend at sea: the People's Liberation Army-Navy (PLA-N) possesses only five seaworthy replenishment ships, none of them over 22,000 tons.

The biggest liability, however, will be inadequate protection. China has two Type 52C destroyers with active phased array radar that enables them to track multiple incoming missiles and aircraft - with four more under construction. But integrating that radar with China's domestically developed HHQ-9 anti-air missiles so they can shoot down supersonic sea-skimming missiles will prove exceptionally challenging. Nor can the carrier rely on sub-surface protection. Without very-low frequency radio communication systems, China's long range patrol submarines would struggle to operate tactically in defense of a carrier group.

Defensive postures
But even without these deficiencies, China's southern neighbors will likely ensure that the South China Sea becomes too dangerous for China to risk sending its prized carrier into contested waters.

In the first week of June, an article in Vietnam's state newspaper, Nhan Dan, carried pictures of the world's fastest anti-ship missile, the Indo-Russian BrahMos, in a clear statement of procurement intentions and its navy's readiness to respond to incidents of Chinese aggression within waters it claims as its exclusive economic zone. With a speed of Mach 2.8, the missile is four times as fast as a US-made Tomahawk missile and would present a lethal threat to any vessel within its 300-kilometer range. (Even with exceptional anti-missile capabilities, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) navies would keep well out of range of this threat.)

In the first week of June, an article in Vietnam's state newspaper, Nhan Dan, carried pictures of the world's fastest anti-ship missile, the Indo-Russian BrahMos

So, what can we say: Big boat, big mouth, but little punch

 

[below_freezing]

In the first week of June, an article in Vietnam's state newspaper, Nhan Dan, carried pictures of the world's fastest anti-ship missile, the Indo-Russian BrahMos

So, what can we say: Big boat, big mouth, but little punch

The Koreans and Indians said that too. The punch was big enough to knock out a few teeth.

 

[Akasa]

Inadequate protection? They already have tested the HHQ-9 along with the 3D search radar aboard the Type 052C years ago. The HHQ-9 with a slant range of 200 km and a maximum service ceiling of 30 km (better than the European Aster) would be probably the most capable naval missile aside from the SM-3 and the S-300.

The FL-3000N is used to intercept missiles, and it has been installed on the Varyag. The HQ-9 intercepts aircraft. The author obviously didn't that into account.

Then again, for the final layer of defense, there's the 10 barreled Type 1030 CIWS that can fire over 10000 rounds per minute, much superior to the Phalanx and Goalkeeper CIWS weapons.




The BrahMos missile's speed does not increase its capability, and instead, makes it much easier to track and shoot down. The BrahMos will have a very high RCS (large size), very high IR signature (supersonic speeds and engine), lacks terrain hugging (which makes it even bigger on radar), and lacks the anti countermeasure maneuvers. Its only source of radar guidance also makes it prone to jamming. That's why the US and China use subsonic missiles that use pop up approach and various methods of guidance.

The BrahMos wouldn't make it within 200 km of the carrier before it is intercepted by the HQ-9.

 

[muse]

The obvious attempt of such articles as the lead article is probe, to prod - I hope Chinese do not react to such attempts and focus on learning and training and then building carriers that at a minimum are 100Ktons displacement.

Little punch, little ship? Sure, yes sir - after all, China have no hostile intent with this carrier, they seek to learn and develop tactics and doctrine, to train crews to man future ships.