Chinese ASAT vs US ASAT

[gambit]

Only Day B4 Yesterday.. One of The Chinese Members Accused Indians of "Copying" Stuff .. n You May Imagine...
This was what i immediately uttered.. Its the Joke of Millennium...

I Guess Such Threads will find their True Value in "Funny & Jokes Section"..

The Chinese members here collectively made themselves one big joke when it comes to technical issues they have no experience in.

Did You take it for Granted that China would "EXIST" till the Last GPS Sat Goes Down ?
lol

Im Sure your Govt. Doesn't Think That way.

His government wised up. The PLA know that the US is steadily moving away from the GPS dependency of the 20th century. Of course, they will interpret this to mean that I said we are somehow discarding GPS. Such is their simplistic intelligence. Anything beyond 2 factors of influence confounds them, let alone X degrees of freedom.

 

[That Guy]

Let me put it to you this way, and from the space program at that...

Say you have a pen that contain the average of 30 ml but can write only when it is right side up. Then I came along and modify your pen to reduce the ink to 20 ml but also contain pressurized nitrogen so that it can write upside down but also can be used in weightlessness. Whose pen is going to be considered a superior engineered and innovative product? Sure as the Chinese members are wrong about many things technical -- not yours.

Yes, my pen contains less ink and therefore will not last as long thru usage, but I have radically altered its structure to the point where its utility is far greater, opened up to a wider audience, and can be used under far different environment.

Regarding destroying satellites at a higher orbit altitude, reaching that higher altitude is already done, simply because we placed plenty of satellites at that altitude. Here is the reasoning that the Chinese members here lacks: If we can place a satellite at that altitude, we can place another satellite at the same altitude and make it collide with the other one. So just because China may have made an effort to create a satellite for that particular purpose, that does not mean the US cannot do the same. It also does not mean the rocket with the greater amount of fuel to reach that higher orbit is somehow technologically innovative. We went to the Moon. The Chinese have not. So where is it that the US is technologically inferior to China in rocketry? It makes no sense.

You seriously don't understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[That Guy]

in a way yes, but it's depending on the "Purpose" of said item and for the person who is using said item.

If you just want to write as much as you can coming from a life of a pen, then of course the one that last longer (110 Words) and cheaper is better "for you"

However, for the pen that wrote 110 words, that said no standard of the ink, they can took a bit longer to dry or the pen could have been harder to write on certain surface.

If you require a quicker dry time, and to write across different surface, and if(We do not mention the standard of that pen) the pen that only last 100 words dry faster and can write smoother , then even it's more expensive and last not as long as the cheaper one, the pen that wrote 100 words is still better.

How is it "Superior" depends on how you want to use it. It's never one dimension...

Good point, but different dimensions were never mentioned by Gambit in his example, so I still stand by this example.

 

[jhungary]

Doh...!!! Here we go again. As usual when a Chinese cannot debate on topic and must resort to attacking my origin.

I laugh out VERY HARD when I hear him saying this

Just look at our DF-21D which now makes the aircraft carrier obsolete. Even though we are building our own carriers as we speak, that's because only we have the ASBM capability.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/267667-chinese-asat-vs-us-asat-3.html#ixzz2afuGPZpk

He say DF-21 makes Carriers obsolete and yet they are building their own carrier force BECAUSE they have DF-21. So they want to sink their own carrier with DF-21 I wonder??

 

[jhungary]

Only Day B4 Yesterday.. One of The Chinese Members Accused Indians of "Copying" Stuff .. n You May Imagine...
This was what i immediately uttered.. Its the Joke of Millennium...

I Guess Such Threads will find their True Value in "Funny & Jokes Section"..

Did You take it for Granted that China would "EXIST" till the Last GPS Sat Goes Down ?
lol

Im Sure your Govt. Doesn't Think That way.

He must be thinking while China destroying our satellite we just sit on our arse and do nothing.

lol. you have to admire the way they think

31 satellites (plus 3-4 decommissioned satellites) is all it takes to take down GPS.

Click this link if you don't believe me.

GPS.gov: Space Segment

lol those satellite is NOT MILITARY satellite. It was used in GPS (Military uses GPS too). GPS satellite have military usage, but the US military are NOT SOLELY Depend on GPS satellite. Kill all GPS sat, it may take out our way to travel from A to B, that's it. Still, there are something called "MAP" and "COMPASS"

Weapon satellite direct munitions to target, not GPS satellite, your very knowledge of thinking GPS satellite guide our smart munitions is very much to my point when CHINESE MEMBER KNOW NOTHING yet chest thumping like god in this forum

You confused between

GPS (satellite) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Military satellite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Milstar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Geostationary orbit satellite
Spy satellite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do know what's GPS right? Or China do not have such thing in their car??

You also need to know China do not have a GPS NAV satellite currently (China is STILL USING NAVSTAR 7 for GPS) but you do have smart munitions don't you? You have the Laser Guided Guild bomb you told me before? Since China don't have a system like NAVSTAR, are you saying China is using our 31 NAVSTAR satellite for your smart munitions??

literally, by saying our 31 NAVSTAR GPS satellite guiding our munitions, then what exactly guided your precision like DF-21?? As China currently do not have their own GPS system. Do you realise how insane you sound??

You ignorance amaze me, your post make people laugh, please DO CONTINUE

Good point, but different dimensions were never mentioned by Gambit in his example, so I still stand by this example.

He was saying there are more than 1 dimension on deciding what is "Superior" he already made the point in his "car" example, not just gallon to gallon.

2WD vs 4WD
Drum break vs ABS Break
I forgot the rest and too lazy to go back and check

 

[That Guy]

He must be thinking while China destroying our satellite we just sit on our arse and do nothing.

lol. you have to admire the way they think



lol those satellite is NOT MILITARY satellite. It was used in GPS (Military uses GPS too). GPS satellite have military usage, but the US military are NOT SOLELY Depend on GPS satellite. Kill all GPS sat, it may take out our way to travel from A to B, that's it. Still, there are something called "MAP" and "COMPASS"

Weapon satellite direct munitions to target, not GPS satellite, your very knowledge of thinking GPS satellite guide our smart munitions is very much to my point when CHINESE MEMBER KNOW NOTHING yet chest thumping like god in this forum

You confused between

GPS (satellite) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Military satellite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Milstar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Geostationary orbit satellite
Spy satellite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do know what's GPS right? Or China do not have such thing in their car??

You also need to know China do not have a GPS NAV satellite currently (China is STILL USING NAVSTAR 7 for GPS) but you do have smart munitions don't you? You have the Laser Guided Guild bomb you told me before? Since China don't have a system like NAVSTAR, are you saying China is using our 31 NAVSTAR satellite for your smart munitions??

literally, by saying our 31 NAVSTAR GPS satellite guiding our munitions, then what exactly guided your precision like DF-21?? As China currently do not have their own GPS system. Do you realise how insane you sound??

You ignorance amaze me, your post make people laugh, please DO CONTINUE



He was saying there are more than 1 dimension on deciding what is "Superior" he already made the point in his "car" example, not just gallon to gallon.

2WD vs 4WD
Drum break vs ABS Break
I forgot the rest and too lazy to go back and check

Actually, he didn't. Here is what he said;

Their 'reasoning' works this way: If an American car have a 10 gal fuel tank and travels 200 miles, then all China have to do is build a car with 11 gal fuel tank to go a little bit further and voila, the Chinese car is technologically superior.

He may have implied it, but the example he gave doesn't include more than one dimension, so again, I stand by my example.

 

[jhungary]

Actually, he didn't. Here is what he said;



He may have implied it, but the example he gave doesn't include more than one dimension, so again, I stand by my example.

you obviously missed his post 40. He did not call you out for some reason but he did say this

No, it would not. The Chinese car have no foundational changes to the original design, which for debate's sake have four wheels, an engine, and a cabin. A foundational change would be something like rear wheel drive versus front wheel drive, or four wheel steering versus two wheel steering, or standard brakes versus anti-lock brakes, carburetor versus fuel injection, leaf spring versus single point shock, and so on...

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/267667-chinese-asat-vs-us-asat-3.html#ixzz2agABUR5S

 

[That Guy]

you obviously missed his post 40. He did not call you out for some reason but he did say this

No, I understand that, but his original comment didn't include this, thus my point still stand. If he was being this specific, then he should have added it to his original comment and not tacked it on in another comment.

 

[Snowden]

Doh...!!! Here we go again. As usual when a Chinese cannot debate on topic and must resort to attacking my origin.

Can't argue my points so divert the topic

 

[gambit]

Can't argue my points so divert the topic

You had no points. You have no experience in this subject, not even third degree related. All you have are baseless declarations. And since you were the one who mentioned my origin, explain how is it related to rocketry?

 

[Snowden]

You had no points. You have no experience in this subject, not even third degree related. All you have are baseless declarations. And since you were the one who mentioned my origin, explain how is it related to rocketry?

You know we are ahead in ASAT so you bring up nonsense about other things.

 

[gambit]

You know we are ahead in ASAT...

In which ways? China have one low Earth orbit satellite destroyed. So what if China have a rocket that can reach geostationary orbit? How is that revolutionary or even evolutionary? Give the readers a reasonably technical explanation. Does China have an air launched ASAT weapon? No. But we do. We made it to the initial testing or 'proof of concept' stage. An ASAT that is launched from the ground versus one launched from an aircraft. Now THAT is revolutionary. Going from one orbit altitude to the next higher -- IS NOT.

...so you bring up nonsense about other things.

Me? Really? Then why did you bring this up...

Who is 'we'? You are a Vietnamese. You will remain that way for the rest of your life.

Explain to the readers on how is my origin TECHNICALLY related to rocketry. How is that TECHNICALLY relevant to the discussion? Does a person's racial makeup inhibit or enhance his/her technical abilities in rocketry?

On the other hand, you are an idiot and you will remain that way for the rest of your life if you cannot give such explanations. And THAT people will believe.

 

[j20blackdragon]

lol those satellite is NOT MILITARY satellite.

Both the civilian GPS service (SPS) and the military GPS service (PPS) use the same 31 GPS satellites. However, SPS broadcasts on only one frequency, while PPS uses two. This means military users can perform ionospheric correction, a technique that reduces radio degradation caused by the Earth's atmosphere. With less degradation, PPS provides better accuracy than the basic SPS.

GPS.gov: GPS Accuracy

Kill all GPS sat, it may take out our way to travel from A to B, that's it. Still, there are something called "MAP" and "COMPASS"

So your Plan B is using map and compass? You have no idea how happy I am to hear that.

Weapon satellite direct munitions to target, not GPS satellite

No such thing as a "weapon satellite" or whatever the heck you're talking about. It's all GPS/INS guidance.

Perhaps you should start by figuring out how something like JDAM works before you embarrass yourself any further.

Joint Direct Attack Munition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You also need to know China do not have a GPS NAV satellite currently

Wrong again.

Beidou Navigation Satellite System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jhungary]

Both the civilian GPS service (SPS) and the military GPS service (PPS) use the same 31 GPS satellites. However, SPS broadcasts on only one frequency, while PPS uses two. This means military users can perform ionospheric correction, a technique that reduces radio degradation caused by the Earth's atmosphere. With less degradation, PPS provides better accuracy than the basic SPS.

GPS.gov: GPS Accuracy

GPS is not "terminal" guidance, GPS in itself will not PROVIDE weapon system solution calculation to the JDAM. When used with GPS system, it merely gave the Position of said munitions and the co-ordination of the target.

Literally, nobody ever use GPS designation and almost all uses of JDAM are using Laser Designation.

Laser designator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So for country like Switzerland and Sweden and all 180 country in the world who does not have GPS SAT in space, they cannot use Precision Guided Munitions. Now you are making sense

So your Plan B is using map and compass? You have no idea how happy I am to hear that.

so are you saying the officer in PLA does not read maps and navigate?

I am so glad hearing that

No such thing as a "weapon satellite" or whatever the heck you're talking about. It's all GPS/INS guidance.

Perhaps you should start by figuring out how something like JDAM works before you embarrass yourself any further.

Joint Direct Attack Munition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do know what is Military Use Satellite right? So you are saying MILSTAR does not exist??

Milstar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lol, JDAM are used with Laser Designator, so what's your point??

Have you called a JDAM in service lately? I have, in 2003 and 2006

This is how JDAM works

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app5/jdam.html

After the USAF had successfully demonstrated a GPS-aided inertial (a.k.a. GPS/INS) guidance package in 1993

GPS-aided, NOT GPS GUIDED. Those two are a very different concept, if you do not understand the different, I suggest that you go get a dictionary.

JDAM is a GPS Aided, LASER Guided bomb. If you have a munitions that's GPS guided, that mean you do not need a LOS designation, you can literally drop JDAM from anywhere in the world and expect the bomb to guide to its target solely by GPS. How do you suppose to hit moving target with that?? Use a wifi to constantly update the Position Co-ordinate to your JDAM after it was dropped??

EDIT:: The only other uses for GPS in military is a GPD guided Supply drop called JPADS(Joint Precision Airdrop System) Hint, if you are holding a GPS receiver, whatever the stuff drop from above will drop on you, unless you want to get JDAM'ed in battle, you never actually use GPS Guided munitions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPADS

Now that's GPS Guided.

Wrong again.

Beidou Navigation Satellite System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is what the Wikipage quote

and began offering services to customers in the Asia-Pacific region in December 2012.[2] It is planned to begin serving global customers upon its completion in 2020.

So, if you are saying GPS SAT PPS Band guide smart Munitions, then you are saying China only have smart munitions as of December 2012?? Because up until then, the Chinese DO NOT HAVE A GPS SATNAV System.

go back and think what you are saying, before you post.

 

[j20blackdragon]

You do know what is Military Use Satellite right? So you are saying MILSTAR does not exist??

Milstar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Milstar is a constellation of communications satellites. What does this have to do with weapons guidance, JDAM, or anything else we're currently discussing? You can have zero communications satellites in space and JDAM will still work fine as long as GPS is functioning.

lol, JDAM are used with Laser Designator, so what's your point??

You're confusing JDAM with Laser JDAM.

Boeing makes a clear distinction between the two. Here is Boeing's Laser JDAM page:

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/missiles/jdam/docs/laser_jdam_overview.pdf

As you can see, a Laser JDAM is simply a normal JDAM with a laser seeker installed at the tip. It's hardly groundbreaking since the Paveway series of laser-guided bombs have been around since the 1960s. The GPS/INS JDAM wasn't delivered until 1997. The first combat use of the JDAM was during Operation Allied Force in 1999. The whole point of JDAM was to improve upon traditional laser-guided bombs, which can be hindered by bad weather conditions like dust, sand, smoke, fog, or cloud cover. GPS/INS guidance also eliminates the need for an aircraft to loiter over a given area to designate the target with a laser, which can be dangerous.

And the JDAMs used during Operation Allied Force didn't have a laser seeker. The basic JDAM is simply an unguided free-fall bomb with a GPS/INS tailkit and body strakes.

JDAM

Laser JDAM (note the laser seeker)

Have you called a JDAM in service lately? I have, in 2003 and 2006

I'm sure you called in plenty of JDAMs while playing Call of Duty.

GPS-aided, NOT GPS GUIDED. Those two are a very different concept, if you do not understand the different, I suggest that you go get a dictionary.

I said GPS/INS guidance.

JDAM is a GPS Aided, LASER Guided bomb.

You're describing Laser JDAM. See above.