Chinese Aero Engine information thread

[Figaro]

Via Vincent over on CDF

According to 宋心之 (at 29:00), WS-15 has maximum thrust of 18 tonnes and thrust-to-weight ratio of 10

 

[Deino]

Via Vincent over on CDF

According to 宋心之 (at 29:00), WS-15 has maximum thrust of 18 tonnes and thrust-to-weight ratio of 10

But how credible could a Youtube-video be with such fan art?

 

[Figaro]

But how credible could a Youtube-video be with such fan art?

The fan art is just the thumbnail ... the actual video is a half hour long interview with PLAAF expert 宋心之

 

[Figaro]

Pupu says he personally believes the thrust of the WS-10C has reached that of the 117S/AL-41F1S, which is around 14.5 tonnes or over 142 kN.

 

[sinait]

But how credible could a Youtube-video be with such fan art?

Seems like a pragmatic guy and clarifies he had no inside information before giving his views.
He says the WS-15 is designed for 18 tons and he is optimistic that given more time and patience the "Hangfa group 航发集团" will succeed with WS-15.
.

 

[S10]

WS-19 is confirmed to have 10 tons of thrust and has a thrust to weight ratio of 10:1. It will also be put in production in record time.

https://m.toutiaoimg.cn/group/68614...stamp=1597556549&group_id=6861429326106067469

 

[Figaro]

Cross post from SDF.

表格中只要看最下面一行就行了，H代表高度0，M代表速度0，Ga表示进气流量，状态代表100%的转速，T1代表加力温度。上面那篇论文的时间是2011年，作者是燃气涡轮院的，当时WS15正处于验证机研制的阶段，因此相应的数据也就是在处于研制阶段的WS15验证机在高空台上的试验点。验证机阶段国内是按照原型机96%的指标来研制，也就是说在验证机阶段只需要达到原型机96%的性能指标就行了，因此也就是说原型机的推力一般比验证机达到的推力大5%。按照表格上130Kg/S流量的数据，WS15原型机的流量约为137Kg/S流量的级别，按照四代机单位流量推力为125到130Kgf/KgS的水平，那么推算出WS15的推力范围为17吨到18吨附近，比产品30稍大，两者的推力差别大概为1到2吨，军推推力为11吨到12吨之间。

A very astute observer says the WS-15 has an wet thrust from 17 to 18 tonnes, and a dry thrust from 11 to 12 tonnes, based on a 2011 academic journal published by the 624 Institute allegedly showing the test results of the WS-15 undergoing high altitude core testing.

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2424995-1-1.html

 

[serenity]

Thrust was no longer a problem since years ago. They were never happy with range from high fuel consumption. The hardest problem is create efficiency comparing with Al-31 or WS-10 fuel consumption rating so range can be improved otherwise they keep rejecting. For thrust WS-10 and FN series Al-31 is enough to have good enough performance for J-20, not worse than J-10's or J-16's. Higher power output is of course much better but more important to preserve the range since stealth fighter cannot carry extra fuel for real missions and cannot rely on air refuel because H-6 and future air refuel still big easy targets. This is all from public information in Chinese.

Again WS-10 give J-20 good performance. Much better than most fighter jets in the world already. Only things above 1.01 power to weight is definitely superior but J-20 also has advantage of deceptive low weight due to new construction methods, high lift coefficient, low air resistance. Even 0.99 power to weight is already better than most fighter jets and consider to add those other three advantages, low weight, high lift, low drag, makes performance closer to >1. Most fighter power to weight is <1.

Still so many years after J-20 reaching service people outside China still believe J-20 suffers from low power. It flies already much better than J-16 and J-10, maybe does not have super maneuver like Su-35 because no thrust vectoring yet but more important performance is superior to J-10 and superior to J-16. Neither those can supercruise and supersonic turning is weak for J-16 and other Russian Su-27 based fighters. J-10 has good supersonic turning but not as strong as J-20 or as fast.

 

[zhxy]

I think China needs a similar engine to the NK-12 and NK-32. Was it too difficult trying to develop a cold war engine?

 

[Figaro]

I think China needs a similar engine to the NK-12 and NK-32. Was it too difficult trying to develop a cold war engine?

Please tell me why the Chinese need to develop these Soviet Cold War era engines?

 

[zhxy]

Please tell me why the Chinese need to develop these Soviet Cold War era engines?

The question should change to:

"Why hasn't China been able to develop a similar engine?"
"Is it really China that doesn't need such an engine?"

https://www.sohu.com/a/394178686_120394345
https://www.sohu.com/a/395552979_536880

 

[Figaro]

The question should change to:

"Why hasn't China been able to develop a similar engine?"
"Is it really China that doesn't need such an engine?"

https://www.sohu.com/a/394178686_120394345
https://www.sohu.com/a/395552979_536880

Please point out where China cannot develop an engine equivalent to the NK-32? Specs wise, the WS-10 is far ahead of the NK-32. Just because it has 245 kN of thrust does not mean it is an advanced engine at all. If you really wanted to do 200 kN, you could just make a massive engine, which is exactly what the NK-32 is. A T4 temperature of around 1600K and TWR of 7 are not impressive figures at all these days (i.e. 1980s specs). There is no evidence China is developing a supersonic bomber similar to the Tu-160 so such a massive after burning engine is not required.

 

[zhxy]

Please point out where China cannot develop an engine equivalent to the NK-32? Specs wise, the WS-10 is far ahead of the NK-32. Just because it has 245 kN of thrust does not mean it is an advanced engine at all. If you really wanted to do 200 kN, you could just make a massive engine, which is exactly what the NK-32 is. A T4 temperature of around 1600K and TWR of 7 are not impressive figures at all these days (i.e. 1980s specs). There is no evidence China is developing a supersonic bomber similar to the Tu-160 so such a massive after burning engine is not required.

 

[Figaro]

View attachment 662848

Just because China has not developed a engine in the NK32 class does not mean it does not have the technical abilities to do so. I have already told you that the WS-10 has much better specs than that of the NK32. The Chinese would have no problem designing a TWR 7, T4 1600K, 7 stage HP compressor large thrust turbofan.

 

[m52k85]

When was the last order China put in for Russian engines of the Al-31 family, anyone know? Which types were ordered?