China's Third Plenum and India's 'Dictator Envy'

[Genesis]

India can't use the Chinese system, it's not really a system at all, it's a continuation of Chinese government from the past.

It's had lots of modifications, but it's Chinese. The soviet government wasn't like ours and neither was any other world government. Nobody but us can do it.

We aren't a dictatorship, we are not a empire, nor fascist, we are Chinese. You can't teach an elephant to fly, and you can't teach a bird to grow a trunk.

India should just do what works, India is growing a lot slower, but so is the rest of the world, so are we.

We should see what this Modi character can do first, maybe he's the man to do it.

 

[Rainmaker]

Dictator envy is a bit of a loaded term and is pretty much meant to excuse India’s atrocious domestic reality by casting those dissatisfied with India’s current predicament as craving despotism.

But the key fact most people miss in their strident and very shallow summation of China is that anyone can join the Chinese Communist Party. So rather than having everyone be able to vote, everyone can join the organism that forms and dictates policy. An open club is hardly a dictatorship and joining the CPC in the hopes of one day leading China to reform is about as possible and realistic as one’s vote in India being able to determine the fate of the entire nation.

India is not China. But “being India” has long been a code phrase for inefficiency and incompetence. While China pulled off a highly successful Olympics, India struggled to pull off a mediocre Commonwealth Games.

It is not undemocratic to desire efficiency out of one’s government. The ability for everyone to have their say before a decision is made may make for a feeling of inclusion, but it puts procedure and feelings before progress and results.

India does not suffer from dictator envy, it suffers from effective and functional government envy.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Bullsh*t.

The growth speeds are completely different.

We got here by growing at a sustained average growth rate of 10-12% for several decades in a row.

India is currently at a 3.2% growth rate, with a much smaller base economy. It's absurd to even draw any kind of equivalence.

There is nothing to indicate that India cannot sustain an average growth of 10-12% or even greater when it so desires. Any govt. in place with a will to ease growth pain will unleash India's growth potential. As a matter of fact India is drifting towards a mind set that seeks such a growth trajectory.

Growth rate has nothing to do with base economy .....i thought you knew that.

The only Bullsh*t here is your unwillingness to admit what is obvious for the rest of us.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Dictator envy is a bit of a loaded term and is pretty much meant to excuse India’s atrocious domestic reality by casting those dissatisfied with India’s current predicament as craving despotism.

But the key fact most people miss in their strident and very shallow summation of China is that anyone can join the Chinese Communist Party. So rather than having everyone be able to vote, everyone can join the organism that forms and dictates policy. An open club is hardly a dictatorship and joining the CPC in the hopes of one day leading China to reform is about as possible and realistic as one’s vote in India being able to determine the fate of the entire nation.

India is not China. But “being India” has long been a code phrase for inefficiency and incompetence. While China pulled off a highly successful Olympics, India struggled to pull off a mediocre Commonwealth Games.

It is not undemocratic to desire efficiency out of one’s government. The ability for everyone to have their say before a decision is made may make for a feeling of inclusion, but it puts procedure and feelings before progress and results.

India does not suffer from dictator envy, it suffers from effective and functional government envy.

If India suffers from 'envy' as you so blithely put it, it would be more envious of the US, UK, Germany, Japan etc. The reality is Indians feel nothing of that sort. They only feel admiration for all such success stories.

A single party democracy is also a democracy. Only it has more restrictions than a two party or a multi party democracy. I am not aware of the voting rights and choices of an average Chinese citizen to I am hardly in a position to comment on it.

In life, we always put procedure and feelings before progress and results. It is what makes us humans and not robots.

Good manners, civilized behavior, cultural advancement and social grace is all about putting procedures and feelings before efficiency and results.

 

[cirr]

The days of 8% plus growth for India are forever gone。

It will need extreme luck to average 6% annual real growth for the next 10 years。

The mentality of Indians dictates so。

Venturing into Indian waters: Gionee Elife E6

By Shivang Arora

From HR College, Mumbai

Posted Nov 23rd 2013 12:00AM

Technology today has been well accepted and Indians have become smarter, richer and wiser. Though not democratically strong at the moment, but the Indian economy holds great vistas and opportunities for techie-giants like Samsung, Apple, Sony, HTC. Our homegrown smartphone manufactuers（resellers OK？） like Karbonn, Micromax, Lava and Maxx are also competing against the global big-shots with a firm hold of nearly 60 % of the Indian market share.

Sighting this growing potential, the Indian markets have attracted a new Chinese manufacturer, Gionee Communication Equipment Co. Ltd. With a sudden entrance; Gionee has gained out attention with ample advertisements for marketing its flagship smartphone Elife E6 into the Indian markets. Along with this flagship phone, the company has also launched its tablet Gionee Gpad to compete with the likes of Apple Air, Lenovo's Yoga tablet and Google's Nexus 7 and has promised the launch of a higher upgraded smartphone Elife E7 soon.

According to the technology research firm Gartner, Gionee's market share has risen from 1.5% to 4.7% in their home-country, China and expanding this trend in India as well with at present holding of 1% of the Smartphone market.

About the Elife E6, the smartphone surprisingly impresses us in all aspects. From its 1.5GHz quad-core processor powered by Mediatek MT6589T chipset coupled with the 2GB RAM and 32GB of internal memory to its 5-inch IPS display powered by One Glass solution (OGS) with full HD IPS ( 1920 x 1080) resolution.

The design is trendy with sharp rectangular corners and also making it a comfortable hold inspite of its 5 inch display. The Elife E6 boasts a super camera of 13MP rear-facing camera with Auto Focus and LED Flash and its user-face too is much better than the likes of many other premium branded phones. Gionee Elife E6 features a 2000mAh battery fitted inside with an undisclosed battery backup time. While its specifications impress us totally, a couple of drawbacks the phone has is that it doesn't support a dual sim technology and the 32 GB internal memory cannot be extended using an external memory card. Having said so, the Elife E6 makes it an excellent buy at Rs 21500 and for those who would want to experiment with newer brands, the Elife E6 could be your first choice easily over Samsung's Galaxy S4 mini (Rs 21,700) and Micromax Canvas turbo (Rs 18500) in around the similar price bands.

The Gionee Gpad G series too offer a great value for money amidst the upcoming band of tablets being launched into the markets. While the Elife E6 surely impresses with its decent looks and massive specs, the company claims that the successor Elife E7 would feature a faster Qualcomm 8974AC quad-core chip clocked at 2.5 GHz, which happens to be much faster than the a tad bit more advanced than the 8974AB chip and would be priced around Rs 34000 thereby competing the likes of high end smartphones like the Apple 5 series, Samsung's Galaxy Note 3 and Sony Xperia's Z Ultra.

Filed under: Technology
Tags: Apple, China, Discovery, elife e6, elifee6, Gartner, gionee, Google, HTC, India, Indian, IPS panel, Lenovo, MacBook Air, mumbai-hr-college, Nexus 7, Samsung Galaxy, Samsung Galaxy Note series, Samsung Galaxy S4, Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini, Samsung Group, Santa Fe Indian Market, SciTech, Sony, Sony Xperia Z Ultra

 

[anjaneyashruti]

The days of 8% plus growth for India are forever gone。
It will need extreme luck to average 6% annual real growth for the next 10 years。
The mentality of Indians dictates so。

LOL. Only if you insist 50 cents troll bot.

 

[Rainmaker]

LOL. Only if you insist 50 cents troll bot.

India has reached its bottlenecks for further growth.

Some of them are:

1) poor infrastructure.
2) red tape and bureaucracy.
3) massive corruption.
4) overpopulation.
5) caste system.
6) highly inefficient political system.

Just a few problems among the dozens of others.

India has taken no steps to rectify these problems. Hope won't bring high growth.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

India has reached its bottlenecks for further growth.

Some of them are:

1) poor infrastructure.
2) red tape and bureaucracy.
3) massive corruption.
4) overpopulation.
5) caste system.
6) highly inefficient political system.

Just a few problems among the dozens of others.

India has taken no steps to rectify these problems. Hope won't bring high growth.

This is a Logical fallacy. What you have shows is excatly why India would grow.

1. Tremendous Potential to develop infrastructure !!! from Roads, to Rail, to Docks to Airports, to electricity, to education etc......the potential for grow in ALL these sectors is tremendous since we are nowhere close to what can and should be done.
2. Red Tape ? Easy enough to remove when need arise. Any new political establishment can do it.
3. Corruption does not stop growth. China is a clear example of that
4. Huge youth population that is the real growth engine, both as workers and as consumers.
5. caste system ? troll system
6. The Politician system is highly efficient. That is one of the advantages of democracy. Its one of the most efficient political system in the world. Has to be, since it serves the largest democracy in the world.

 

[Rainmaker]

This is a Logical fallacy. What you have shows is excatly why India would grow.

1. Tremendous Potential to develop infrastructure !!! from Roads, to Rail, to Docks to Airports, to electricity, to education etc......the potential for grow in ALL these sectors is tremendous since we are nowhere close to what can and should be done.
2. Red Tape ? Easy enough to remove when need arise. Any new political establishment can do it.
3. Corruption does not stop growth. China is a clear example of that
4. Huge youth population that is the real growth engine, both as workers and as consumers.
5. caste system ? troll system
6. The Politician system is highly efficient. That is one of the advantages of democracy. Its one of the most efficient political system in the world. Has to be, since it serves the largest democracy in the world.

Sorry but everyone has potential but India can never reach its potential because of the reasons I listed.

Indian leaders care more about winning elections than growing the country. But winning elections means doing things that won't grow the country.

Indian corruption is the bad sort of corruption where leaders don't care about the country but only about personal rewards. In China, we have the 'good' corruption where leaders actually do what's good for the country but take personal rewards after that.

India has too many people and not enough resources and infrastructure (schools, roads, housing, etc) to support the growing population. This overpopulation where young populations are bred but not educated cause massive social problems like the rape problems and social protests where youth don't have jobs.

India has nearly the same population size as China but with only 1/3 of the land area.

People expect India to grow in the future, but there is a high possibility that it will stagnate as it is now as the debt and deficits get out of control and confidence in the currency falters. These bottlenecks are already starting to slow down the Indian economy. It's structural problems that cannot be fixed easily even though it might appear to be easy to fix.

India is an economic and social disaster in the making. If the Brits ran India, I think the Brits would manage the problems a lot better than Indians would. That's why I say India would have progressed so much more under western rule than self-rule. Some countries are better off not having self-rule and Indians and Africans fit into this group.

I don't see any Indian leader that can solve these problems as it's part of Indian culture. They are basically impossible to solve.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Sorry but everyone has potential but India can never reach its potential because of the reasons I listed.

And I have just proved that the reasons you listed is exactly why India will reach its potential.

Indian leaders care more about winning elections than growing the country. But winning elections means doing things that won't grow the country.

Most leader in the world cares more about himself than other .....that is human nature. However in a democracy winning election does mean having to promise and deliver growth, either social, cultural, military, economic, social etc... No leader can win election without delivery something out of all this. You have been brainwashed to look at only economic growth .... so unless you remove your blinders, it is pointless to discuss further.

Indian corruption is the bad sort of corruption where leaders don't care about the country but only about personal rewards. In China, we have the 'good' corruption where leaders actually do what's good for the country but take personal rewards after that.

It is statistically unlikely that people who enter politics to make a difference will stop caring about the country. There are exceptions, but they soon get voted out. Unlike Chinese brainwashed bots, no one in India thinks there is 'good' corruption

India has too many people and not enough resources and infrastructure (schools, roads, housing, etc) to support the growing population. This overpopulation where young populations are bred but not educated cause massive social problems like the rape problems and social protests where youth don't have jobs.

Unlike china, social protest is not considered a "problem" in India ...it is looked as a healthy expression of citizens rights and voice. Education is a continuous exercise and it never ends. Necessity is the mother of invention and the youth are more adaptable to picking up new skills when the need arise.

India has nearly the same population size as China but with only 1/3 of the land area.

India however also has a HUGE coastline and a much freer access to the Indian Ocean and accesses to resources that come from the Sea. Fertility of Indian land is more than china and the total arable land is more than china. India is also very rich in Minerals which can be mined.

People expect India to grow in the future, but there is a high possibility that it will stagnate as it is now as the debt and deficits get out of control and confidence in the currency falters. These bottlenecks are already starting to slow down the Indian economy. It's structural problems that cannot be fixed easily even though it might appear to be easy to fix.

LOL. There is no 'structural' problem. What does that even mean ?

The only bottleneck in India is political will, and that changes every 5 years. So in essence, no bottleneck in India will last more than 3-4 years.

India is an economic and social disaster in the making. If the Brits ran India, I think the Brits would manage the problems a lot better than Indians would. That's why I say India would have progressed so much more under western rule than self-rule. Some countries are better off not having self-rule and Indians and Africans fit into this group.

That is a opinion of an ignorant fool. No need to dignify this with a response

I don't see any Indian leader that can solve these problems as it's part of Indian culture. They are basically impossible to solve.

Again this is a opinion of an ignorant fool. Its entertaining, but gets boring after a while

 

[Rainmaker]

And I have just proved that the reasons you listed is exactly why India will reach its potential.



Most leader in the world cares more about himself than other .....that is human nature. However in a democracy winning election does mean having to promise and deliver growth, either social, cultural, military, economic, social etc... No leader can win election without delivery something out of all this. You have been brainwashed to look at only economic growth .... so unless you remove your blinders, it is pointless to discuss further.



It is statistically unlikely that people who enter politics to make a difference will stop caring about the country. There are exceptions, but they soon get voted out. Unlike Chinese brainwashed bots, no one in India thinks there is 'good' corruption



Unlike china, social protest is not considered a "problem" in India ...it is looked as a healthy expression of citizens rights and voice. Education is a continuous exercise and it never ends. Necessity is the mother of invention and the youth are more adaptable to picking up new skills when the need arise.



India however also has a HUGE coastline and a much freer access to the Indian Ocean and accesses to resources that come from the Sea. Fertility of Indian land is more than china and the total arable land is more than china. India is also very rich in Minerals which can be mined.



LOL. There is no 'structural' problem. What does that even mean ?

The only bottleneck in India is political will, and that changes every 5 years. So in essence, no bottleneck in India will last more than 3-4 years.



That is a opinion of an ignorant fool. No need to dignify this with a response



Again this is a opinion of an ignorant fool. Its entertaining, but gets boring after a while

Your responses are too emotional. The problems I listed have been part of Hindu culture for centuries and it doesn't just go away. If India could have solved these problems, it would be way ahead of us. But as everyone can see, it is China who is extending the lead over India.

These bottlenecks will always prevent India from reaching its potential. It's already causing Indian growth to stagnate and it won't recover.

Building infrastructure takes decades if done correctly. That won't happen in India because of its political system. Even we have been on a massive infrastructure building stage over the last 15 years without any restrictions and despite all of that, our infrastructure is still woefully short of where it needs to be. India will never build at the same speed as us.

India has not enough space for all the new people to live. They just exist. India has to educate them, feed them, house them, employ them, etc.

India don't have the resources (money, natural resources) to support all these people.

You add in the caste system and the political corruption and you can see why India is where it is.

You are kidding yourself if you think India has the leadership skills necessary to solve these structural problems. Structural means these are problems that won't be solved short-term, it will take decades to even get close to solving them. But it's pretty clear India has a leadership deficit that will make sure India stagnates like it's doing now.

It's going to take a helluva a lot more than boasting to fix India's problems.

But you can live in dream world.

 

[JSCh]

Democracy is means to an end, not an end in itself.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

@Rainmaker it is clear that I am wrestling with a pig. Stop responding to my post troll and do not expect my replies to any of your post either. Goodbye fool.

 

[Fattyacids]

I was not talking specifically about India. imagine a country got independence today( say a country which has single religion, ethnicity etc like say bangladesh). Which type of governance will you suggest?

We have seen how democracy failed and single-party system succeeded. Conversely, we have also seen how democracy worked and one-party system collapsed. I don't think one system is better than the other, (democracy vis-a-vis one-party system, not dictatorship) but in a country that is more homogenous, like Bangladesh, one-party system is implementable.

 

[livingdead]

We have seen how democracy failed and single-party system succeeded. Conversely, we have also seen how democracy worked and one-party system collapsed. I don't think one system is better than the other, (democracy vis-a-vis one-party system, not dictatorship) but in a country that is more homogenous, like Bangladesh, one-party system is implementable.

no, I disagree with you here. We need to take stats and also see the likelihood for failure.

For example if out of 100 countries 50 democratic and 50 autocratic.

If 1 democratic system failed and 49 autocratic system failed, you seem to suggest somehow they are equally likely hence one is not better than other?

Ok, about one party system, that definitely an improvement upon dictatorship. So it all starts with one party. It started so in India (congress was only party worth anything).
Can you expand upon that system. Like how will the members of party selected. and how will representitives of the party who make decision be selected.