China's Third Plenum and India's 'Dictator Envy'

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

India's problems are definitely multi facet. First of all, India like to brag about how its a service economy even though its more of a call center economy.

A call center economy which generates roughly $990 billion, should certainly have the filithiest indophobic perverts burn of envy

Willing to bet $990 billion would be more than entire 50 cent army expenditure per annum

Or maybe its a remittance economy.

remittance economy? CCP certified economics?

India annually receives $71 billion in remittance, which less the 10% of India's GDP.

2ndly, it ignores manufacturing and also the environment as well. Its environment, especially the air, is almost as bad as China's even though it has minimal manufacturing.

More CCP logic, India ignores manufacturing yet 9th largest manufacturing nation?

The Hindu : Business : India among top 10 global manufacturers: UNIDO

As for its people, India need to get them enough food to eat first. Once that happens, than the people would care about the politics. No one would care about politics if they have to worry about where the next meal is coming from.

There are alot of things India needs to do for its people, including protection from Han chauvinists in the north.

Who view its democracy as a point of superiority over China.

Many Indians are not aware of the system in China. But those who do, will certainly agree that

democracy helped India escape great leaps, revolution and non-unified nation.

There is nothing to feel superior in that, merely learning from other's mistakes.

Its only the Chinese members who want to cover up misery the envy towards us Indians for not suffering the above, believe in bashing democracy.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

@Chinese-Dragon you are somehow pretending to believe that democracy is the Only factor that affects economic growth.

Availability of resources per person, climatic conditions, social stability, neighborhood and historic background all contribute significantly.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

@Chinese-Dragon you are somehow pretending to believe that democracy is the Only factor that affects economic growth.

Availability of resources per person, climatic conditions, social stability, neighborhood and historic background all contribute significantly.

Oh, I agree. But I also prefer to go by real life examples.

So far, China has by far the best economic performance in the entire developing world. This means either that China's system is fairly good, or ALL the other developing democracies have failed to properly implement a good system. Do you think that is likely?

Look around you in South Asia. All the countries there are developing democracies, including Nepal. Yet Nepal has some of the worst social indicators on the entire planet. What went wrong? What about the developing democracies in Africa and the Middle East? What went wrong?

It is easy to win this argument though.

All you have to do, is show that India can beat China in terms of economic performance and social indicators (life expectancy, maternal mortality ratio, etc).

There is no loss for you, since developing your country should be the highest priority anyway. This race of development is a race of life and death for the hundreds of millions of our citizens. There is no reason to purposely lose the race.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Oh, I agree. But I also prefer to go by real life examples.

So far, China has by far the best economic performance in the entire developing world. This means either that China's system is fairly good, or ALL the other developing democracies have failed to properly implement a good system. Do you think that is likely?

When you talk about 'systems', there are all kinds of systems.

Political systems
Education systems
Governance systems
Economic systems
Judicial systems
Social systems
Environmental systems
etc..

Democracy addresses only the political system. Democracy listens to the voice of the masses. As explained earlier the masses do not necessarily want the most efficient system, they want the most comfortable system, one that gives them time to adapt an provides least stress. A path of least resistance so to speak.

Look around you in South Asia. All the countries there are developing democracies, including Nepal. Yet Nepal has some of the worst social indicators on the entire planet. What went wrong? What about the developing democracies in Africa and the Middle East? What went wrong?

For one, Nepal was a Monarchy till recently.

Second it is a land locked state with no easy or cheap access to mass transport. (cheapest and most efficient is water ways)

Similarly there are many things that has went wrong in Africa and Middle east which cannot be covered in a single post.

It is easy to win this argument though.

All you have to do, is show that India can beat China in terms of economic performance and social indicators (life expectancy, maternal mortality ratio, etc).

We can and We will, especially if the political system in china does not change. But we will beat you when we are ready.

There is no loss for you, since developing your country should be the highest priority anyway. This race of development is a race of life and death for the hundreds of millions of our citizens. There is no reason to purposely lose the race.

Life and death is irrelevant. I could die tomorrow and be born again as a Chinese. You could die tomorrow and be born again as an Indian. This is not a race anybody can win. All we can do is run.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

We can and We will, especially if the political system in china does not change. But we will beat you when we are ready.

Life and death is irrelevant. I could die tomorrow and be born again as a Chinese. You could die tomorrow and be born again as an Indian. This is not a race anybody can win. All we can do is run.

Then we'll have to wait and see.

And good luck to both of us.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Then we'll have to wait and see.
And good luck to both of us.

Why do you want to wait and see ? I already mentioned its not a Race to wait and watch. At least not for India.

 

[faithfulguy]

A call center economy which generates roughly $990 billion, should certainly have the filithiest indophobic perverts burn of envy

Willing to bet $990 billion would be more than entire 50 cent army expenditure per annum



remittance economy? CCP certified economics?

India annually receives $71 billion in remittance, which less the 10% of India's GDP.



More CCP logic, India ignores manufacturing yet 9th largest manufacturing nation?

The Hindu : Business : India among top 10 global manufacturers: UNIDO



There are alot of things India needs to do for its people, including protection from Han chauvinists in the north.



Many Indians are not aware of the system in China. But those who do, will certainly agree that

democracy helped India escape great leaps, revolution and non-unified nation.

There is nothing to feel superior in that, merely learning from other's mistakes.

Its only the Chinese members who want to cover up misery the envy towards us Indians for not suffering the above, believe in bashing democracy.

Any evidence about the $990 billion economy generated by call centers alone? Show the links. Also, remittance should play a major part of Indian economy as this is one source of income. As India continuous high child birth produces overabundance of labor, many more Indians would go overseas to fill the child deficient west, thus increase remittance over the years. Watch for remittance to be the #1 source of revenue for India.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Why do you want to wait and see ? I already mentioned its not a Race to wait and watch. At least not for India.

Wait and see which system leads to better economic and social development.

Right now, India is a $1.5 trillion economy growing at 3.2℅.

Even if your economic growth soared to a sustained 10%, and China's growth fell to 0% (i.e. assuming zero growth for China), how many decades would it take for you to reach our current economic size of $8.3 trillion?

Take out a calculator and see. You will be unpleasantly surprised.

As for social indicators, China is light years ahead, almost on par with the developed world. India scores amongst the worst in South Asia, let alone the world, when it comes to social indicators like life expectancy, malnutrition or maternal mortality ratio.

 

[Fattyacids]

ok.. you meant to say these things are indepenent, because they are definitely not mutually exclusive. Democracy does not ensure that you will suffer economic hardship.
The historical argument of how western countries came to get democracy has been repeated many times here. I am not sure why. Why does a country freshly independent from colonialism need to go through those phases?
lot of europe got rich throw slavery, surely a newly independent country should not start at that level?

And who will be the dictator/ruler? how will you decide that?

In the context of Contrarian post, poor socio-economic condition and so called functioning democracy are mutually exclusive.

Yes, what works in Europe may not work in India. Every country has its unique cultural and social characteristics/issues/problems. India is a country of countries, single party system would not work, India will break up. Democracy actually suits India to a tee, but democracy alone is not going to solve any socio-economic problem.

 

[faithfulguy]

Why do you want to wait and see ? I already mentioned its not a Race to wait and watch. At least not for India.

You said that India will overtake China when "it is ready" so he is waiting for that. Just like we all waited for India to be a superpower by 2012.

China is the best performing economy because a Democratic US decided to encourage china to open up and help build its economy to counter Russia. Its historical background and Geographical location and size too helped its case. Democracy is not the only factor that pushes forward economic development. There are other factors too.

Historically it has been proven that democracy is the one that gives the greatest probability of success and also provides stability to continue that success.

About India, Democracy does not necessary mean the best and brightest ideas get implemented, it only ensures the most acceptable ideas get implemented. Just as in life, efficient is not the only thing that matter.

Democracy requires educated electorate making sensible decisions. India only has massive destitute making those decisions. Thus the results prove itself.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Wait and see which system leads to better economic and social development.
Right now, India is a $1.5 trillion economy growing at 3.2℅.
Even if your economic growth soared to a sustained 10%, and China's growth fell to 0%, how many decades would it take for you to reach our current economic size of $8.3 trillion?
Take out a calculator and see. You will be unpleasantly surprised.

What part of "This is not a Race" did you not understand ? Clearly you are unable to grasp this fundamental concept.

How long did China take to reach from 1.5 % to 8.3% ? India would take approximately just about the same time.

As for social indicators, China is light years ahead, almost on par with the developed world. India scores amongst the worst in South Asia, let alone the world, when it comes to social indicators like life expectancy or maternal mortality ratio.

LOL. So what is your problem ? You should be happy, yet here you are desperate to hear our approval. Ever wonder why ?

You said that India will overtake China when "it is ready" so he is waiting for that. Just like we all waited for India to be a superpower by 2012.

Good. Wait.

Democracy requires educated electorate making sensible decisions. India only has massive destitute making those decisions. Thus the results prove itself.

LOL. So you mean in earlier times when people were not educated, they were not sensible ?

You are a troll so I do not want to waste my time with a fool like you. Do not reply to my posts anymore and do not expect me to reply to you either.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Any evidence about the $990 billion economy generated by call centers alone? Show the links.

Its is your reference to service sector economy of India (55% of India's GDP) as Call centre economy.

India's problems are definitely multi facet. First of all, India like to brag about how its a service economy even though its more of a call center economy.

Also, remittance should play a major part of Indian economy as this is one source of income.

should? Dirty lies

First you say :

Or maybe its a remittance economy.

Now you twist your lies by saying should , even despite me clearly debunking remittance share being less than 10% of India's GDP, or maybe according to CCP facts India's GDP is mere $100 billion . Please say that and humiliate yourself

As India continuous high child birth produces overabundance of labor, many more Indians would go overseas to fill the child deficient west, thus increase remittance over the years.

More dirty lies.

India's fertility rate for 2011 is 2.59 and at a constant decreasing rate.

World Development Indicators-Google Public Data Explorer

Watch for remittance to be the #1 source of revenue for India.

The great prophecies of CCP, like the prophecies prior to Great Leaps?

 

[livingdead]

In the context of Contrarian post, poor socio-economic condition and so called functioning democracy are mutually exclusive.

Yes, what works in Europe may not work in India. Every country has its unique cultural and social characteristics/issues/problems. India is a country of countries, single party system would not work, India will break up. Democracy actually suits India to a tee, but democracy alone is not going to solve any socio-economic problem.

I was not talking specifically about India. imagine a country got independence today( say a country which has single religion, ethnicity etc like say bangladesh). Which type of governance will you suggest?

 

[livingdead]

So why is it that China has by far the best economic performance in the developing world?

Take a look at any "developing democracy" around the world. In Africa, in the Middle East, even in your own neighborhood (South Asia), including your own country.

What you are doing is risky, and it shows. The standard throughout modern history is authoritarianism during the developing stage, and democracy during the developed stage. That's how it has always been done.

You guys are trying to go for a democracy first, before you are industrialized.

Even more, India is trying to skip the industrialization stage, and go straight for services.

Neither of those has been successful before for any major country. You're the one taking the very risky path, and so far it doesn't seem to be working for you. In terms of development indicators (life expectancy, maternal mortality ratio, etc), you are the 2nd worst in South Asia, behind countries like Bangladesh. Whereas China's indicators are almost the same as many already developed countries.

I think Democracy is a great system, but for developed countries. For developing countries it has an awful track record, and you can see that all around you.

there are two ways people are debating this this democracy vs authoritarian regime.
1. look at the whole world and see which model is successful and to what degree in various conditions.
2. Take random two sample, say India and china, (with completely different starting point when model was adopted, completely different situation and history), pretend other factors simply do not exist, and make it a high stake win all or lose all proposition.

If second one is the preferred one for you, be my guest, reply to this post will give you much more opportunity to compare the two countries yet again.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

How long did China take to reach from 1.5 % to 8.3% ? India would take approximately just about the same time.

Bullsh*t.

The growth speeds are completely different.

We got here by growing at a sustained average growth rate of 10-12% for several decades in a row.

India is currently at a 3.2% growth rate, with a much smaller base economy. It's absurd to even draw any kind of equivalence.