China’s Submarine Fleet, Evolution & news

[bshifter]

Are we sure this is the 095/096 as opposed to the 093B?

If not constructing the new types now then when? You should be excited the new models rolling out of the factory.

 

[Deino]

See Horobeyo's post #1006, one post above Sutton's article -- sorry, just revamped my earlier post to add more tweets he gave out the measurements why this cannot be other than a NEW TYPE of NUCLEAR SUBMARINE!!

If not constructing the new types now then when? You should be excited the new models rolling out of the factory.

I agree with you and I'm also sure @Figaro is as happy as anyone here IF it would be indeed a new class. However several reliable poster including Rick Joe aka Bltizo and Interstellar at the SDF are leaning towards another 093: And as such I think to ask to be sure is nothing wrong.

 

[samsara]

I agree with you and I'm also sure @Figaro is as happy as anyone here IF it would be indeed a new class. However several reliable poster including Rick Joe aka Bltizo and Interstellar at the SDF are leaning towards another 093: And as such I think to ask to be sure is nothing wrong.

@Figaro posted his comment before I revamped my earlier post by adding the info posted by Horobeyo (thus I said 'sorry' dude ), so just a natural question.

I read Blitzo's exposition why it's more likely an expanded 09III-series than a new class in his opinion, while repeatedly emphasized that the TIMING is not yet ripe for the introduction of new class. But he gave no explanation on WHY the TIMING, in his own opinion, does not fit the NEW class. If he relies on whether there's any earlier "hint" / "discussion" / "leak" in Chinese forums or media as he stressed often, then this time he might be just wrong, that sub moreover the nuke-sub is simply out of touch. I don't want to argue too much that opinion. Moreover submarine things, even more on the strategic nuclear-powered subs as strategic assets, the pertinent info is really scarce(!)... so at the end it may look like no definite answer whether or not the TIMING is ripe for New Class, whether or not the New class is introduced until China decides to tell the world, or external resources spot their existence, etc (just keep in mind this stuff submerges under water, not on the surface). But let me ask all, how many years have elapsed since the notion of 09V and 09VI first circulated?

At this point of time, it's up to one's faith what to believe... the expanded 09III series (09IIIB ?) / other existing class, OR brand-new class. I just opt the latter.

 

[Deino]

@Figaro posted his comment before I revamped my earlier post by adding the info posted by Horobeyo (thus I said 'sorry' dude ), so just a natural question.

I read Blitzo's exposition why it's more likely an expanded 09III-series than a new class in his opinion, while repeatedly emphasized that the TIMING is not yet ripe for the introduction of new class. But he gave no explanation on WHY the TIMING, in his own opinion, does not fit the NEW class. If he relies on whether there's any earlier "hint" / "discussion" / "leak" in Chinese forums or media as he stressed often, then this time he might be just wrong, that sub moreover the nuke-sub is simply out of touch. I don't want to argue too much that opinion. Moreover submarine things, even more on the strategic nuclear-powered subs as strategic assets, the pertinent info is really scarce(!)... so at the end it may look like no definite answer whether or not the TIMING is ripe for New Class, whether or not the New class is introduced until China decides to tell the world, or external resources spot their existence, etc (just keep in mind this stuff submerges under water, not on the surface). But let me ask all, how many years have elapsed since the notion of 09V and 09VI first circulated?

At this point of time, it's up to one's faith what to believe... the expanded 09III series (09IIIB ?) / other existing class, OR brand-new class. I just opt the latter.

Agreed!

 

[Han Patriot]

Are we sure this is the 095/096 as opposed to the 093B?

I don't think China would just leak out 095/096 so easily.

 

[bshifter]

I agree with you and I'm also sure @Figaro is as happy as anyone here IF it would be indeed a new class. However several reliable poster including Rick Joe aka Bltizo and Interstellar at the SDF are leaning towards another 093: And as such I think to ask to be sure is nothing wrong.

They are not authoritative that goes for you as well. Can you, Blitzio or other PLA watcher ever be 100% accurate in the assessments on the PLA development? No one offered bulletproof valid reasons why it could not be 095/096 am i wrong? I understand Figaro wants to be certain but based on the measurements and how many years have elapsed since the talks have been going on for these new classes AND the construction of this huge and new facility can only mean that 095/096 sooner or later will emerge from this factory. If time is not ripe then when is the time ripe? How backward can China be that we need to wait even much longer before China can build Virginia class types?

Read page 24

https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF

DOD even predicted new classes would start construction in early 2020s three years ago.

 

[Deino]

They are not authoritative that goes for you as well. Can you, Blitzio or other PLA watcher ever be 100% accurate in the assessments on the PLA development? No one offered bulletproof valid reasons why it could not be 095/096 am i wrong? I understand Figaro wants to be certain but based on the measurements and how many years have elapsed since the talks have been going on for these new classes AND the construction of this huge and new facility can only mean that 095/096 sooner or later will emerge from this factory. If time is not ripe then when is the time ripe? How backward can China be that we need to wait even much longer before China can build Virginia class types?

Read page 24

https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF

DOD even predicted new classes would start construction in early 2020s three years ago.

What a funny post, no-one here is an authoritative to say 100% for sure and exactly due to this important factor on PLA watching critical questions, having doubts against any hypes claims is more than justified and in fact makes the difference between a more reliable analyst and fan-boys.

As such, You want to tell me it MUST be the 095 - or more likely is one - only since none of these critics is authoritative and since we cannot prove this not as a 095 it MUST be one?? What a logic?

Since I cannot prove, there are NO little green men on Mars - since I'm not authoritative - there must be some? And why is being sceptical always rated as if I would say China is "backward"??


By the way not being authoritative, "that goes for you as well"!

 

[bshifter]

What a funny post, no-one here is an authoritative to say 100% for sure and exactly due to this important factor on PLA watching critical questions, having doubts against any hypes claims is more than justified and in fact makes the difference between a more reliable analyst and fan-boys.

As such, You want to tell me it MUST be the 095 - or more likely is one - only since none of these critics is authoritative and since we cannot prove this not as a 095 it MUST be one?? What a logic?

Since I cannot prove, there are NO little green men on Mars - since I'm not authoritative - there must be some? And why is being sceptical always rated as if I would say China is "backward"??


By the way not being authoritative, "that goes for you as well"!

Then everytime there's some new photos showing some new construction everybody should be entitled to question whether it is what some other people claim it to be including you. Now that is funny considering you have been very actively telling others to stop making certain comments calling them BS.

 

[Deino]

Then everytime there's some new photos showing some new construction everybody should be entitled to question whether it is what some other people claim it to be including you. Now that is funny considering you have been very actively telling others to stop making certain comments calling them BS.

Why do you think any new photo should be questioned?
I think there is a difference between something very clear and most reasonable. As an example if you see a J-20 with a zig-zag nozzle as we've seen it already it is most likely a WS-10C, if it is very much different, is eventually a WS-15 but not for sure, but it is surely not a Klingon warp-drive!

In the same way if we see a blurry image of a new submarine, it is safe to be unsure if it is a 095 or 093, when no clear evidence for one or the other option is visible.

Again, I am the last one who would not like to see a 095 or even 096, but from all i see it is IMO too early to open the bottles to celebrate ... and this is not as if I see china still backward but simply caution.

 

[bshifter]

Why do you think any new photo should be questioned?
I think there is a difference between something very clear and most reasonable. As an example if you see a J-20 with a zig-zag nozzle as we've seen it already it is most likely a WS-10C, if it is very much different, is eventually a WS-15 but not for sure, but it is surely not a Klingon warp-drive!

In the same way if we see a blurry image of a new submarine, it is safe to be unsure if it is a 095 or 093, when no clear evidence for one or the other option is visible.

Again, I am the last one who would not like to see a 095 or even 096, but from all i see it is IMO too early to open the bottles to celebrate ... and this is not as if I see china still backward but simply caution.

Didn't you say having doubts is more than justified? Of all the people this coming from you is a joke. What you mean is you are entitled to call other people's comments or questioning BS whenever you judge it to be. Figaro is questioning it and i threw a valid question back at him if not now then when? I don't see what is wrong with that.
I presented some valid reasons why there's a very high probability that new classes are constructed as we speak. I could care less what you, blitzo or some other guy at SDF claims are. You even have eye sight problems https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type...carrier-news-discussions.416166/post-12909771

 

[Deino]

Didn't you say having doubts is more than justified? Of all the people this coming from you is a joke. What you mean is you are entitled to call other people's comments or questioning BS whenever you judge it to be. Figaro is questioning it and i threw a valid question back at him if not now then when? I don't see what is wrong with that.
I presented some valid reasons why there's a very high probability that new classes are constructed as we speak. I could care less what you, blitzo or some other guy at SDF claims are. You even have eye sight problems https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/type...carrier-news-discussions.416166/post-12909771

Not sure what's your intention now! First of all Rick Joe is one of the most respected PLAN analysts out there, if You say "all the people this coming from you is a joke", then it tells me more about your own credibility than about his.

Also, I don't know what my eye-issues - which were meant as a joke - has anything to do with other member's stupid claims I indeed call BS. And again, you may rate this arrogance, but I claim to be correct to define a "estimation of the J-20's maximum thrust as higher than the SR-71 based on a speculative fuel consumption" as BS.

As such, no-one cares what you think and all i did is to call for being careful not right away jumping the bandwaggon only based on a blurry image that could also well be a 093.
Or in return- besides the factor of times, what makes you so sure it must be a 095?

Otherwise please accept that I have a different opinion, if you don't agree then it's fine, but that's no reason for insults.

 

[bshifter]

Not sure what's your intention now! First of all Rick Joe is one of the most respected PLAN analysts out there, if You say "all the people this coming from you is a joke", then it tells me more about your own credibility than about his.

Also, I don't know what my eye-issues - which were meant as a joke - has anything to do with other member's stupid claims I indeed call BS. And again, you may rate this arrogance, but I claim to be correct to define a "estimation of the J-20's maximum thrust as higher than the SR-71 based on a speculative fuel consumption" as BS.

As such, no-one cares what you think and all i did is to call for being careful not right away jumping the bandwaggon only based on a blurry image that could also well be a 093.
Or in return- besides the factor of times, what makes you so sure it must be a 095?

Otherwise please accept that I have a different opinion, if you don't agree then it's fine, but that's no reason for insults.

Insults? How did i insult you or you felt insulted because i caught you to be unable to recognize a picture which was so obvious it was an aircraft carrier. Either eye sight problem or lack of intelligence or even imagination. If you couldn't even recognize that how on Earth you think you can judge my questioning Figaro? I suggest you move on instead of coming up with more excuses Western CHINA EXPERT as if everybody cares what Deino thinks. This has nothing to do with jumping on the bandwagon pal, get off from your high horse.

 

[LKJ86]

Via @人民海军 from Weixin

 

[LKJ86]

Via @北海舰队 from Weixin

 

[samsara]

From 中国正能量 @Chinese__Energy on 2021.03.24:

今天，他离开我们了……
他是彭士禄，中国核潜艇第一任总工程师。
国之栋梁，吾辈楷模！致敬彭老，彭老一路走好

Today (2021-03-22), he left us…… [at 96 years old]
He is Peng Shilu, the first chief engineer of Chinese nuclear submarine.
The pillar of the country, the Chinese role model of our generation!
Salute to Peng Lao, Peng Lao all the way well [have a quick and smooth journey]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1373981883722166277