China’s Submarine Fleet, Evolution & news

[Akasa]

The nuclear sub area is the most sensitive part of the entire PLA ... much more so than any other area like missiles or aircraft engines. The only report we've gotten on PLAN sub noise levels is from that 2009 ONI report, which relied on even earlier data (basically early 2000s). So basically, we're completely in the dark when it comes to relative noise levels on Chinese nuclear subs ...

I would say that we're in the dark when it comes to the subs of other countries as well. As things should be, if those in charge of OPSEC continue to be competent in their profession.

 

[Figaro]

I would say that we're in the dark when it comes to the subs of other countries as well. As things should be, if those in charge of OPSEC continue to be competent in their profession.

It's just that the PLAN in particular is super secretive when it comes to its nuclear sub ... like no other nation. The data we have are largely from the beginning of the century. But why would we compare the PLAN of 2003 to that of today? The 09V is largely guess-work, although that Ma Weiming revelation was very huge.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

According to Henri K, the JL-3 has conducted the land test back in June.

https://twitter.com/x/status/905434062487244804

 

[Akasa]

It's just that the PLAN in particular is super secretive when it comes to its nuclear sub ... like no other nation. The data we have are largely from the beginning of the century. But why would we compare the PLAN of 2003 to that of today? The 09V is largely guess-work, although that Ma Weiming revelation was very huge.

I'm sure US & European intelligence have a far more accurate assessment of the 09III/09IV's capabilities than what was reflected in that ONI report.

I managed to locate the rumor, and it appears that the text did mention a new class of submarine (as opposed to a new unit of a submarine), so things are definitely getting interesting.

 

[Figaro]

According to Henri K, the JL-3 has conducted the land test back in June.

https://twitter.com/x/status/905434062487244804

He claimed that alledged DF-26B test was a JL-3 test? I'm quite confused by his assessment ...

I'm sure US & European intelligence have a far more accurate assessment of the 09III/09IV's capabilities than what was reflected in that ONI report.

I managed to locate the rumor, and it appears that the text did mention a new class of submarine (as opposed to a new unit of a submarine), so things are definitely getting interesting.

Well, then they aren't willing to disclose it in the form of an ONI report or in the DoD's annual review.

 

[Akasa]

According to Henri K, the JL-3 has conducted the land test back in June.

https://twitter.com/x/status/905434062487244804

The solid motors did, not necessarily the missile itself. The actual SLBM would probably be tested in a year or two. Following that, a few years of trials would be necessary before the JL-3 could achieve IOC. Take the JL-2's horrendously-long trial time as a reference.

 

[Figaro]

The solid motors did, not necessarily the missile itself. The actual SLBM would probably be tested in a year or two. Following that, a few years of trials would be necessary before the JL-3 could achieve IOC. Take the JL-2's horrendously-long trial time as a reference.

The JL-2 was the Chinese's first attempt at developing a truly intercontinental SLBM and at the end, it worked. The transition to the JL-3 should be much more straight forward. The JL-2 also has MIRV's I believe ... another benefit. You can just go look at the torturous development cycle of the Russian Bulava for reference.

 

[Figaro]

From what I known, the JL-3 is scheduled to be tested on the modified Type 032 in the next year.

The parameters I've got for the JL-3 are 12-13 thousand kilometer range, payload of 10 MIRV's, placed in 24 missile tubes on the 096. If correct, the 096/JL-3 combo will be bigger boost to China's nuclear deterrence than any DF-41, DF-31AG, or DF-5C.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

He claimed that alledged DF-26B test was a JL-3 test? I'm quite confused by his assessment ...


Well, then they aren't willing to disclose it in the form of an ONI report or in the DoD's annual review.

From what I known, the JL-3 is scheduled to be tested on the modified Type 032 in the next year.

The JL-2 was the Chinese's first attempt at developing a truly intercontinental SLBM and at the end, it worked. The transition to the JL-3 should be much more straight forward. The JL-2 also has MIRV's I believe ... another benefit. You can just go look at the torturous development cycle of the Russian Bulava for reference.

The JL-2A with 12000KM will only carry few MIRV warheads, and with the US keeps increasing their anti-missile defense systems, China needs to develop a new type of SLBM with a range at least up to 12000KM, while the MIRV number can maintain up to 10 thermonuclear warheads.

The parameters I've got for the JL-3 are 12-13 thousand kilometer range, payload of 10 MIRV's, placed in 24 missile tubes on the 096. If correct, the 096/JL-3 combo will be bigger boost to China's nuclear deterrence than any DF-41, DF-31AG, or DF-5C.

The JL-3 can reach 12000KM with 10 thermonuclear warheads.

In comparison, the JL-2A can reach 12000KM with only 3 thermonuclear warheads.

 

[Akasa]

The JL-2 was the Chinese's first attempt at developing a truly intercontinental SLBM and at the end, it worked. The transition to the JL-3 should be much more straight forward. The JL-2 also has MIRV's I believe ... another benefit. You can just go look at the torturous development cycle of the Russian Bulava for reference.

The JL-2 failed to achieve the ultimate goal of providing the PLAN with the ability to strike CONUS from well-protected Chinese waters, with only a 7400-8000 km range. JL-3 would essentially be a new missile, and would be to the JL-2 what the DF-31AG was to the DF-31A.

 

[samsara]

I dont know why all the fuzz about Soryu class>?????
tell me what is it so "distinctive" and "advanced"``? just because it is made by Japan??
the only "advantage" it has over Chinese new subs is that can dive few meters deeper than ours.
But in terms of quietness, weapon variety, communication system, propulsion system, power management system and costs! it is much inferior than China's`````actually French and few other European countries make much bettter subs than Japan does```

U-212? ok, tell me can it swim with 10+knots underwater for 8 hours without popping up for bit a fresh air? or can it keep jogging for 5+knots for 2 weeks without a break on the surface?

EXACTLY! the word soryu or japan will have higher possibility to trigger the seek out response and hopefully further info just tried to hit some nerve of some kind of inferiority complex or other complex to trigger some sought after response...

one should really ask oneself whether or not the japan question is still really relevant in today's setup

has anyone noticed this tweet??? how does one feel then? for me it looks like a desperate attempt to seek out some info

https://twitter.com/x/status/907503069327278080

 

[星海军事]

China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation ( CSIC ) has delivered a "New Type" of nuclear submarine" to PLAN, possibly be "095"?

No. There are a few pages between the 2nd and the 3rd generation nuclear submarines of PLAN.

 

[Figaro]

No. There are a few pages between the 2nd and the 3rd generation nuclear submarines of PLAN.

I'm not sure about that. The PLAN never made any kind of this type of announcement for the 093B or 094A even after they were operating. I think this indeed might be a completely new class of nuclear submarine, although I'm uncertain as to if its the 095. Time will tell.

 

[Zarvan]

I'm not sure about that. The PLAN never made any kind of this type of announcement for the 093B or 094A even after they were operating. I think this indeed might be a completely new class of nuclear submarine, although I'm uncertain as to if its the 095. Time will tell.

Is it Type 95 or Type 96 which will be next Generation Sub ?

 

[Figaro]

Is it Type 95 or Type 96 which will be next Generation Sub ?

95 is a nuclear attack sub. 96 is a nuclear missile sub. One is used for conventional warfare while the other is for nuclear deterrence.