China's official media shows shot down a U.S U - 2

[topjumper]

Just curious, heard some rumors that some Chinese residents in Shanghai reportedly seeing B-2 bombers flying overhead. Is that any elements of truth in it? Do we currently possess any ability to detect B-2 entering our airspace before it is too late?

 

[gambit]

If you are talking old time stories it's true. But now US spy planes can only fly beyong China's territorial waters. Any violation of China's sovereign space would mean a big diplomatic issue. I don't think US government may allow this type of embarassment to happen while pretending to be a world police. Or are you implying that US has an unknown spy plane that can not even be spotted by Chinese defense system? Please either provide us some evidence or cut your crap.

Both China and US and other countries are spying on each other. There's no way China would claim we don't have spies on US. Even US won't make such stupid claims that no one believes. It shares no similarity to the cases of sending surveillance or spy planes into the sovereign space of others.

Before the official debut of the F-117, many technical experts, including those from the Russian aviation community, openly dismiss any rumors of such a low radar reflectivity from any man-made object. I cannot 'cut' any crap because I made no official claim regarding any US super-duper secret aircraft that Chinese radars, which are Russian derivatives anyway, cannot detect. What I am saying is that when there are wary relationships, let alone open hostility, between powers, there will be covert attempts by any means at anyone's disposal to gather secrets.

Clarke's three laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

# Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Am not saying the US DoD dabble in 'magic', however, we do have a solid record second to none and sufficiently ahead of everyone else that the word 'magic' is often used by popular media to describe the results of US technology. The 'magical' place called Area 51 is a tourist trap. You do not know what we have flying out here in Nevada airspace. Me? I have only ideas of what they have. And they are very very 'magical'.

 

[Sanchez]

Just curious, heard some rumors that some Chinese residents in Shanghai reportedly seeing B-2 bombers flying overhead. Is that any elements of truth in it? Do we currently possess any ability to detect B-2 entering our airspace before it is too late?

In the mid 1990s USAF planes did invade China's space several times. They played with their electronics to fool PLA's radar system and got away. Dunno if they also sent B2. There has been submarine harassment in China's territorial waters too. These events were actually wake up calls for China's leaders to modernize PLA. Jiang revived programs of ICBMs, nuke submarines, J-10, HQ-9 and others. The most important decision he made was to make peace with Russians by giving up territory claims on Haisanwei stolen by Russia in 1900s. It's how we got ToT of Su-27, kilos and other Russian techs.

China was bullied by the US as an enemy force. Now I think they are getting one for real. Today it's a joke to claim their B2 or F22 having toured Chinese space without being detected.

 

[no_name]

China will not sit well to foreign military planes intruding their airspace and I do not think they will remain quiet. At least they won't if an incident happens. Remember the Hainan spy plane incident in 2001? It is 2010 now.

regards

 

[Sanchez]

Before the official debut of the F-117, many technical experts, including those from the Russian aviation community, openly dismiss any rumors of such a low radar reflectivity from any man-made object. I cannot 'cut' any crap because I made no official claim regarding any US super-duper secret aircraft that Chinese radars, which are Russian derivatives anyway, cannot detect. What I am saying is that when there are wary relationships, let alone open hostility, between powers, there will be covert attempts by any means at anyone's disposal to gather secrets.

It may take another 50 years for China to catch up US in military techs. But given the "secrets" I know about today any of your known stealthy planes will not come and go without being spotted. USAF did try and got away many times before as I mentioned in my post above. But I would need more "evidence" or better reasoning to believe it could happen today.

 

[gambit]

It may take another 50 years for China to catch up US in military techs.

I have said it before here and I will repeat: There is no such thing as 'military technology', only the adoption and adaptation of technology for military uses.

The only way for China to have as active the adoption and adaptation of technology for military uses as the US is for China to have fundamental changes at the societal level. The US DoD thru DARPA encourages civilians to investigate and innovate, allow the new technologies to mature and it does not need to be widespread among the civilian sector to mature, re: the Internet for example, then the US military will adopt and adapt. This 'catch up' is under the assumption that the US will remain static. Good luck with your assumption.

But given the "secrets" I know about today any of your known stealthy planes will not come and go without being spotted. USAF did try and got away many times before as I mentioned in my post above. But I would need more "evidence" or better reasoning to believe it could happen today.

Then you do not know much.

 

[saheeen]

China have shown his power to US, what they should have done it even before... US is like a sinking ship which will crash / devide & sink sooner.

 

[gambit]

I have a hard time understanding too, but i think it says something along the lines of, B-2 bomber has flown over China, which angered the Chinese?

I still don't understand the pictures, it looks like an aircraft is flying along side the B-2; however, this is strange because a B-2 should fly above any aircraft. On pictures 3 and 4 it also looks like an aircraft is firing an A2A missle, but how?

I would not trust those so called 'photographs'. They are Photochopped. For the size of the (faked) missiles and their explosions, the aircraft itself would have been obliterated. Further, the U-2 has no pods on the wings. The TR-1 does. So we have U-2s and TR-1s shot down over China with sepia toned and blurry photographs as 'evidences'? Give me a break. This is as bad as the Iranians with their 'missiles'.

Here is a visual treat for the Chinese members here..

They were ROCAF's U-2s from the 1960s. Notice how they are remarkably intact.

The above were UAVs that were probably shipped to China after being shot down over North Viet Nam. Most likely they were the Ryan models.

Ryan Model 147 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However...There are suspicions that no U-2 were shot down over China at all but UAVs that were derived from the real U-2...Such as the Boeing YQM...

COMPASS COPE

SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 90 ft.
Length: 40 ft. (including nose probe)
Height: 12 ft. 8 in.
Weight: 14,400 lbs. max.
Armament: None
Engine: One General Electric J97-GE-100 of 5,270 lbs. thrust
Crew: None

Lockheed U-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

# Crew: One
# Length: 63 ft (19.2 m)
# Wingspan: 103 ft (31.4 m)
# Height: 16 ft (4.88 m)
# Wing area: 1,000 ft² (92.9 m&#178

Notice the wingspan similarity?

Nazi Germany's V-1s did not need constant radio control to fly over to England. So for any long range high altitude U-2 derived UAVs to fly over Chinese airspace, all the US had to do is launch them in the general direction, have a ship off the Chinese mainland's coast guide the aircraft over the targeted area and let autopilot do the rest. During the Vietnam War, several Ryan Firebees returned with AA holes in them.

 

[ameer219]

We should discard the word 'shocked'. It is nothing more than a piece of rhetorical flourish, hardly a statement of fact. The leadership, civilian and military, understand well that these types of clandestine activities are no less risky than open warfare. May be -- just may be -- that the US was surprised that there were weapons in the PLA's arsenal that could bring down a U-2, but hardly 'shocked' as we know what the Soviets could wield and give the PLA.

I guess tha tis your point of view, I would probably still go for "shocked" than "surprised", as they may have underestimated China's military technologies, if it did shot down U2 spy plane,anyway I would stick to Shocked and you would stick to surprised, case close, cos if we go on further on this topic, it will further deviate from the topic

 

[faithfulguy]

I know it isn't. Thanks for pointing out the complete obvious.

I was just using the story about iraq to prove my point that i was trying to make.

The U.S can fly over china and nothing will happen, because china knows if they do something, it will have greater consequences. Just like when iraq could of shot down american bombings planes.

No, China will try to shoot it down. If they haven't its because China is technologically backward, not because of political reason.

 

[faithfulguy]

If you are talking old time stories it's true. But now US spy planes can only fly beyong China's territorial waters. Any violation of China's sovereign space would mean a big diplomatic issue. I don't think US government may allow this type of embarassment to happen while pretending to be a world police. Or are you implying that US has an unknown spy plane that can not even be spotted by Chinese defense system? Please either provide us some evidence or cut your crap.

Both China and US and other countries are spying on each other. There's no way China would claim we don't have spies on US. Even US won't make such stupid claims that no one believes. It shares no similarity to the cases of sending surveillance or spy planes into the sovereign space of others.

Well, US gets plenty of intelligence through satellites. However, if there is actual planes fly over China that China has claimed that its able to detect, no one would be able to tell you even if they wish to.

You should know better than try to get any such information.

 

[below_freezing]

I know it isn't. Thanks for pointing out the complete obvious.

I was just using the story about iraq to prove my point that i was trying to make.

The U.S can fly over china and nothing will happen, because china knows if they do something, it will have greater consequences. Just like when iraq could of shot down american bombings planes.

it actually can't. the whole spy plane crash in 2001 was precisely because the US cannot fly over chinese airspace. chinese fighters from hainan took off and intercepted it.

what are the greater consequences? US going to launch a full scale air war? rofl give me a break, it's not like china didn't down planes before when both nations didn't even recognize each other.

iraq couldn't have done jack crap to the US air force. it's whole air force is tiny, weak and cannot produce anything on its own. middle eastern countries as a whole, are weak in industrial capability and the will to fight.

 

[gambit]

it actually can't. the whole spy plane crash in 2001 was precisely because the US cannot fly over chinese airspace. chinese fighters from hainan took off and intercepted it.

That was an ELINT prop job, as if anyone is going to have a tough time finding it.

 

[xdrive]

iraq couldn't have done jack crap to the US air force. it's whole air force is tiny, weak and cannot produce anything on its own. middle eastern countries as a whole, are weak in industrial capability and the will to fight.

As i said, iraq could of easily shot down the planes with anti aircraft weapons, but they didn't because they knew of the consequences.

 

[below_freezing]

As i said, iraq could of easily shot down the planes with anti aircraft weapons, but they didn't because they knew of the consequences.

no, they actually couldn't. they could shoot down 1-2 if they get lucky. yugoslavia was stronger than iraq and it could only get 1-2.

if china can't shoot down a plane over chinese territory, it's like faithful said: not because we don't want to shoot it down or are scared, but because we don't have the technology yet, but when we get it, it'll be shot down, and there will be no response from whoever sent it, guarenteed. The crew, if alive, will be repatriated and the wreckage of the aircraft confiscated.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/Lockheed-F104.html

"Starfighter squadrons made two deployments to Vietnam, the first being from April 1965 to November 1965, flying 2,937 combat sorties. During that first deployment, two Starfighters were shot down by ground fire. One was shot down by a Chinese MiG-19 (Shenyang J-6) when the F-104 strayed over the border, and two F-104s were lost to a mid-air collision associated with that air-to-air battle."

During Vietnam, any crossing over of the Chinese border by US fighters was immediately responded to. If we have the technology, we will defend the borders, and the nation that sent it will not be sending them again nor make any protest.

funny how yugoslavia, even though it was disintegrated, only suffered 700 casualties against the heaviest bombardment since WW2, while iraq got hit lightly and suffered 10000's. it proves how weak and pathetic iraq was.