China's new 'carrier killer' for Pakistan's JF-17 Thunder fighter

[GURU DUTT]

US did nothing for our aid, and you don't have to worry about it it wont do anything to us or you, the last thing it wants is a war with another Nuclear country, be it India or Pakistan


they are confidential? its like asking to bring and show you our nukes as proof that we do have them ._.

well brother USA did send its 7th fleet to bully india in 1971 but in way came a soviet neuklear sub which surfaced in front of the 7th fleet before it could enter bay of bengal

as for usa worrying about neuklear state well brother they give a rats behind about that cause apart from russia & china no one will ever dare to send its ICBMs tipped with neukes to USA and i guess your intelegent enof to know why

as for your super duper baburs and devine carrier killers well USA along with israel made there anty dotes as soon as the oprationalised there tomahawks & ASMs and other classified stealthy arsenell cause they know there opponents will be bizzi in making the counterparts

and india is already building its shields with help of green pines , swordfish & other french and israeli + Indian and russian radars + making & buying akash PAD ,AAD, S -300 PMU, S-400 , spyder sam sytem an some other israeli ,french and russian systems in huge numbers to counter your cruise missle and billistick missile threat

so buddy it sure will put a few scars on owr face but we will be able to survive but sorry to say pakistan will sieze to survive if ever it tryies to do a neuklear tango with india

 

[Secur]

The adversary's not sleeping in the meantime . People need to remember that before presenting out the entire current Indian arsenal and then boasting about their future procurements . Sometimes , I hate the ISPR not for releasing enough information @mafiya

 

[graphican]

well first part show me the link

Land Version of Babur Cruise Missile

Naval Version of Babur Cruise Missile

URL: Pakistan Successfully Tests Hatf-VII Babur Cruise Missile ~ Pakistan Military Review

secondli i know babur is raod mobile and has shoot and scoot capality thats pricesly why we are investing so heavily on spy sat network that scans and detects all movements of your strategicl forces like missile launch sites and launchers

Satellites may be able to locate major deployments but not individual vehicles and small sized - constantly moving trucks, unless they were looking for specific one and were tracking it from storage to deployment. We have 1200 KM long border with India and most of it is subject to such deployments. Unless India had 10s of satellites looking for hints continuously, they won't be able to locate them. Secondly in the battle field, there are always camouflage and fake threat casters. What are your chances to actually identify real carrier and launching a neutralizing it before it relocates or it launches an attack? Probably some chance is there but I don't think India will be deepening on its survival on such a minute chance. And this is an expected future tactic which doesn't exist on the ground as yet.

as for countring baburs mid air i guess ill take chances with IAF preparedness in this area as for arial defnce of CBG and naval blockade brother things are way much more complicated than you think but its good to be optimistic ...good luck

I don't disagree with you and I acknowledge Indian navy is way stronger than Pakistan has or can counter using its naval fleet - but - what I am saying is rather simple and different from navy-vs-navy. Pakistan's navy wouldn't be able to move ahead to attack Indian asserts as long as AC or other naval fleets are blocking their way - but - Pakistan has good means to neutralize such naval blockade if India ever creates one; unless that blockage was created way down inside indian waters. If it was within our waters/within our reach, its survival chances are flimsy.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Land Version of Babur Cruise Missile

Naval Version of Babur Cruise Missile

URL: Pakistan Successfully Tests Hatf-VII Babur Cruise Missile ~ Pakistan Military Review




Satellites may be able to locate major deployments but not individual vehicles and small sized - constantly moving trucks, unless they were looking for specific one and were tracking it from storage to deployment. We have 1200 KM long border with India and most of it is subject to such deployments. Unless India had 10s of satellites looking for hints continuously, they won't be able to locate them. Secondly in the battle field, there are always camouflage and fake threat casters. What are your chances to actually identify real carrier and launching a neutralizing it before it relocates or it launches an attack? Probably some chance is there but I don't think India will be deepening on its survival on such a minute chance. And this is an expected future tactic which doesn't exist on the ground as yet.



I don't disagree with you and I acknowledge Indian navy is way stronger than Pakistan has or can counter using its naval fleet - but - what I am saying is rather simple and different from navy-vs-navy. Pakistan's navy wouldn't be able to move ahead to attack Indian asserts as long as AC or other naval fleets are blocking their way - but - Pakistan has good means to neutralize such naval blockade if India ever creates one; unless that blockage was created way down inside indian waters. If it was within our waters/within our reach, its survival chances are flimsy.

well brother thing is you have baburs in all version great but the main point is how will you use them agaisnt indian navy but maybe you know what i dont so i dont conteston it

as for sats well brother they are way more than what you think + its not just indians that are keeping an eye on you its USA , Isarel & russia aswell cause they are already warry about your adventourism and we share all these informations and vice versa but again its not just sats or radars but ground intel aswell which we have thanks to freinds + your own assets are targets of tallibunnies and so very often we see pakistani inteletualls saying its pakistan which is gurding its neukes than the other way around any way good for you again

now the last part well brother why will we send owr navy for your blockade when we can counter all threats posed by you by owr land based assets as karachi isnext door to mumbai do you realli think your navy will vnture far from your ports when already owr assets will be targeting them from owr border states with you say gujrat or maharashtra

any way nice thread i enjoyed it thanks buddy

 

[Bratva]

The adversary's not sleeping in the meantime . People need to remember that before presenting out the entire current Indian arsenal and then boasting about their future procurements . Sometimes , I hate the ISPR not for releasing enough information @mafiya

Na zakhmo par namak chirko... Agai hi ISPR par bohot tap hai.

Rightly said. Whatever Pakistan has or got, it has the best defensive arsenal. Though we suck at having offensive punch.

 

[graphican]

Can you provide any proof for the statements marked in red that you made?

Short answer is no I cannot empirically prove you but here is my rational and logic.

In war-scenarios, aircrafts fly close to tree-line to avoid detection and they stay undetected unless seen by an areal scanner like an AWACS or they had reached fairly close to radar installations as otherwise they remain submerged within ground noise. Here, we are talking about an object which has several times smaller radar signature than aircrafts reflect. When you say 3D, that means scanner/radar is supported by xy-ground-scanner and is linked with a high altitude AWACS. A ground hugging object who never crosses the line of horizon stays submerged within the ground-noise zone and thus stays undetected by xy-scanner but when Awacs is there, it can identify it when the missile was close enough to reflect radar signals back.

Now consider the 3m2 standard RCS produced by 10-15m wide aircrafts having engine, wings and wave reflecting surfaces VS radar signature of a wingless tiny object having 0.52m radius, which on top is is terrain hugging and continuously changes its path. If an AWACS can detect a 10-15m wide target from the distance of 400KM, how much detection range would you expect for an object which is 2-5% of size of an aircraft and who stays ducked under the line of horizon, with negligible heat signature and no deflecting fins?

 

[Bratva]

Can you provide any proof for the statements marked in red that you made?

Nasr test video showed the accuracy of the system which was 1-2 meters. Babur Accuracy is 3-4 Meter and it's last year test it flew at 50 meter height. Can your ground based 2D, 3d radars can pick CM at such height?

 

[graphican]

well brother thing is you have baburs in all version great but the main point is how will you use them agaisnt indian navy but maybe you know what i dont so i dont conteston it

I told you there is a naval and nuclear capable version. What we both don't know is that if it can target moving targets but I like to hope it would. We have serious threats and we have harpoons+chinese carrier killers + all the support which we need from them. Logically speaking why shouldn't it be ready to attack sea-based targets?

as for sats well brother they are way more than what you think + its not just indians that are keeping an eye on you its USA , Isarel & russia aswell cause they are already warry about your adventourism and we share all these informations and vice versa but again its not just sats or radars but ground intel aswell which we have thanks to freinds + your own assets are targets of tallibunnies and so very often we see pakistani inteletualls saying its pakistan which is gurding its neukes than the other way around any way good for you again

I can say the same about China and they having their eye on India. Here your stance is more of a political in nature and I leave you happy with that.

now the last part well brother why will we send owr navy for your blockade when we can counter all threats posed by you by owr land based assets as karachi isnext door to mumbai do you realli think your navy will vnture far from your ports when already owr assets will be targeting them from owr border states with you say gujrat or maharashtra. any way nice thread i enjoyed it thanks buddy

Now you have started saying what I was saying but keeping a wrong reason. India will depend on its airforce more than it does on Navy for Pakistan's scenario and it wouldn't dare bringing AC close to our waters being cautious. Pakistan has enough means to bring mighty AC down. Also for Pakistan, Aircraft Carrier doesn't increase our threat perception as India has enough land airbases near our border and if Pakistan can counter threat from those bases, adding AC to those wouldn't change anyting for us.

You have a good day.. i'm also leaving my desk for today.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I told you there is a naval and nuclear capable version. What we both don't know is that if it can target moving targets but I like to hope it would. We have serious threats and we have harpoons+chinese carrier killers + all the support which we need from them. Logically speaking why shouldn't it be ready to attack sea-based targets?



I can say the same about China and they having their eye on India. Here your stance is more of a political in nature and I leave you happy with that.



Now you have started saying what I was saying but keeping a wrong reason. India will depend on its airforce more than it does on Navy for Pakistan's scenario and it wouldn't dare bringing AC close to our waters being cautious. Pakistan has enough means to bring mighty AC down. Also for Pakistan, Aircraft Carrier doesn't increase our threat perception as India has enough land airbases near our border and if Pakistan can counter threat from those bases, adding AC to those wouldn't change anyting for us.

You have a good day.. i'm also leaving my desk for today.

well brother thing is you sureli have all those as you said but the question is element of surprize which is getting dileuted each passing day for you deu to new techs we have aquired

any way china is no where in the picture even if its keeping an eye on us they will not attack us cause they have to worry about USA joining the party openliwhile japan , s korea , vietnam and taiwan wil brovide the bcak up

now its good you got my final point thank you sir but the thing is its not just the indian airbases they have to worry on there eastern front butmany things they cant ignoare any way good night buddy

Na zakhmo par namak chirko... Agai hi ISPR par bohot tap hai.

Rightly said. Whatever Pakistan has or got, it has the best defensive arsenal. Though we suck at having offensive punch.

well the offence is the best line of defence and indiacan & wil own pakistan whenever they try to be over adventurous and remeber china will not come to save you all it will do is supply you free wepons and forget USA rather it will help india with all your secrets and you already know why ...cheerrs mate

 

[Donatello]

thats true brother but the thing is chinese have to over come the IAF & IN bases in andaman and nicobar islands which sits owt like a watch god at the gates of amllacca starits + chinese presence in sri lanka will be taken care of by IAF & IN air bases in Goa, karnataka , kerala , tamil nadu while for karachi and gadawar owr bases in baroda , jaiselmair and pune are well equipped to handle all chinese and pakistani air force in southren part of pakistan while the air bases in central and north india will hold PAF & can even give PLAAF a very bloody nose if ever they try to cross the himalayas

now tell me what will you do if chinese like in all previous indo - pak wars stay owt and just provide you with free supply of wepons

as for awacs no dought you have 4 chinese AWACS couple of swedish AWACS but your a intellegent person please can they hold agaisnt 3 Phalcons backed equal number of Indian ASEA based AWACS which again will be backed mutiple layered and muli band indian ground based and aerostat radars + on open sea's we have P8i's and K 31 AWACs and very soon E2D is in the offening

how will you counter it & not to forget owr MKIs are called mini awacs deu to there power full PESA radars while in couple of years they will have the ASEA upgrade and a new genration of Jammers + EW suite

If you are ignoring the ZDK03 and SAAB ERIEYE, along with P3C orions and F-16s, then you have the common Indian TV mentality.

Pakistan's posture is not to conquer anyone, but make sure that an attacking party (hint India) can be given a lethal punch in the face.

The Mirages based at Karachi are lethal too, with the Exocet. not to mention the Agostas and their AIP and capability to launch Exocet while submerged.

 

[illusion8]

Nasr test video showed the accuracy of the system which was 1-2 meters. Babur Accuracy is 3-4 Meter and it's last year test it flew at 50 meter height. Can your ground based 2D, 3d radars can pick CM at such height?

Post the article/ video regarding the accuracy of babur and nasr - purely for my information only.

Of course they can - Aerostat radars are lined up along India's western borders specifically to detect low flying aircraft and possible cruise missiles.

 

[Bratva]

Post the article/ video regarding the accuracy of babur and nasr - purely for my information only.

Of course they can - Aerostat radars are lined up along India's western borders specifically to detect low flying aircraft and possible cruise missiles.

Nasr Video is in Pakistan missile technology thread. Check last couple of pages and regarding Babur, It's somewhere in Babur Cruise Missile - Database thread, A grainy video, can't figure out, but the official news item that came with it in "Urdu" disclosed it's accuracy and height parameters plus that Babur serial production officially started in 2012

 

[trident2010]

Why would India have to use ACC for Pakistan? IN will fire around 50-75 naval Brahmos in conjunction with anti-submarine charges (with the help of P8-I and Tu-142) which is more than enough to sink all the PN fleet and then they can use guided-missile destroyers to achieve the mission objectives. Using ACC for Pakistan is more than overkill.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Why would India have to use ACC for Pakistan? IN will fire around 50-75 naval Brahmos in conjunction with anti-submarine charges (with the help of P8-I and Tu-142) which is more than enough to sink all the PN fleet and then they can use guided-missile destroyers to achieve the mission objectives. Using ACC for Pakistan is more than overkill.

So easy for arm chair generals to say, but very difficult to do it practically or not every plan goes as planned.

 

[trident2010]

So easy for arm chair generals to say, but very difficult to do it practically or not every plan goes as planned.

Yes, I know but if a light fighter like JF-17 can sink an ACC which is protected by CBG and Mig-29K, then it is more than possible that 50-75 naval Brahmos + anti-submarine charges will sink all the PN along with some fishing boats near by.