China's Military Buildup Could Push USA Out of Asia

[Tin Man]

We made an example of India before. If you want to group yourself with mafia criminals, prepared to be treated like one.

Never realized pla generals were active in "pdf". Easy with the war declaration thing son.

 

[anonymous123]

Multipolar world is in the best interest of everyone even for India unless you want to be at the mercy of the American later..............

 

[Tigershark]

Of course, it wasn't supposed to be this way. Chinese leaders have long emphasized that Beijing's "rise" would be "peaceful."

China's rise is indisputably peaceful. That does not mean, however, that China must leave itself defenceless. In this chaotic world, where America reigns as a hegemon and India seeks to take over Asia, only a strong Chinese military can ensure peace and security.

 

[Renegade]

Just like mafia criminals. Make an example out of the boss and the little brothers run like bugs.

The question is now, whether India wants to be the one that's the "example", or whether it thinks that by joining a mafia, it will be the lucky one not to be shot by the storeowner they're robbing.

Now, US is across the ocean. But India is right on our border.

Watched too many 'Godfather' movies have you lately!! You are welcome to try though.

 

[Renegade]

That's because in terms of military power, the balance in the region has yet to shift at all. U.S. still enjoy an overwhelming military advantage over China. The simple fact is, among the world's major powers, no non-U.S allied power has any 'credible allies'. Not China, not Russia and not India.

So when do you think that the balance of power will shift enough for countries like Japan to shift alliances? As for your second point i agree that no non-US allied power has any credible allies, but again no non-US power is placed in such a precarious position as China is at the moment.

Some people have this unfortunate tendency to undercount how many neighbors China has. China has 14 land neighbors and at least 6 more maritime neighbors. China's relationship with Japan, Vietnam and South Korea ain't in best shapes. And we do have disputes with Philippines flaring up every now and then. But how do you make 'most neighbors' out of those countries is a mystery to me. And please don't lump all ASEAN countries together, China enjoys excellent relations with all continental ASEAN countries except Vietnam.

China only enjoys good relations with Cambodia & Laos, all other ASEAN countries are apprehensive of China to some extent or the other.

List of neighboring countries that stand pissed with China:
1. Japan
2. South Korea
3. Vietnam
4. Taiwan
5. Philippines
6. India
7. Indonesia, Malaysia & Singapore to varying degrees (apprehensive of China's claim over the whole of South China sea)
8. Russia (in the past)
9. Bhutan (no recognized border, as Bhutan does not want diplomatic relations with Beijing)


That is some record you guys have. Name one another country that has had problems with so many neighbors.

 

[prototype]

The article stated an estimated defense budget of $ 300 billion by China,usually it is claimed their unofficial budget is somewhere near $150 billion.

well,I am not actually surprised,have a look at their induction spree and it is evident,aircraft carrier's,anti ship ballistic missiles,stealth fighter's,at some point of time they will surely kick out US from East asia,also disturbing the peace of Asia.

 

[below_freezing]

So when do you think that the balance of power will shift enough for countries like Japan to shift alliances? As for your second point i agree that no non-US allied power has any credible allies, but again no non-US power is placed in such a precarious position as China is at the moment.






China only enjoys good relations with Cambodia & Laos, all other ASEAN countries are apprehensive of China to some extent or the other.

List of neighboring countries that stand pissed with China:
1. Japan
2. South Korea
3. Vietnam
4. Taiwan
5. Philippines
6. India
7. Indonesia, Malaysia & Singapore to varying degrees (apprehensive of China's claim over the whole of South China sea)
8. Russia (in the past)
9. Bhutan (no recognized border, as Bhutan does not want diplomatic relations with Beijing)


That is some record you guys have. Name one another country that has had problems with so many neighbors.

Vietnam doesn't trust the US, but rather wants to play China and US against each other. It knows that we can make an example out of it easily.

Phillipines has no power projection, we don't lose anything except cheap maids if they go against us.

South Korea has to worry about North Korea first. They're begging us to rein in North Korea.

Malaysia and Indonesia are some of the few VISA FREE/VISA ON ARRIVAL destinations for Chinese citizens. They're not going anywhere.

Russia is our strategic partner and we hold more joint military exercises than Russia and India. Indians love Russians but Russians treat India like an ATM.

Taiwan is not going to do anything because 1.) Chinese don't fight Chinese and 2.) Their military is not in the position to realistically launch a 1st strike.

So India, Japan and US are going to be alone. Guess which one is going to be made an example of?

 

[prototype]

Vietnam doesn't trust the US, but rather wants to play China and US against each other. It knows that we can make an example out of it easily.

Phillipines has no power projection, we don't lose anything except cheap maids if they go against us.

South Korea has to worry about North Korea first. They're begging us to rein in North Korea.

Malaysia and Indonesia are some of the few VISA FREE/VISA ON ARRIVAL destinations for Chinese citizens. They're not going anywhere.

Russia is our strategic partner and we hold more joint military exercises than Russia and India. Indians love Russians but Russians treat India like an ATM.

Taiwan is not going to do anything because 1.) Chinese don't fight Chinese and 2.) Their military is not in the position to realistically launch a 1st strike.

So India, Japan and US are going to be alone. Guess which one is going to be made an example of?

Ur post do not at all make any sense,What he posted was about the nation's apprehensive of China,and what u posted is u care it about or not.

Well u care it or not is an another matter but does not change the factor about those nation's likeness towards China.

Russia,Vietnam or whatever else on a daily basis 100's of reports r emerging everyday about their internal assessment's about China.

Ignoring this does not means this does not exist.

I dont know what kind of exclusive coverage Globaltimes is doing in China which project Vietnam and S Korea as China's friend.

 

[ZhengHe]

Never realized pla generals were active in "pdf". Easy with the war declaration thing son.

He speaks as a Chinese. "We" as in China.

 

[ZhengHe]

Watched too many 'Godfather' movies have you lately!! You are welcome to try though.

"You are welcome to try though"

It has already been done.

You mean, "You are welcome to try again"

Then yes, China should always be ready to manhandle India if it gets too confident (Forward Policy).

 

[Renegade]

Vietnam doesn't trust the US, but rather wants to play China and US against each other. It knows that we can make an example out of it easily.

The last example was made in 1979 & we all know who got kicked in the crotch.

Phillipines has no power projection, we don't lose anything except cheap maids if they go against us.

Nice attitude. Shows that you have a lot of growing up to do. Nevertheless, the West says the same thing about your products & labor.

South Korea has to worry about North Korea first. They're begging us to rein in North Korea.

And you don't reign in the North because you chaps want to play politics. Well i am sure it hardly troubles your conscience that you help to prop up a tyrannical regime, which still sends its people to labor camps & provokes the South unnecessarily.

Yes the South Koreans have to worry about the North, but your support to the North is not helping you make friends with the South.

Malaysia and Indonesia are some of the few VISA FREE/VISA ON ARRIVAL destinations for Chinese citizens. They're not going anywhere.

They both were actively calling the US to come to the South China sea after your over lordship claims. By that measure they are going some where.

Russia is our strategic partner and we hold more joint military exercises than Russia and India. Indians love Russians but Russians treat India like an ATM.

Russians are your strategic partners & choose India for partnership for their 5th generation FGFA programme. Some strategic partnership that is.

Taiwan is not going to do anything because 1.) Chinese don't fight Chinese and 2.) Their military is not in the position to realistically launch a 1st strike.

What happened during the Civil War!!? was the KMT Japanese!!?

So India, Japan and US are going to be alone. Guess which one is going to be made an example of?

OMG!!! Just don't spank us too hard this time around.


Bottom line, whatever reason reason you want to assign to these countries for being apprehensive of China is up too you. The important thing is they don't trust you or your intentions & that will count for something when the time comes & you might just loose more cheap nurses in the bargain.

 

[Nomenclature]

Ur post do not at all make any sense,What he posted was about the nation's apprehensive of China,and what u posted is u care it about or not.

Well u care it or not is an another matter but does not change the factor about those nation's likeness towards China.

Russia,Vietnam or whatever else on a daily basis 100's of reports r emerging everyday about their internal assessment's about China.

Ignoring this does not means this does not exist.

I dont know what kind of exclusive coverage Globaltimes is doing in China which project Vietnam and S Korea as China's friend.

No country is monolithic. There are pro-Chinese and anti-Chinese factions in Vietnamese politics. Same for rest of Southeast Asia, Russia and South Korea. It would be a mistake to cheery pick the anti-Chinese remarks from think tanks or certain government agencies and interpret them as 'what they really think' while ignoring everything else.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Leading in the Indian Ocean

Australia and the U.S. need to organize allies to maintain freedom of navigation as regional rivalries heat up.

By THOMAS G. MAHNKEN AND ANDREW SHEARER

Suddenly the Indian Ocean is hot for the first time since a growing Soviet naval presence spooked Washington, Canberra and other states in the region back in the 1970s. Now the Australian government predicts that over the next two decades the Indian Ocean will become as central to the country's maritime strategy and defense plans as the Pacific, according to its 2009 Defense White Paper.

The United States, traditionally an Atlantic and Pacific power, seems to be rediscovering the Indian Ocean too. Growing threats from terrorism and piracy have required an increased U.S. military presence. Notably, the 2010 Quadrennial Defense Review argued that the United States has an interest in the stability of the region as a whole and called for an assessment that includes U.S. national interests, objectives and posture implications.

The initial impetus was the war on terror. Bases from Bahrain in the Gulf to Diego Garcia deep in the Indian Ocean provide critical support for U.S. operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Fragile littoral states including Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan are at the forefront of international concern about extremism.

Iran's drive to acquire a nuclear weapons capability could yet plunge the Middle East into a major conflict. And U.S. naval forces operating in the Indian Ocean have played a vital leadership role in disaster relief, including after the tragic 2004 Boxing Day tsunami, and in protecting commercial shipping from pirates.

Now U.S. and Australian interest in the Indian Ocean is taking on a new dimension. As Robert Kaplan recently highlighted in his book "Monsoon," economic ties are burgeoning across and around the Indian Ocean region. China and India, Asia's rising economic giants, both depend on its sea lanes for vital energy supplies and to carry their goods to market; and today China is India's biggest trade partner. This trade is also driving Australia's mining boom, shifting the country's economic center of gravity west and north.

So far this has been a good news story, with commerce lifting tens of millions of people in Asia out of poverty and providing a much-needed fillip to an ailing global economy. It may yet turn out well. But there are worrying signs.

View Full Image
shearer
Associated Press

An Australian ship leaving Darwin harbor to take part in a 2004 naval exercise. Canberra, along with Washington, can help promote peace in the Indian Ocean.
shearer
shearer

China and India remain at loggerheads over their disputed land border and other irritants, such as India's support for Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama. In return, Beijing's support for a nuclear-armed Pakistan that sponsors terrorism against India deeply galls New Delhi.

China's current military focus may be on what its strategists label the "near sea"—the waters of the Western Pacific, including the disputed South and East China Seas—where its increasingly muscular naval and diplomatic presence have been alarming Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, Vietnam and other Southeast Asian littoral states. There are already signs, however, that the Asian maritime competition triggered by China's rapid military modernization is spilling over into the Indian Ocean.

China's deployment of a task force to conduct anti-piracy operations off the Horn of Africa may have been intended at least in part to bolster China's lackluster credentials as a responsible international stakeholder. But it pricked concerns in New Delhi, which was already sensitive to reports China is seeking to develop ports in Burma, Sri Lanka and Pakistan—the so-called "string of pearls." In time, China's development of a blue-water navy could jeopardize India's longstanding preeminence within its eponymous ocean.

Australia and the U.S., both maritime democracies with a huge stake in Asia's stability and an open international trading system, cannot regard these events with equanimity. China's restrictive interpretation of the Law of the Sea and development of weapons intended to deny much of the Western Pacific to U.S. and allied forces pose a major threat to freedom of navigation in waters that are vital to both nations.

China's growing military reach and assertiveness are fuelling neighbors' uncertainty about its strategic intentions. As a result, a web of informal bilateral security arrangements is springing up between the U.S., Australia, India and Japan. When a more formal quadrilateral grouping was proposed in 2007, China was quick to cry "containment."

But Beijing's challenge to freedom of navigation in the Indo-Pacific means these countries should be thinking about bringing together their proliferating bilateral maritime security links in a collective arrangement, one that could pool resources to mount rapid responses to natural disasters and other contingencies and work together to keep Asia's vital sea lanes open. Given its crucial geography and history as the keystone of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, Indonesia could be a key player in such a grouping.

The U.S. and Australia should rally regional countries in defense of keeping the world's crucial sea lanes open, as U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton did at last year's meeting of the Asean Regional Forum. A vital first step would be to link these partners, and any others who would like to participate, in a seamless intelligence and surveillance network to monitor maritime security developments.

Australia and America should also encourage Asian partners to develop compatible capabilities in key areas such as undersea warfare and exercise those capabilities collectively. Australia should ensure that its new submarines are interoperable with counterparts from the U.S. and Japan and can operate from forward bases such as Guam. And it would be foolish to take off the table the option of acquiring U.S.-built nuclear-powered submarines if they offer the best fit with Australia's future needs.

Australia can support the United States in the vital task of ensuring that Sino-Indian rivalry does not escalate over time into something worse. Providing greater access for major U.S. naval and air assets—perhaps on Australia's Indian Ocean coast—would be a good place to start.

Mr. Mahnken is the Jerome Levy chair of economic geography and national security at the U.S. Naval War College. Mr. Shearer is director of studies at Australia's Lowy Institute for International Policy.

Thomas Mahnken and Andrew Shearer: Leading in the Indian Ocean - WSJ.com

 

[below_freezing]

US's carrier fleet also poses a major threat to China's freedom of navigation.

We are willing to make the entire Western Pacific a warship free zone. Does the US dare accept this offer? But in the future, it may have no choice but to accept but this time only US ships will leave..

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

US, Russia join Asia club in a blow to China: analysts

by Staff Writers
Hanoi (AFP) Oct 29, 2010
The United States and Russia will be formally welcomed into a 16-nation Asian bloc on Saturday, in what analysts say is a blow to Chinese attempts to diminish US influence in the region.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov will be invited to join the East Asia Summit (EAS) when the group holds its annual summit in Hanoi on Saturday.

Their entry into the EAS, which elevates its diplomatic heft, comes despite Chinese attempts to promote another grouping -- which does not include the US -- as the region's premier forum for regional cooperation.

"China will be very uneasy", said John Lee, a China expert at Australia's Centre for Independent Studies think-tank.

"This all points to a significant blow to China's broader competitive strategy in Asia, which is designed to gradually ease America out of the region in the longer term," he said.

Established in 2005, the EAS is a forum for dialogue on strategic, political and economic issues involving the 10 ASEAN members as well as Australia, China, India, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand.

US membership "is part of the American strategic 'coming back' to Southeast Asia... to balance China's growing influence in Southeast Asia," said Li Mingjian from the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore.

Observers say China's increasingly assertive stance over issues including maritime territorial disputes may well have pushed its smaller neighbours into Washington's arms.

"Chinese diplomacy has been terrible over the past year," Lee said. "Consequently, Asian nations were more than eager to have the US join the EAS whereas there was reluctance in some parts beforehand."

Beijing claims all of the South China Sea including the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos, potentially resource-rich rocky outcrops which straddle strategic shipping lanes.

Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam also have whole or partial claims over the region.

While China favours a bilateral approach in dealing with individual claimants, other Asian nations and the US are pushing for a united stand which will give them more bargaining power.

Clinton angered China in July by wading into the South China Sea issue, saying that resolving disputes over the strategic area is "pivotal" to regional stability, and offering to negotiate a settlement amongst claimants.

To the north another territorial row has flared between China and Japan after the September arrest of a Chinese trawler captain near Japanese-administered islands, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

The US and China are also in the midst of a currency spat.

Washington has long accused China of keeping the yuan artificially low, while Beijing says the Federal Reserve's loose monetary policy risks undermining emerging economies.

Clinton, in a speech on Asia-Pacific relations Thursday, downplayed suggestions the US is duelling with China for influence in the region.

"There are some in both countries who believe that China's interests and ours are fundamentally at odds. They apply a zero-sum calculation to our relationship. So whenever one of us succeeds, the other must fail," she said.

"But that is not our view," she said in the speech in Honolulu. "So we are working together to chart a positive, cooperative, and comprehensive relationship."

Beijing should embrace the chance to work alongside Washington in the EAS and accept its stabilising role in the region, said Carl Thayer, a Southeast Asia analyst at the Australian Defence Force Academy.

"The US presence keeps Japan from militarising and going nuclear and the US military lends stability to the Korean peninsula," he said.

Russia's admittance to the EAS club is much less controversial, with analysts saying its importance lies in energy exports and acting as a deterrent to Sino-American rivalry dominating the bloc.

Russia and the US will officially join the EAS at the next meeting in Indonesia in 2011, enabling US President Barack Obama and his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev to attend as full members that year.

US, Russia join Asia club in a blow to China: analysts