China's J-15 Carrier-Based Fighter is Inferior to Russian Su-33 fighter: Russia

[gambit]

Nobody has to reinvent the wheel. China was far behind in military technology so they reverse engineered many weapons to catch up with the West and Russia. This has been learning process for China and I think in this decade we will see them start developing weapons from their own designs.

Absolutely. There are two main reasons on why a 'reverse engineering' endeavor is started: To learn or to copy. The two reasons may create some overlapping programs but those programs took their directions from either of the main reasons.

The reverse engineering endeavor cannot begin unless there is a finalized product, be it the wheel or an aircraft. The product is disassembled to as low a component level as possible, contingent upon the disassembler's technological competency. The greater said competency, the more subsystems can be individually studied and characterized.

Engineers who specialized in product characterizations are important at this point as they are collectively the intellectual bridge between components or subsystems and the final product. Characterization engineers must reconcile and correlate the theoretical principles that are supposedly associated to their assigned components or subsystems and publish what they believe to be behaviors of those components or subsystems, contingent upon their technological competency, of course.

The 'characterization engineer' is not a job description that anyone can pull out of the air for the sake of this debate...

https://hrprod.ext.ti.com/psc/pspro..._JOB_DTL&Action=A&JobOpeningId=36721&SiteId=2

Characterization Engineer

Responsibilities include:
- Lab characterization for digital, analog, and mixed signal devices.
- Design, develop, and implement complex lab and bench data collection setups to collect statistical performance measurements.
- Design and development of EVMs to assist with system level validation and characterization and customer interface
- Provide full ownership to analyze collected data to verify performance or application robustness.
- Develop automation routines to optimize data collection/system level validation/verification process.
- Design test fixtures, lab boards, and hardware interfaces.
- Develop test plans, specifications, and procedures for characterizing integrated circuits.
- Support internal/external customers related to lab data collection and verification of an application issue.

Technical competency must be comparable across all disciplines and at this level lies the greatest potential for reproduction failures. To 'reproduce' here does not mean to produce an immediate indigenous version of the original, if the goal is to copy, but also to preserve what is gleamed from the analysis for future indigenous projects if the goal is to learn. So if there is a chasm of technical competency between the PhD-ed aerodynamicist and the mathematician who assisted the fresh out of school BS-ed avionics engineer, the odds of an actual crash or simulation failure is increased.

Bottom line here is that to 'reverse engineer' is to create an indigenous version, or copy, of an imported original whose legality is another issue. The opposite is 'forward engineering' that created the original in the first place. The last is 'value engineering' where an existing product is improved based upon new discoveries such as materials or softwares. The heavily modified MIG-21 Bison is an example of the overlapping of all three types of engineering. The F-18 Super Hornet also another example of this overlapping with heavy emphasis on 'forward engineering'.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Time will tell about J-15 Carrier-Based Fighter !!!!!!!!!

 

[ptldM3]

Time will tell about J-15 Carrier-Based Fighter !!!!!!!!!

Tell time to hurry up

 

[中华人民共和&#]

To all Chinese and Pakistani fanboys on this thread, learn how to argue without getting personal, its clearly showing your frustration.

Haha, this clearly shows someone is getting personal... You showing your frustration here bud?

 

[contender]

Haha, this clearly shows someone is getting personal... You showing your frustration here bud?

Buddy, thats a textbook example of manipulative psychological Indian mind set, "Indians are always right, the world is all wrong", refuse to acknowledge "Facts", fed the viewers with false information, remarks etc. However when nothing else is working for them, here come their last stand by getting personal, typical loser's mentality in full display.

 

[hboGYT]

Despite Russia's crapy avionics on offer, they always claim to be better than the Chinese version.

It's the same thing with the J-11B controversy, the Russian's claiming that a "copy" is always worse than the original (Su-27SK). It's false. J-11B at least has a planar array radar that supports ARH AAM. Su-27SK is just obsolete.

I'm guessing the Russians can't offer anything better than what the Chinese have for Su-33 either.

 

[ptldM3]

Despite Russia's crapy avionics on offer, they always claim to be better than the Chinese version.

It's the same thing with the J-11B controversy, the Russian's claiming that a "copy" is always worse than the original (Su-27SK). It's false. J-11B at least has a planar array radar that supports ARH AAM. Su-27SK is just obsolete.

I'm guessing the Russians can't offer anything better than what the Chinese have for Su-33 either.

It is not a question of can Russia offer anything better but a question of what they are willing to offer. Remember China wanted to purchase avionics from the SU-35BM. Russia now has started production of the ZHUK AESA radar, that coupled with many other goodies such as the 142kn TVC'd 117S engine, OLS-35, and IBRIS-E makes Russia's avionics packages very attractive.

 

[MZUBAIR]

It is not a question of can Russia offer anything better but a question of what they are willing to offer. Remember China wanted to purchase avionics from the SU-35BM. Russia now has started production of the ZHUK AESA radar, that coupled with many other goodies such as the 142kn TVC'd 117S engine, OLS-35, and IBRIS-E makes Russia's avionics packages very attractive.

Y, Pakistan cant get Russian AC's ?

 

[ptldM3]

Y, Pakistan cant get Russian AC's ?

Probably because Pakistan has never approach Russia, another reason is because the F-16 suits Pakistan well.

 

[SBD-3]

Probably because Pakistan has never approach Russia, another reason is because the F-16 suits Pakistan well.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/50251-russia-offered-su-27-mig-29-paf-90s.html

 

[Jazzbot]

i think Pakistan never tried to approach Russia, idk what were the main reasons but i think it would have better if we tried to go for Russia instead of USA in past, things would have lot better for us today..

 

[ptldM3]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/50251-russia-offered-su-27-mig-29-paf-90s.html

Still Pakistan never approached. Like i said the F-16 suits Pakistan well, it's cheap in cost, effective, pilots are familiar with it, maintanance crews are familiar with it, and it's cheaper to operate compared to a twin engine fighter. For the link you posted, it may be true or it may be completely false, i have read my fair share of false publication and news reports.

 

[trident2010]

Y, Pakistan cant get Russian AC's ?

But people here dying saying that Chinese copies are better, so hope they are right

 

[Jazzbot]

But people here dying saying that Chinese copies are better, so hope they are right

practically speaking we can't say which one is better until unless china publishes full details of their projects, or they are fully tested in real battle scenarios.. But sad things is neither gonna happen anywhere soon.. So its quite useless to argue about this right now..

 

[trident2010]

practically speaking we can't say which one is better until unless china publishes full details of their projects, or they are fully tested in real battle scenarios.. But sad things is neither gonna happen anywhere soon.. So its quite useless to argue about this right now..

Yes you are right. However looking at the experience difference and the vast array of technology Russia perfected. My bet is on Russian fighters. When both release the details to analyse then we can see the true picture.