China’s Homemade Jet to Rival Airbus, Boeing May Be Certified This Month

[Song Hong]

Airbus and Boeing are two idle and complacent duopoly in commercial aviation. I would say Airbus is better,

The original Canadian Bombardier A220 can easily beaten A320 neo and 737 max if Bombardier can create a A225.

The US and European gang up to kill Bombardier commercial aviation.

I guess they cannot do that with China. Sooner or later China will make one aircraft better than Airbus and Boeing. Probably C919 us already better,

 

[Bilal9]

T

That is what I said lol, and you are repeating it like Beijing......

I mean if the Chinese government is going to force their company to buy them, then yeah, it won't be a problem, but my point is, if they are not forced to, would they? I mean it's just 6 million off of a Boeing.

Profitability isn't the point here, govt. dictum is. 6 or 7 million dollars this way or that way doesn't matter.

If Chinese govt. owned airlines have a Chinese made airliner option - why will they run to Boeing or Airbus? They will support their own homegrown airliner industry. This isn't the EU or US. Different game, different rules. Or they will buy a few of the COMAC airliner now and increase the fleet size for the type later.

And I don't think it is a matter of "forcing" a choice. Their govt. as a whole have long term goals to grow their own aerospace industry and most importantly, reduce dependency on Western Civil Aircraft. Nothing wrong with that goal. And I think that is a great thing. More choice aside from the hegemony of the twin rivals in this segment of the market.

Airbus A320's are also assembled in Tianjin (China) by the way, and 737's were supposed to be as well, last I heard.

All airliner companies want a slice of the Chinese market.

 

[Song Hong]

Boeing is just a little more than assembler of aircraft spare parts.

 

[jhungary]

Profitability isn't the point here, govt. dictum is. 6 or 7 million dollars this way or that way doesn't matter.

If Chinese govt. owned airlines have a Chinese made airliner option - why will they run to Boeing or Airbus? They will support their own homegrown airliner industry. This isn't the EU or US. Different game, different rules. Or they will buy a few of the COMAC airliner now and increase the fleet size for the type later.

And I don't think it is a matter of "forcing" a choice. They have long term goals to grow their own aerospace industry. Nothing wrong with that goal. And I think that is a great thing. More choice aside from the hegemony of the twin rivals in this segment of the market.

Airbus A320's are also assembled in Tianjin (China) by the way, and 737's were supposed to be as well, last I heard.

All airliner companies want a slice of the Chinese market.

Well, if government dictate the buy, then we will see a lot more than just 870 orders now. So the fringe things always matter IMO, I guess I would have to agree to disagree with the point.

 

[casual]

If this is the case, then should we see a larger order of C919 from the Chinese Airline? 870 is not a big number, like you said, if national sentiment is an issue, buying 250 Airbus and then buy 20 C919 should have already been name and shamed.



Again, the same replies as above, then we should have seen C919 ordered in thousands at least (there are 6000 standing order for Airbus A320 and 5300 for Boeing 737 MAX despite those accident) 800 plus change order is not really that much, and as other people said China is going to need 8000 plus aircraft in the next 10 years

870 is too small? Bro you are trying too hard with your strawman argument. 870 orders will cover all C919 production for like 7 years.

 

[Paitoo]

The price is about the same as its boeing and airbus competitors from what I read.

Unless China can develop indigenous avionics, engines and landing gear, there is no reason why it will be substantially cheaper than western jets. The engines are P&W, and the components are either sourced from western companies or manufactured under JV. Making only the airframe locally will not lead to substantial savings.

All aircraft OEMs are basically assemblers and are on level playing field when it comes to costs.

 

[jhungary]

870 is too small? Bro you are trying too hard with your strawman argument. 870 orders will cover all C919 production for like 7 years.

870 is small in aviation term.......Dude, even with the MAX debacle, Boeing 737 Max still have 5300 firm order and increased by 300 per year.....Sure C919 is untested, but if the government push, they could have 1 or 2,000 order easy, I mean C919 won't be as shit as Boeing 737 MAX rep, right?

None of the airline have MOU or Firm order of over 50 aircraft, and also MAX started selling 1 year after C919 went on offer in 2010...

So yes, 870 order is small.

 

[casual]

870 is small in aviation term.......Dude, even with the MAX debacle, Boeing 737 Max still have 5300 firm order and increased by 1000 per year.....Sure C919 is untested, but if the government push, they could have 1 or 2,000 order easy, I mean C919 won't be as shit as Boeing 737 MAX rep, right?

None of the airline have MOU or Firm order of over 50 aircraft, and also MAX started selling 1 year after C919 went on offer in 2010...

So yes, 870 order is small.

Dude, do you realize how retarded you sound right now? Iet me give you an example. It's like you are arguing in 2010 that Tesla is a worthless because the don't sell as many vehicles as Ford. Comac just started while boeing has need in the business for 60 years. Comac is still building out the assembly lines. And will be lucky to produce 30 planes next year. 870 orders is a lot.

And Comac will need to switch out western subsystems

 

[kuge]

870 is small in aviation term.......Dude, even with the MAX debacle, Boeing 737 Max still have 5300 firm order and increased by 300 per year.....Sure C919 is untested, but if the government push, they could have 1 or 2,000 order easy, I mean C919 won't be as shit as Boeing 737 MAX rep, right?

None of the airline have MOU or Firm order of over 50 aircraft, and also MAX started selling 1 year after C919 went on offer in 2010...

So yes, 870 order is small.

comac is a start up. dont compare one on one with the matured companies...

 

[jhungary]

comac is a start up. dont compare one on one with the matured companies...

That's my entire point.

I mean, the only way a start up can win is either offer their product with financial or quality incentive. Well, I would not think C919 is superior than Airbus A320 or Boeing 737MAX in term of quality, which mean for C919 to make inroad, whether to Chinese or Overseas company, they would need to offer financial incentive.

But then the previous two guys I asked have said this does not matter. Well.......I don't know, maybe Chinese government will mandate Chinese Airline to buy C919 in the future? But if C919 is really 6 million cheaper per pop, I don't see even Chinese Airline will buy them, again, unless there is a government mandate... Because you are investing in an unknown platform, with 6 million per as incentive...I don't think that's enough to push, but well....

 

[Deino]

China’s frontline carrier-based fighter aircraft is the J-15. The J-15 is a stolen design and unlicensed Chinese development based on a T-10K-3 prototype of the Russian Su-33 Flanker-D. There are conflicting reports of the J-15 design being flawed, resulting in four known and multiple unknown crashes. Domestically developed WS-10H engines are unreliable compared to original Russian Salyut AL-31F engines. It is confirmed that unstable flight control systems were the key factor behind the at least two fatal accidents couple of years ago.

Indian navy pilots can actually land fighters on the deck of aircraft carriers. As opposed to PLAN that has needed Russian pilots to do deck landings on its flat-tops. Some humility is indeed in order....

Really? Not sure what you smoked but nothing in your reply is correct: Not the mentioned prototype - it was T-10K7-, not the BS story ob being a flawed design - based on a most stupid WantChinaTimes report - not that part of the WS-10 and even less this part of any alleged „confirmation“ of an unstable FCS.
Yes, the J-15 had some mishaps and losses but since it was probably the most intensively flown type in PLA inventory and due to the fact, the the PLAN had no previous experience.


But your biggest joke is actually your final paragraph: „Indian navy pilots can actually land fighters on the deck of aircraft carriers.“ since you forgot to add, when they are out at sea … and how rarely they are - basically more than seldom - is also a known fact.

So please do us a favour and stop with this pathetic BS:

 

[jhungary]

Dude, do you realize how retarded you sound right now? Iet me give you an example. It's like you are arguing in 2010 that Tesla is a worthless because the don't sell as many vehicles as Ford. Comac just started while boeing has need in the business for 60 years. Comac is still building out the assembly lines. And will be lucky to produce 30 planes next year. 870 orders is a lot.

And Comac will need to switch out western subsystems

well, if you don't know aircraft production line is basically a forward looking into how much order you have, then you probably are the retard. You plan the aircraft manufacture facilities according to order you have or projected to have, you don't just wind down the operation and close up shop immediately or move on to the next production line. All these take times, and you lose money in between

And yes, 870 order may seems a lot in number but in terms of the entire production line to build said aircraft, it is not, you are talking about 8 years' worth of production, you won't even break even if that's all you got. The original Boeing 737 take 16 years of production to break even, Airbus A300 took 14, again, it seems like you know nothing about Airline Industry.

 

[kuge]

Really? Not sure what you smoked but nothing in your reply is correct: Not the mentioned prototype - it was T-10K7-, not the BS story ob being a flawed design - based on a most stupid WantChinaTimes report - not that part of the WS-10 and even less this part of any alleged „confirmation“ of an unstable FCS.
Yes, the J-15 had some mishaps and losses but since it was probably the most intensively flown type in PLA inventory and due to the fact, the the PLAN had no previous experience.


But your biggest joke is actually your final paragraph: „Indian navy pilots can actually land fighters on the deck of aircraft carriers.“ since you forgot to add, when they are out at sea … and how rarely they are - basically more than seldom - is also a known fact.

So please do us a favour and stop with this pathetic BS:

i am really really surprised you should answer that pathetic troll...he is itching for a ban...

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Ground reality is that you are a wumao and all you know about India is from comments under YouTube videos, Facebook feeds and on odd days some Twitter threads.

I mean, a lowly minion of Xitler... The tinpot commie dictator who spends a chunk of CCP's political capital to brush things under the carpet with obnoxious and nauseous propaganda all round the year is lecturing an open, free minded Indian on "ground reality".

It's better to take a prostitute's word on the number of men she's slept with than take a wumao's word on "we live in China"

Avertissement de redirection

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India has suspended tourist visas issued to Chinese nationals: IATA

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www.google.com

tell the truth. Would you believe any propaganda of Poor low quality 150cm Indians?

Would you believe that India is a superpower? Even Indians suffer from severe hunger and malnutrition. There is no toilet or running water. No electricity or cars. Love lizards...

Do you really believe Modi's claim that India is a superpower? Even if the world ridicules India as a poor and backward third world country?

congratulate. You were successfully brainwashed by Modi.

Ah San is always Ah San. No change.

Gaon Connection : India's Biggest Rural Media Platform

Gaon Connection (www.gaonconnection.com) is India's biggest rural media platform, a two-way street that takes information to knowledge-starved rural communities and brings information about everything...

en.gaonconnection.com

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

WOO-mow is always WOO-mow. No change

Xi Jinping admits China could face a severe food crisis in 2022

The soil is turning toxic, returns are low and crop yields hardly make agriculture a viable career option for China 's citizens.

www.google.com

Vedanta, Foxconn to invest $19.5 billion in India's Gujarat for chip, display project

Vedanta Ltd and Taiwan's Foxconn will invest $19.5 billion under pacts signed on Tuesday to set up semiconductor and display production plants in Gujarat, the home state of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

www.reuters.com

India is quietly laying claim to economic superpower status

India recently overtook UK as the world’s fifth biggest economy – and it could be third by 2030

www.theguardian.com

Poor low quality 150cm Indians