China's fifth-generation fighter to fly 'soon'

[fatman17]

ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2009

Jane's Defence Weekly


China's fifth-generation fighter to fly 'soon'

Ted Parsons JDW Correspondent - Washington, DC

The Deputy Commander General of the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), He Weirong, announced that China's 'fourth-generation fighter' - considered fifth-generation in the West - would fly "soon" and that it would enter service in "eight to 10 years".

The 8 November announcement, broadcast on Chinese state television, is the second official Chinese statement on the country's next-generation fighter programme.

Just before the PLA Navy's 60th anniversary this April, PLA Navy Commander Admiral Wu Shengli gave a speech in which he outlined future requirements as including a fighter capable of "supersonic cruise".

Beyond this, real knowledge of China's fourth/fifth-generation fighter programme is limited. Just before Gen He's statement, some widely circulated though unconfirmed Chinese internet data held that the fifth-generation fighter prototype could fly as early as 2010, albeit with 12- to 13-ton-thrust FSW10A/WS10A turbofans, as the planned 15-ton WS-15 engines are not yet ready. China may reportedly acquire up to 300 of these fighters.

It has been long expected that China's next-generation fighter would be capable of supercruise, use stealth technology, have advanced electronic systems such as an active electronically scanned array radar and use thrust vectoring to achieve high post-stall manoeuvrability.

The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation is thought to be pursuing a twin-engine stealth canard-delta design. The Shenyang Aircraft Corporation was thought to be pursuing a conventional twin-engine design, but for recent arms shows has been exhibiting advanced canard delta designs that incorporate forward- and back-swept wings. Chinese sources have also hinted there may be a medium-weight fighter programme to complement the heavyweight fifth-generation fighter.

Gen He's statement would appear to contradict the assessment of the US intelligence community, which was revealed by US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates on 16 July when he stated that in 2020 the US Air Force would have "nearly 1,100" combat aircraft consisting of "the most advanced fifth-generation F-35s and F-22s. China, by contrast, is projected to have no fifth-generation aircraft by 2020. And by 2025, the gap only widens. The US will have approximately 1,700 of the most advanced fifth-generation fighters versus a handful of comparable aircraft for the Chinese".

This assessment was used to help justify this past summer's rejection by the US Congress of funding to extend production of the Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor beyond 187.

 

[conworldus]

ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2009

Jane's Defence Weekly


China's fifth-generation fighter to fly 'soon'

Ted Parsons JDW Correspondent - Washington, DC

The Deputy Commander General of the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), He Weirong, announced that China's 'fourth-generation fighter' - considered fifth-generation in the West - would fly "soon" and that it would enter service in "eight to 10 years".

The 8 November announcement, broadcast on Chinese state television, is the second official Chinese statement on the country's next-generation fighter programme.

Just before the PLA Navy's 60th anniversary this April, PLA Navy Commander Admiral Wu Shengli gave a speech in which he outlined future requirements as including a fighter capable of "supersonic cruise".

Beyond this, real knowledge of China's fourth/fifth-generation fighter programme is limited. Just before Gen He's statement, some widely circulated though unconfirmed Chinese internet data held that the fifth-generation fighter prototype could fly as early as 2010, albeit with 12- to 13-ton-thrust FSW10A/WS10A turbofans, as the planned 15-ton WS-15 engines are not yet ready. China may reportedly acquire up to 300 of these fighters.

It has been long expected that China's next-generation fighter would be capable of supercruise, use stealth technology, have advanced electronic systems such as an active electronically scanned array radar and use thrust vectoring to achieve high post-stall manoeuvrability.

The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation is thought to be pursuing a twin-engine stealth canard-delta design. The Shenyang Aircraft Corporation was thought to be pursuing a conventional twin-engine design, but for recent arms shows has been exhibiting advanced canard delta designs that incorporate forward- and back-swept wings. Chinese sources have also hinted there may be a medium-weight fighter programme to complement the heavyweight fifth-generation fighter.

Gen He's statement would appear to contradict the assessment of the US intelligence community, which was revealed by US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates on 16 July when he stated that in 2020 the US Air Force would have "nearly 1,100" combat aircraft consisting of "the most advanced fifth-generation F-35s and F-22s. China, by contrast, is projected to have no fifth-generation aircraft by 2020. And by 2025, the gap only widens. The US will have approximately 1,700 of the most advanced fifth-generation fighters versus a handful of comparable aircraft for the Chinese".

This assessment was used to help justify this past summer's rejection by the US Congress of funding to extend production of the Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor beyond 187.

J-10 actually entered service as early as 2004. However, it wasn't revealed officially until 2008. I estimate the prototype of the next gen fighter started in 2004, too, and it makes sense to fly it after 5 or 6 years. Hopefully it will enter service in 2015 or so. The difficulty for China is not the stealth, super sonic cruising design, but the engine still.

 

[gambit]

J-10 actually entered service as early as 2004. However, it wasn't revealed officially until 2008. I estimate the prototype of the next gen fighter started in 2004, too, and it makes sense to fly it after 5 or 6 years. Hopefully it will enter service in 2015 or so. The difficulty for China is not the stealth, super sonic cruising design, but the engine still.

Incorrect...The F-117 is subsonic and does not have a radar. If low observability is not such a problem for China, it would be foolish not to develop such an aircraft with being a regional power. This capability would offer other regional powers such as South Korea and Japan, US allies, challenges to their militaries and would give China greater influences in South Asia, out of reach of those militaries. So the truth is that low observability shaping IS difficult for China.

 

[Kuuba]

Incorrect...The F-117 is subsonic and does not have a radar. If low observability is not such a problem for China, it would be foolish not to develop such an aircraft with being a regional power. This capability would offer other regional powers such as South Korea and Japan, US allies, challenges to their militaries and would give China greater influences in South Asia, out of reach of those militaries. So the truth is that low observability shaping IS difficult for China.

Shaping is the easiest part of low observability tech. Material is something we thought difficult and where US is far more advanced. But it is proved not. How can we compare the material? You can even find it on ebay after B2 falling...

BTW, the so-called stealth is not invisible to all width radar. Don't be cheated by Hollywood.

The reason why it's not on J10A, I guess, is that we were not confident enough at that time.

As conworldus said, the real challenge is engine. That is the realm hard to catch.

 

[gambit]

Shaping is the easiest part of low observability tech. Material is something we thought difficult and where US is far more advanced. But it is proved not. How can we get the material? You can even find it on ebay after B2 falling...

BTW, the so-called stealth is not invisible to all width radar. Don't be cheated by Hollywood.

As conworldus said, the real challenge is engine. That is the realm hard to catch.

I suggest you search for my postings here on radar detection and 'stealth' before I completely shred your above argument. My advice to you is do not be gullible to what the Russians and the Chinese said.

 

[lockh33d]

I suggest you search for my postings here on radar detection and 'stealth' before I completely shred your above argument. My advice to you is do not be gullible to what the Russians and the Chinese said.

Lol no offence "teach" but from past experiences, everything you wrote from your so called "many years of experience" turned out to be bollox, such as in the case of the DF-21. "How could the DF-21 have have such a high explosive round capable of knocking out a carrier division when it is so negligible in size? It's impossible, don't believe your Commie propaganda bla bla bla..." Well Mister, it apparently turns out YOU'VE been debunked and all your speculation based theory is simply bollox after I did some research of my own. Trust me, the missile IS capable of knocking out a Nimitz Class Carrier. Sadly for you, you disregarded what's important from the start-The warhead itself. What's worse was I believed some of your hype, propaganda the way I see it and I fell for your trap. Damn, your old age(Sorry "sir") and sense of experience got to me and I trusted you, like I do with all Yanks(Not a bad term, Americans like being called that). Anyhow, back on track, it is simply better to leave this J-14 case to decide for ourselves, and I know darn well what the Chinese members here know, and want to believe and trust. Thank you.

 

[gambit]

Lol no offence "teach" but from past experiences, everything you wrote from your so called "many years of experience" turned out to be bollox, such as in the case of the DF-21. "How could the DF-21 have have such a high explosive round capable of knocking out a carrier division when it is so negligible in size? It's impossible, don't believe your Commie propaganda bla bla bla..." Well Mister, it apparently turns out YOU'VE been debunked and all your speculation based theory is simply bollox after I did some research of my own. Trust me, the missile IS capable of knocking out a Nimitz Class Carrier. Sadly for you, you disregarded what's important from the start-The warhead itself. What's worse was I believed some of your hype, propaganda the way I see it and I fell for your trap. Damn, your old age(Sorry "sir") and sense of experience got to me and I trusted you, like I do with all Yanks(Not a bad term, Americans like being called that). Anyhow, back on track, it is simply better to leave this J-14 case to decide for ourselves, and I know darn well what the Chinese members here know, and want to believe and trust. Thank you.

I have yet to see any credible argument from you or anyone else, other than speculation, as to how that could be done. But you are welcome to give it another try.

 

[lockh33d]

I have yet to see any credible argument from you or anyone else, other than speculation, as to how that could be done. But you are welcome to give it another try.

Look man, I know this is hard for you to understand, but unlike the majority here, I don't get my info from online sources, rather, I get my sources from the source itself-CCP. Hence, if I am to share anything, anything at all, it'd just give away the truth, why would I do that?

Obviously, I'd be a nutter to think that you'd take all my words in, for that to happen, I'd be in heaven. No I wouldn't be actually, I don't care whether you take it in or not. Anywho, I'm 100% positive that you think I'm disillusioned at this moment but that's natural, it'd take uncalculatable hits to the head with a sharp edged katana for someone to take another person's word literally, especially when he makes it sound so grand. In conclusion, I think, and I believe you'd think too, that it's best to leave it here where it is now, and let each one of us here have our independence, before this thread gets out of hand like every other Indian thread and leave it here. What do you say, Captain?

 

[gambit]

Look man, I know this is hard for you to understand, but unlike the majority here, I don't get my info from online sources, rather, I get my sources from the source itself-CCP. Hence, if I am to share anything, anything at all, it'd just give away the truth, why would I do that?

Translation: You have nothing substantive.

Looky here...I saw no need to continue that 'carrier-killer' discussion because it was heading nowhere. The only conclusion that it was possible to incapacitate a US nuclear carrier with a non-nuclear DF-21 is thru a 'spray and pray' method. The argument about 'published' specs strictly for strategic versus tactical purposes was hilarious.

But forget about the navy for now. Support your argument that it is 'easy' to shape a body for passive RCS reduction. Or should I take it that your source, the Chinese government, is telling the gospel truth?

 

[grey boy 2]

I have yet to see any credible argument from you or anyone else, other than speculation, as to how that could be done. But you are welcome to give it another try.

Yes, Mr. elder, here you go again,

You know why? because you thought you are expert.

Face it, I have been a lot of US military forum, nobody talk like you,

the real expert are humble and friendly, just professinal talk to share

information and knowledge, no hate involve.

But you are just someone special, i must say.

May be your hate is catching up with your age.

 

[lockh33d]

Translation: You have nothing substantive.

Looky here...I saw no need to continue that 'carrier-killer' discussion because it was heading nowhere. The only conclusion that it was possible to incapacitate a US nuclear carrier with a non-nuclear DF-21 is thru a 'spray and pray' method. The argument about 'published' specs strictly for strategic versus tactical purposes was hilarious.

But forget about the navy for now. Support your argument that it is 'easy' to shape a body for passive RCS reduction. Or should I take it that your source, the Chinese government, is telling the gospel truth?

Hmm, I'll use a term you'd understand for the following question:

the Chinese government, is telling the gospel truth?

Hoooooahhhhhh.

Anyways, I know you're like a brick wall to pass info through, so I'm going to leave it here. Yes I get my info from the CCP but NO I don't get it through the State media nor its propaganda. OK, just to stop your jibber jabber after this, members of my family were employed by the govt through out the decades, and know people well from different ministries throughout. Hence, some light has been shed on some military projects, but in very small detail. Hence, take in what in you want to for yourself or disregard everything which I've said, which I can guarantee myself that you'll make that decision. Anywho, call me mental, call me a "retard" if you will, I'm not going to go against what you say, I promise, I have great respect for America, and will never directly go against it or its people. However, I must point out that you should reconsider before other people make what you say after me a flame thread and all out war.

Hooahhh

 

[gambit]

Yes, Mr. elder, here you go again,

You know why? because you thought you are expert.

Face it, I have been a lot of US military forum, nobody talk like you,

the real expert are humble and friendly, just professinal talk to share

information and knowledge, no hate involve.

But you are just someone special, i must say.

May be your hate is catching up with your age.

That just goes to show how gullible and limited you really are. You do not know how I 'talk' on other forums. For all you know, you could have been reading me all this time.



So the lesson for you is to learn how to read beyond the apparent attitude and focus on the CONTENT.

 

[gambit]

Hmm, I'll use a term you'd understand for the following question:

the Chinese government, is telling the gospel truth?

Hoooooahhhhhh.

Anyways, I know you're like a brick wall to pass info through, so I'm going to leave it here. Yes I get my info from the CCP but NO I don't get it through the State media nor its propaganda. OK, just to stop your jibber jabber after this, members of my family were employed by the govt through out the decades, and know people well from different ministries throughout. Hence, some light has been shed on some military projects, but in very small detail. Hence, take in what in you want to for yourself or disregard everything which I've said, which I can guarantee myself that you'll make that decision. Anywho, call me mental, call me a "retard" if you will, I'm not going to go against what you say, I promise, I have great respect for America, and will never directly go against it or its people. However, I must point out that you should reconsider before other people make what you say after me a flame thread and all out war.

Hooahhh

Nonsense...Calling you 'gullible' is not calling you mentally deficient. Now if you have nothing to contribute to the enlightenment and entertainment value to the readers, then leave others to embarrass themselves with public knowledge while you silently bask in secret knowledge.

 

[lockh33d]

Nonsense...Calling you 'gullible' is not calling you mentally deficient. Now if you have nothing to contribute to the enlightenment and entertainment value to the readers, then leave others to embarrass themselves with public knowledge while you silently bask in secret knowledge.

affirmative sir, though I'd like to bet you a few bucks that something magical will happen in 2013-2015. Hmm, what should we set it? 1/2 a grand for each event? Hmm? Obviously, such will be disclosed at a much later date officially, other than that. Dismissed I am, hooahh.

 

[grey boy 2]

That just goes to show how gullible and limited you really are. You do not know how I 'talk' on other forums. For all you know, you could have been reading me all this time.



So the lesson for you is to learn how to read beyond the apparent attitude and focus on the CONTENT.

Oh yeah, since you claim i may be reading your great posts,

Tell me did you happened to "Poke" fun at Chinese military too ?

For my personal experience, hardly anybody doing that.

Even for a, your so called Kid, when i ask some questions, i was being

replied in a proper manner. Thats what i call, a real professional.

But anyway you are the Boss here, what can i say.