China's Blitzkrieg on U.S. Carrier

[danger007]

China will be pretty much untouchable by 2025.

Nukes have always been the bottom line.

DF-21D and J-20 are just toys to mess around with small countries like the Philippines.

yes you are right.....

 

[amalakas]

But your knowledge demonstrating vietnam physics level




Yes, so?

What make you think that the chaff bloom is so effective in hiding the ship for so long againts modern radar? Why do you think this is a much better way to protect the ship than Phalanx?



As I said, I do not say those have the same way of works, you idiot.

I am asking you the effectiveness of the chaff compared to other kind of protection (stealth, phalanx, etc); because you said the chaff can hide the ship EFFECTIVELY therefore will make DF-21D impotent.

I bet you dont know or cannot answer?



Sorry I dont deal with a cheerleader at the moment.

of course, you have your comedy to deal with first ..................

found out what chaff bloom does yet ???

 

[Banglar Lathial]

China will be pretty much untouchable by 2025.

Nukes have always been the bottom line.

DF-21D and J-20 are just toys to mess around with small countries like the Philippines.

I would not indulge in belittling any of your neighbours, nor would I indulge in belittling China for most East Asian countries generally have decent to good relationship with us, on a diplomatic level, and the public are also usually not antagonistic to us.

A good point that you made is that thermonuclear deterrence is the 'trump card' that allows China to develop its conventional weapons like J-20 at its own pace. If China had acquired/developed 100s of squadrons of J-20s without any thermonuclear deterrence, then it is doubtful whether Chinese progress would be tolerated by the envious Western countries. Therefore, I agree with you that thermonuclear deterrence is a necessity for an independent country in a world where evil Westerners have already displayed their ugly nature.

 

[amalakas]

I would not indulge in belittling any of your neighbours, nor would I indulge in belittling China for most East Asian countries generally have decent to good relationship with us, on a diplomatic level, and the public are also usually not antagonistic to us.

A good point that you made is that thermonuclear deterrence is the 'trump card' that allows China to develop its conventional weapons like J-20 at its own pace. If China had acquired/developed 100s of squadrons of J-20s without any thermonuclear deterrence, then it is doubtful whether Chinese progress would be tolerated by the envious Western countries. Therefore, I agree with you that thermonuclear deterrence is a necessity for an independent country in a world where evil Westerners have already displayed their ugly nature.

There is nothing envious or otherwise here. The are no evil westerners or easterners. It is comments like that that make me think most people in this forum are ignorant of the reality.

There are no nation friendships, there are only national interests.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

There is nothing envious or otherwise here. The are no evil westerners or easterners. It is comments like that that make me think most people in this forum are ignorant of the reality.

There are no nation friendships, there are only national interests.

There are evil Westerners, this is an easily verifiable fact that all members and non-members can easily attest to. Ask the Vietnamese what they suffered at the hands of Americans and French. Ask the Afghans, Iraqis, and others what they have suffered at the hands of Americans? Ask the Indians what they suffered at the hands of Brits? Ask the Natives of Australia and America what they suffered at the hands of Europeans (there may be few of them left)? Ask almost all of Africa how they suffered at the hands of Europe?

This is the undeniable truth. All around the world people would admit that West is evil. The rest of the world may not agree on how to go about dealing with the West, but they all agree, that Western history proves its evil nature.

 

[amalakas]

There are evil Westerners, this is an easily verifiable fact that all members and non-members can easily attest to. Ask the Vietnamese what they suffered at the hands of Americans and French. Ask the Afghans, Iraqis, and others what they have suffered at the hands of Americans? Ask the Indians what they suffered at the hands of Brits? Ask the Natives of Australia and America what they suffered at the hands of Europeans (there may be few of them left)? Ask almost all of Africa how they suffered at the hands of Europe?

This is the undeniable truth. All around the world people would admit that West is evil. The rest of the world may not agree on how to go about dealing with the West, but they all agree, that Western history proves its evil nature.

Ask the tibetans what they have suffered at the hands of the Chinese, the Chinese at the hands of the Japanese. The Greeks at the hands of the Germans. The Americans at the hands of the English. The Rwanda genocide in which Hutu killed almost a million Tutsis. The whoever at the hands of the whoever.

It is called national interests. The guy with the upper hand will exploit the guy under them. It is a fact of life.

There are again no evil westerners or easterners, your comment only supports my argument.

 

[Luffy 500]

China will soon have a dozen AC groups with the falling yankis selling some of theirs. A fast depleted US in military fire power will ultimately have to bow down to China if they don't want to end up like Meji Japan. In the future US can only prosper by giving herself to china.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Let us go back to the original discussion. How to sink USA's aircraft carriers? How many tonnes of explosives do you think would be sufficient? Would you attack with a salvo of DF-21D ballistic missiles alone? Would you want to throw in a mix of anti ship cruise misiles to confuse and overwhelm their defensive measures?

 

[amalakas]

Let us go back to the original discussion. How to sink USA's aircraft carriers? How many tonnes of explosives do you think would be sufficient? Would you attack with a salvo of DF-21D ballistic missiles alone? Would you want to throw in a mix of anti ship cruise misiles to confuse and overwhelm their defensive measures?

why? according to the chinese members in here, there are NO defensive measures and the missiles are dead accurate

 

[gambit]

But your knowledge demonstrating vietnam physics level.

I work with real physics. The Chinese engineers who built the bullet train, the rockets, the J-20 and other Chinese achievements also works with real physics. It is the Chinese members here who works with 'Chinese physics'. And YOU apparently works with 'Indonesian physics'.

Yes, so?

Then what is a 'chaff bloom'?

What make you think that the chaff bloom is so effective in hiding the ship for so long againts modern radar?

Chaff have been used since WW II, from ships to aircrafts. Even the F-22 have chaff.

Why do you think this is a much better way to protect the ship than Phalanx?

This is stupid and it shows your stupidity. The Phalanx is a gun. Chaff is a passive defense. Chaff is a distraction tactic while the gun is an offensive measure against an attacker, be he an aircraft or a missile.

As I said, I do not say those have the same way of works, you idiot.

I am asking you the effectiveness of the chaff compared to other kind of protection (stealth, phalanx, etc); because you said the chaff can hide the ship EFFECTIVELY therefore will make DF-21D impotent.

I bet you dont know or cannot answer?

I know the answer because I used to work with this stuff and therefore I know how to search for supporting sources...

Anti-Ship Missile Defense System & Decoys | Defense Update

The rocket creates a ship size decoy at a range of 14 kilometers from the ship.

The BT-4 short range rockets generate huge targets, many thousands of square meters in size, almost instantaneously.

A computerized chaff dispenser can create a distraction/seduction RCS of ship size to hundreds to thousands of square kms, effectively blinding any radar sensor.

This post by you...

I am not asking if EM shield will work like stealth works, again you are demonstrating idiocy and poor reading comprehension problem

I am asking you: how effective and reliable the chaff bloom is, against modern radar?

Since you claim that: under that EM umbrella, the ship is effectively hidden from EM view.

This is more superb and effective than Stealth Technology to hide the object from enemy's weapon guided by radar! also more effective than Phalanx to protect the ship from missile, regardless how different they work!

...Means you do not know basic radar detection and therefore not a clue on how to counter it.

Chaff is about creating an RCS that is much larger than yourself.

Being low radar observable or 'stealth' is about MINIMIZING your own RCS.

Either method is about distracting the seeking radar towards a larger EM target. Your post mean you have a false understanding of both because it demands and either/or situation. That is not correct. Chaff and 'stealth' are for different tactics. The F-22 is 'stealth' but also can dispense chaff. That does not mean 'stealth' is a worthless idea.

But of course, since you operate on 'Indonesian physics' you would not understand ANYTHING I said.

Post 348...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/54955-chinas-blitzkrieg-u-s-carrier-24.html#post3303124

...Is nothing new from me and to many here but no one ever challenged me on it. Why? Because they understood it. On the other hand, YOU are the first one to challenge me on it. That make you the stupidest person on this board.

 

[Sasquatch]

Stick to the topic it's gotten way off otherwise you will get an infraction.

 

[amalakas]

I work with real physics. The Chinese engineers who built the bullet train, the rockets, the J-20 and other Chinese achievements also works with real physics. It is the Chinese members here who works with 'Chinese physics'. And YOU apparently works with 'Indonesian physics'.


Then what is a 'chaff bloom'?


Chaff have been used since WW II, from ships to aircrafts. Even the F-22 have chaff.


This is stupid and it shows your stupidity. The Phalanx is a gun. Chaff is a passive defense. Chaff is a distraction tactic while the gun is an offensive measure against an attacker, be he an aircraft or a missile.


I know the answer because I used to work with this stuff and therefore I know how to search for supporting sources...

Anti-Ship Missile Defense System & Decoys | Defense Update

A computerized chaff dispenser can create a distraction/seduction RCS of ship size to hundreds to thousands of square kms, effectively blinding any radar sensor.

This post by you...


...Means you do not know basic radar detection and therefore not a clue on how to counter it.

Chaff is about creating an RCS that is much larger than yourself.

Being low radar observable or 'stealth' is about MINIMIZING your own RCS.

Either method is about distracting the seeking radar towards a larger EM target. Your post mean you have a false understanding of both because it demands and either/or situation. That is not correct. Chaff and 'stealth' are for different tactics. The F-22 is 'stealth' but also can dispense chaff. That does not mean 'stealth' is a worthless idea.

But of course, since you operate on 'Indonesian physics' you would not understand ANYTHING I said.

Post 348...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/54955-chinas-blitzkrieg-u-s-carrier-24.html#post3303124

...Is nothing new from me and to many here but no one ever challenged me on it. Why? Because they understood it. On the other hand, YOU are the first one to challenge me on it. That make you the stupidest person on this board.

The main problem with this guys is that they think the Chinese scientists have all of a sudden invented the wheel and the fire at the same time!

It is as if all other world navies have never sailed a ship before. It is as if no other country has ever flown a fighter plane before, it is as if no other country has ever looked at a missile before.

I wrote a long time ago on this forum that it is best not to dismiss the established in favour of the unproven.

China's Blitzkrieg on U.S. Carrier! ... I had a heated debate a while ago with Gambit over the difficulties of locating a carrier in sea.

I can still say that during my service the HAF found and came within visual distance of a US carrier during joined exercises,
There is however a huge difference, the Aegean is not the pacific ocean, there is over a million square miles, maybe more of sea around China. And one has to keep track of a a few hectares of flattop ! And then launch a missile at it ! .............right ....

It is a bubble shuttering truth, but needs to be said.

You do realise that there exists the capability to empower a vessel to have a similar radar signature as another.

You so realise that in order to beat this weapon even if half credible, simple decoys costing a few thousands of dollars can render it useless.

The only way for this weapon to have been even a shadow of a threat, would be for it to be satellite guided to the meter, and for that to happen, China should have over 100 dedicated satellites for that. And there are simply not enough available orbits for that I think....

 

[ptldM3]

If the US ever f**ks with us again, we will kick their arse just like we did in the Korean war. PLA is undefeated in military warfare. We kicked the Japs out of china, kicked the KMT out, humiliated the US in Korean war, made a complete mockery of India in 1962, smacked the soviet union in the border conflict, took our islands back by smashing Vietnam, stopped the Vietnamese aggression in 1979.

PLA is undefeated in military warfare. And that was before any economic reforms or military modernization.

If the United States or any other aggressive regime crosses the red line, we will impose maximum possible punishment.

Don't kid yourself, Chinese soldiers ambushed Russian borderguards, some of which were murdered in cold blood. Russia beat back Chinese troops on Damansky Island and for good measures bombarded Chinese troop formations on Chinese soil. The result was that the Soviet Union still controlled Damansky Island (military failure by China). Moreover, China never attempted something so wreckless again.

And you didn't stop Vietnam in 1979. China failed to stop Vietnam from occupying Cambodia, thus they failed militarily.

And China did not defeat Japan alone, the Soviets smashed a Japanese army numbering over 1.2 million men.

 

[j20blackdragon]

There is however a huge difference, the Aegean is not the pacific ocean, there is over a million square miles, maybe more of sea around China. And one has to keep track of a a few hectares of flattop ! And then launch a missile at it ! .............right ....

It is a bubble shuttering truth, but needs to be said.

Nope.

OTH radar is keeping track of the carrier.

And a large amount of J-20s are also there to provide more accurate targeting information.

 

[j20blackdragon]

A combination of satellites, OTH radar, ships, and Chinese Global Hawk will be keeping track of your carrier even before the shooting war has started.

We know exactly where you are.