China trounces U.S. in AI research output and quality

[beijingwalker]

U.S. Universities Fall Further Behind China In Production Of STEM PhDs

Chinese universities have now surpassed U.S. institutions in the production of STEM PhDs, and based on current trends, the gap will only grow wider in the years to come.

www.forbes.com

 

[kankan326]

Sure, school in the US put more effort to teach international student than local student. I believe you on this.

The problem for STEM graduate is, as the Census Bureau laid out, more people are willing to hire overseas student because it was bounded to by their visa filter, something like 81% of international students studied STEM ended up working in STEM field in the US, compared to 67% of native born, who were not required or bounded by visa filter.

That mean international students have more incentives to get a STEM job if they want to stay in the US as that is the only way as they are bounded by visa filter, which mean they are prone to offer sub-standard working condition we heard so much about on international worker on H1B visa, it's less likely for a native student to do so, if they have better opportunities outside STEM.

I wonder what kind of jobs native STEM graduates would do if so. Well paid occupations like lawyer, doctor, financial staff are already filled by native graduates majored in them. If they are really good in quality, they would be hired anyway. Salary is not a problem at all. Let's face the reality. They can not compete with overseas students in both cost and quality.

I am talking about the paradox regarding foreign workers and global talent. It's not that China decides what to do.

Your initial view is that the American education system is a failure because American students cannot compete with foreigners.

China also adjusted its policy. China is willing to offer green cards to talented foreigners. China has a green card rating system. Those who are competitive in STEM get high score. Those who teach languages get low score.

 

[jhungary]

I wonder what kind of jobs native STEM graduates would do if so. Well paid occupations like lawyer, doctor, financial staff are already filled by native graduates majored in them. If they are really good in quality, they would be hired anyway. Salary is not a problem at all. Let's face the reality. They can not compete with overseas students in both cost and quality.

cost yes, quality, no.

As I said, unless you are claiming the same school and same system have different approach to International Students and Native. Quality from a particular school or program should be the same, I mean I was taught the same exact syllabus than the International Student when I was studying in UC Boulder. I have the same passing marks and grading criteria than anyone else, be it native or international.

The problem is, if you have the same qualifications and same grade coming from the same institute and it's $20,000 or so a year cheaper to hire an international student than local, you will go with the international student every day.

Most people do interdisciplinary stuff, while some continue with their study, those are things that won't really happened to international students.

 

[kankan326]

cost yes, quality, no.

As I said, unless you are claiming the same school and same system have different approach to International Students and Native. Quality from a particular school or program should be the same, I mean I was taught the same exact syllabus than the International Student when I was studying in UC Boulder. I have the same passing marks and grading criteria than anyone else, be it native or international.

The problem is, if you have the same qualifications and same grade coming from the same institute and it's $20,000 or so a year cheaper to hire an international student than local, you will go with the international student every day.

Most people do interdisciplinary stuff, while some continue with their study, those are things that won't really happened to international students.

I'm not saying all US native students perform bad in their colleges. US has about 400 million population. There must be many extremely talented native students. Who can compete with international students. But their performance can not reflect the real quality of US education because they do not rely on education too much. And it can not defy the fact overall native students are less competitive. Cost is just a pretext.

 

[jhungary]

I'm not saying all US native students perform bad in their colleges. US has about 400 million population. There must be many extremely talented native students. Who can compete with international students. But their performance can not reflect the real quality of US education because they do not rely on education too much. And it can not defy the fact overall native students are less competitive. Cost is just a pretext.

View attachment 913588

All those are "American" you know that, right?

Again, there are different people in different field of study, if I post a Political Science Club you will most likely see White people dominate the club, or if I am posting a human services team, it will most likely be dominated by black people.

Again, you are focusing on one aspect in college and then concluded because that part is dominated by non-native born people, then American Education system is failing. I don't know if you went to college or whatever, but if you think college is just about STEM, and nothing else is important, that probably why Chinese Education standard is sub-par to World Standard.

On the other hand, people major on their college does not mean they are going to work in the field, I majored in Political Science, did you see me working on related field??

 

[jhungary]

It is an interesting fact that US companies benefit from hiring employees and engineers from third world countries. But the US economy gets very little benefit from it

I mean local employees have higher salary than employees hired from india, africa... but they will use the money they receive to spend in the country. As for foreign employees, part or in many cases all of the money they receive will be sent back to their home country.

Short benefit, long pain.

It depends.

Those people would have to spend money in the US, I mean living expense, travel and so on, what left and how they want to spend it is their business.

On the other hand, the company that employ them gain from these people output, and they then put money back into the society by tax, contribution and so on.

 

[kankan326]

All those are "American" you know that, right?

Again, there are different people in different field of study, if I post a Political Science Club you will most likely see White people dominate the club, or if I am posting a human services team, it will most likely be dominated by black people.

Again, you are focusing on one aspect in college and then concluded because that part is dominated by non-native born people, then American Education system is failing. I don't know if you went to college or whatever, but if you think college is just about STEM, and nothing else is important, that probably why Chinese Education standard is sub-par to World Standard.

On the other hand, people major on their college does not mean they are going to work in the field, I majored in Political Science, did you see me working on related field??

When Soviet Union collapsed, its scientists, engineers were grabbed by other countries. No country was interested in Russian artists, lawyers etc. Same scenario happened when Germany was about to lose the ww2.

I heard US government has a plan to prohibit Chinese students coming to US to learn STEM but welcome Chinese to learn US liberal arts.

It is an interesting fact that US companies benefit from hiring employees and engineers from third world countries. But the US economy gets very little benefit from it

I mean local employees have higher salary than employees hired from india, africa... but they will use the money they receive to spend in the country. As for foreign employees, part or in many cases all of the money they receive will be sent back to their home country.

Short benefit, long pain.

The loss is neglectable compared to what US gained.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Currently, there are many CEOs and key leaders at American corporations who are foreigners.

Foreigners hold a lot of property, they have a very high social status in American society. Not only in the fields of economy, technology, science, education, they began to influence politics, military and culture...

I think the US is shooting itself in the foot with this model. The interesting thing is that many people still think that the US way is absolutely right.

The US way is absolutely right. That's the reason why the US dominate the scientific field for centuries.

Comparing China to the US scientific achievements isn't even a fair comparison. The US outshine and outperform China in every metric. That means whatever the US doing is absolutely correct. Heck most of Chinese upper echelons keep sending their kids to study in the US even Xi Jinping.

 

[beijingwalker]

The US outshine and outperform China in every metric. That means whatever the US doing is absolutely correct. Heck most of Chinese upper echelons keep sending their kids to study in the US even Xi Jinping.

China beating US in key innovation metric, evolving from ‘imitator’: report

Global market share of America’s firms and its allies at risk ‘in most high-value-added, advanced industries’ vital to prosperity and security.

www.scmp.com

 

[SaadH]

Fools who think ChatGBT is the pinnacle and the leading edge of AI research and technology need to have their heads examined.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

China beating US in key innovation metric, evolving from ‘imitator’: report

Global market share of America’s firms and its allies at risk ‘in most high-value-added, advanced industries’ vital to prosperity and security.

www.scmp.com

Congrats now get back in the factory.

Meanwhile at Northrop-Grumman

B-21 Raider

B-21 Raider, the future of long-range strike, will be capable of penetrating the toughest defenses to deliver precision strikes anywhere in the world.

www.northropgrumman.com

 

[beijingwalker]

Congrats now get back in the factory.

Meanwhile at Northrop-Grumman

B-21 Raider

B-21 Raider, the future of long-range strike, will be capable of penetrating the toughest defenses to deliver precision strikes anywhere in the world.

www.northropgrumman.com

I just corrected your obvious mistake you instantly went off topic, lol, what a bad troll.

 

[casual]

Most AI related research are either Military usage or Dual use, you will need to have Security Clearence

Like this

https://www.artificialintelligencej...elligence-researcher-with-security-clearance/



You can't get them if you are Chinese Citizen with a H1B.

I have looked up 5 AI researcher job and all 5 needed government clearance.


The problem I see is that for now, Most field of research in China would require to re-invent the wheel, when the west stopped sharing their secret with the Chinese, they are going to need to devote some time to level the playing field first.

That's a side problem for China refusing to let foreigner work in sensitive technology. I mean you will see Russian-American or Chinese-American who works in sensitive field in the US, but you probably won't see American-Chinese or British-Chinese working on Chinese research in large quantity.

haha the fuk is this. No wonder I've never heard of MITRE. I check tech blogs, they got nothing. I check frameworks, they got nothing. From the job description it seems like they probably just run a couple of tensorflow pipelines and call it "AI". Just look at this joke of a salary range https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Mitre-2/...st to $24.00 per hour for Order Administrator. They aren't going be able to hire anyone with that.

 

[jhungary]

haha the fuk is this. No wonder I've never heard of MITRE. I check tech blogs, they got nothing. I check frameworks, they got nothing. From the job description it seems like they probably just run a couple of tensorflow pipelines and call it "AI". Just look at this joke of a salary range https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Mitre-2/salaries#:~:text=How much does MITRE in the United States,Analyst to $24.00 per hour for Order Administrator. They aren't going be able to hire anyone with that.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. It is what it is. And MITER is big enough to have a Wikipedia Website listed with 8000+ employee with revenue about 2 billions dollars.

Mitre Corporation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you have not heard the FUK of it, that probably be your business.

 

[casual]

Well, I don't know what to tell you. It is what it is. And MITER is big enough to have a Wikipedia Website listed with 8000+ employee with revenue about 2 billions dollars.

Mitre Corporation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If you have not heard the FUK of it, that probably be your business.

that's just the thing, 8k employees and 2 billion dollars and they have jack shit to show for it. It just shows you how backwards and useless government contractors are.

I looked their job posting and services. It looks like their tech is still stuck in 2008. With the salary they are willing to pay, this company is probably full of old dinosaurs who can't keep up with the latest tech and are just looking for a place to retire.