China still 30 years from being a top manufacturer: Ex-minister

[Leishangthem]

No, I don’t like stuck up idiots. Every country has a place on the world and they are important in their own right. But when you start pissing on everyone else that’s when you need to be taught down a bit

2- concept of GDP is not measured in hours annual hours . It’s measured on total spending

3- US doesn’t produce because of Moore law. So look it up.
The concept in general is processing power doubles every 2 years. And if it’s cheaper for someone else to make the said product I can divert the saved labor on something else

4- it is true China has the most patent applications filed but how many of them were granted? 9%. Granted patent are what matters because they validate if what you’re presented is the breakthrough technology
Of the total patents filed US were granted 60%

2- concept of GDP is not measured in hours annual hours . It’s measured on total spending

....I was talking about the "productivity " you mentioned ,which is measured by comparing annual gdp against working hour of the native populace.

3- US doesn’t produce because of Moore law. So look it up.

Sure US shifted production for much of its consumption abroad infavor of cheaper labor,but US was never the leader in industrial design like china,Japan and korea either. US simply never had the means or technology to manufacture all those which china has the capability to do so now.No nation can out manufacture china.
What US did was create massive wealth from the profit utilizing cheap labor and production prowess of china and than used that to fund some of the most vital and polarizing tech ,US 's tech isn't an all-encompassing type of china,it's more streamlined toward fewer core & high end tech sectore. US was left flabbergasted when huawei took the lead in 5G and US is also weary of China's advancement in AI. In semiconductor China mainly needs to crack the lithography hurdle that Dutch firm ASML(not US) has a monopoly on,if China overcomes that hurdle,there's nothing much US can do to prevent china from semi conductor advancement and possibly become a global leader.In semiconductor field,China is trying to achieve alone what is generally done by a concert of a dozen nation.

4- it is true China has the most patent applications filed but how many of them were granted? 9%. Granted patent are what matters because they validate if what you’re presented is the breakthrough technology
Of the total patents filed US were granted 60%

Still China leads overall though ,even if China is granted less Patents by America and EU .

 

[Mk-313]

....I was talking about the "productivity " you mentioned ,which is measured by comparing annual gdp against working hour of the native populace.


Sure US shifted production for much of its consumption abroad for cheaper labor,but US was never the leader in industrial design like china,Japan and korea either. US simply never had the means or technology to manufacture all those which china has the capability to do so.No nation can outmanufacture china.
What US did was create massive wealth from the profit utilizing cheap labor and production prowess of china and than used that to fund some of the most vital and polarizing tech ,US 's tech isn't an all-encompassing type of china,it's more streamlined toward fewer core & high end tech sectore. US was left flabbergasted when huawei took the lead in 5G and US is also weary of China's advancement in AI. In semiconductor China mainly needs to crack the lithography hurdle that Dutch firm ASML(not US) has a monopoly on,if China overcomes that hurdle,there's nothing much US can do to prevent china from semi conductor advancement and possibly become a global leader.In semiconductor field,China is trying to achieve alone what is generally done by a concert of a dozen nation.


Still China leads overall though ,even if China is granted less Patents by America and EU .

1-productivity is also measured in spending/population . Not “hours”

2- and that’s also true no nation can outmatch them because they are 20% of the world population. US and European Union combined is half the population of China. So they will always have more labor.
and 2 China is the juggernaut it is today because of US shifting jobs there for cheaper labor

3- US was an industrial engine up until WW2 even back in the British empire days US industrial revolution is what made it a higher gdp than the British empire. At that time Japan and korea still only worked with wood. Japan had wooden homes and their aircrafts carriers were made of mostly wood. After globalization when US realized it’s cheaper to be made outside is when it stopped being and industrial engine


3- and that’s fine I never made the point US had higher I made the point US has a 60% granted rate based 9% rate. And that arguement stands and that’s where one element of productivity you’re talking about comes to play a 9% success rate vs 60% tells you who’s is more productive

 

[Leishangthem]

1-productivity is also measured in spending/population . Not “hours”

2- and that’s also true no nation can outmatch them because they are 20% of the world population. US and European Union combined is half the population of US . So they will always have more labor.
and 2 China is the juggernaut it is today because of US shifting jobs there for cheaper labor


3- and that’s fine I never made the point US had higher I made the point US has a 60% granted rate based 9% rate. And that arguement stands and that’s where one element of productivity comes to play a 9% success rate vs 60% tells you who’s is more productive

1-productivity is also measured in spending/population . Not “hours”

But the formulae for calculating productivity takes annual GDP and working hours into account.

2- and that’s also true no nation can outmatch them because they are 20% of the world population. US and European Union combined is half the population of US . So they will always have more labor.
and 2 China is the juggernaut it is today because of US shifting jobs there for cheaper labor

US aided in china's economical boom but US didn't do a charity,it increased its wealth multifolds through that,US made most profit,the scale,deep pockets and profitability that US firms enjoys today wouldn't have been possible without chinese manufacturing.
And if the population was all that mattered than India should have been a manufacturing leader .
It's the Chinese human resource that sets it apart,China don't need world's 20% population to compete with US ,once developed, China can compete with US while having an even smaller population. Chinese human resource hasn't been utilized yet.Despite your claim, in ground reality ,average chinese is way more productive than Americans. Americans are slower and lazier in things they do.Your patent case stems from the refinement of American institutions and the leg up in research ,America has the luxury of poaching world's best talents ( mostly from china) China is still the new kid in the block.
It's easy to seem productive when you have institutional leadership in a hegemonic way and you can make money with little effort.

 

[Mk-313]

But the formulae for calculating productivity takes annual GDP and working hours into account.

US aided in china's economical boom but US didn't do a charity,it increased its wealth multifolds through that,US made most profit,the scale,deep pockets and profitability that US firms enjoys today wouldn't have been possible without chinese manufacturing.
And if the population was all that mattered than India should have been a manufacturing leader .
It's the Chinese human resource that sets it apart,China don't need world's 20% population to compete with US ,once developed, China can compete with US while having an even smaller population. Chinese human resource hasn't been utilized yet.Despite your claim, in ground reality ,average chinese is way more productive than Americans. Americans are slower and lazier in things they do.Your patent case stems from the refinement of American institutions and the leg up in research ,American has the luxury of poaching world's best talents ( mostly from china) China is still the new kid in the block.
It's easy to seem productive when you have institutional leadership in a hegemonic way and you can make money with little effort.

population does matter. That’s the basis of gdp and growth. Which basically means how many people are participating in the economy and how much are they making while they participate. If chinas population was cut down to exact same their gdp would be 2-3 trillion. Do population plays a huge role

you seem to have a misunderstanding of productivity really means. It doesn’t mean who works harder more. It means how much whatever u do brings in economic activity to you.

a construction worker works way harder than a singer. However a singer may sing for an hour in a concert and rake in more money Than the construction workers entire annual salary: what the singer did is more productive

3- in impartial review we don’t bias the model what one country uses over another. By that measure China has the luxury of using all of the country’s asset and do whatever . And they have the luxury to not care about privacy, freedom of expression which the US does

but US is a capitalistic economy. In that model whoever has the talent will secure the most money hence why the worlds brightest come to US. And the irony is people assume we are “luring” them when in reality if your “brightest” can be lured they are not the brightest. They did their cost analysis thinking planning and then decided it’s worth the risk to come to the US

 

[kankan326]

Who made America great? Hitler. This stupid man ruined Germany as well as other European countries. Before ww2, Europe was the world science center. US was in a positoin just like today's China in science sector

After ww2, most world talents and money were voluntarily or involuntarily moved to US. Which created America miracle

 

[Zsari]

Glad you all take the bait! Go ahead and believe an ex minster who claim China manufacturing is 30 years behind western. Trump and Biden are not dumb idiots like some. There is reason why they insist to fight trade war with China.

I really wish Trump and BIden can trust such article about China 30 years behind them in manufacturing.

Stop ruin the work of 战忽局。

 

[Smarana Mitra]

the point is some Chinese were claiming it is a innovation economy

when clearly its not

Making glowing face cream is not a good innovation which reasonable people need. China is indeed a very big and advanced manufacturing country. China has manufactured everything excluding the latest generation semiconductor. China currently has 28nm lithography and is almost at the verge of 22nm. Historically speaking, 22nm was the top technology till 2015 when it was supplanted by 10nm and recently by 7nm. So, practically speaking, China is just about 6-7 years away from the latest semiconductor technology. Also, 7nm appears to be the theoretical limit which is almost impossible to cross. So, USA technology will stay at 7nm while China will advance from 22nm to 7nm in next 6-7 years

Sunway Bluelight and Sunway Taihulight are run using domestic SW06010 processors and Sunway RaiseOS.

I am not sure if you have any manufacturing experience, but manufacturing in China is done heavily through ODMs (original design manufacturers) where the foreign customer lays out specifications - not designs, but specifications - and pays the ODM to come up with an actual design that meets those specifications.

This is common because there are alot of details in PCBs (like pullup resistors, capacitors, power management circuits, interconnects, etc) that a product design company doesn't really want to care about but must be done 100% right. For example, Apple cares *much more* about whether the screen works and whether customers like the feel of a capacitive OLED screen, than about how exactly to layout a 24 bit RGB parallel interconnect to make it work.

Chinese ODMs will typically charge a higher price than many Southeast Asian OEMs which only do assembly. They will also typically retain some form of license on the IP or, if they give a discount, keep the entire IP and basically allow the buyer to use their IP as a library on future products.

The research on the specifications is not easy - it requires deep knowledge of market trends and available components. But neither is it actually coming up with a design.

No, Apple or any of the USA technology companies don't design or give technology to China. If China already has technology developed by itself, then it is allowed to be used in the phones. But no technology flow

who has the 20% of the entire world population, yet only 9.3% of the world economy .

Who has 1.5 billion people yet is 6X less productive than US

who has the highest rate of patent application, Yet only 9% granted


Who has the most scientists in the world?? Yet need Taiwanese scientist to crack semi conductors

who is haemorrhaging their natural mineralresources to boost gdp yet USs are untapped

who is the 2nd largest economy yet gives $0 in aid

who started their vaccination early with more people to give vaccine yet still behind the US who started after the orange guy left

your govt is really good at portrayingtheir some unstoppable power.And you guys eat it up. Which is unsurprising in Cold War soviets portrayed themselves 10x higher than the US yet fell

The only legitimate thing you have going for you is your population but on par to par analysis ur way down the line

As a comparison
- US is 4% of the world population and constitute 16% of the world economy
- US has a 60% percentage of patent granted vs filed
- 4 generations ahead of you in semiconductors
- US being the biggest economy that gives $50 billion in aid
- US constitute less scientist than China. Yet created 3 vaccines that outperformed China with more scientist
- less population but significantly more universities in top 100

So first try to catch up with us then dare anyone else. And if we embargoed your junk coming to US you’re gona struggle to keep your pants on

USA rose up only by WW2 where it was the only industrial nation untouched. All other nations were burning and their industries destroyed by war which USA took advantage of by giving loans and creating debt trap. Countries like USSR lost 17% of its population which obviously slowed it down by a generation. Countries like Germany which were very advanced in technology lost and resulted in the technology being acquired by USA. Also, USA had the largest oil reserves of any country which it has been exploiting since 1859. All this combined together made USA a big economy temporarily. USA has been on the decline apidly since 2000s as the WW2 effect and oil reserves decreased. USA's current economy is only nominal caused by currency manipulation rather than actual wealth.

US took 200 years to get a total debt:gdp ratio of 245%. China took 30 years to get to a total debt:gdp ratio of 337%. You are more unstable economy than we are that’s why even your government backed enterprises are defaulting on their loan and even CCP can’t help them

USA Federal reserve started in 1914. Before that there was no concept of debt. Using internal debt is not really a big deal except manipulation of accounts within the country. USA used debt extensively to rise up from the 1930s depression. But, unlike China, USA has huge external debt which is far more dangerous.

population does matter. That’s the basis of gdp and growth. Which basically means how many people are participating in the economy and how much are they making while they participate. If chinas population was cut down to exact same their gdp would be 2-3 trillion. Do population plays a huge role

you seem to have a misunderstanding of productivity really means. It doesn’t mean who works harder more. It means how much whatever u do brings in economic activity to you.

a construction worker works way harder than a singer. However a singer may sing for an hour in a concert and rake in more money Than the construction workers entire annual salary: what the singer did is more productive

3- in impartial review we don’t bias the model what one country uses over another. By that measure China has the luxury of using all of the country’s asset and do whatever . And they have the luxury to not care about privacy, freedom of expression which the US does

but US is a capitalistic economy. In that model whoever has the talent will secure the most money hence why the worlds brightest come to US. And the irony is people assume we are “luring” them when in reality if your “brightest” can be lured they are not the brightest. They did their cost analysis thinking planning and then decided it’s worth the risk to come to the US

Productivity defined per capita is absurd. Most of the wealth is a result of natural resources. No country can become rich without natural resources either internally or through colonisation or political alliance. USA has far more land and resources like Petroleum, coal abundant other resources along with allies like Canada, Australia with other wide range of resources. Also, USA has 25% the population of China. Naturally, the ratio of natural resource per person is much higher in USA and hence productivity is also higher. But that is not a good indicator of wealth or strength but simply an indicator of low population.

 

[Surya 1]

This total hogwash,China doesn't even account for 1% of medical tourist in India,Indian tourism industry is mainly made out of bangladeshi ;mainly people from Africa,south asia and other economically backward region accounts for medical tourism revenue in India.
View attachment 740060


Indians talking about substandard in relation to china is just pure irony,In India a cardiac surgery cost like 3/4 times less than thailand but still Thailand is far more popular source of medical tourism for such procedures.India is the cheapest in medical offering in the world but none hardly bother's traveling therein for medical purpose other than the likes of bangladesh and other backward states from SAARC region.

No the question is why they come? Why Chinese smuggles medicines from India. A movie is made on that as well. A chinese having no medicine starts making medicines at home and then smuggles medicines from India.

 

[Leishangthem]

No the question is why they come? Why Chinese smuggles medicines from India. A movie is made on that as well. A chinese having no medicine starts making medicines at home and then smuggles medicines from India.

Nitpicking on very rare case of Chinese procuring cheaper cancer medicine like 5 years ago,many . Meanhwile china is making even greater breakthrough in that sphere of cancer treatment.

But again your just trolling.
You can't expect none to go to nearby neighboring nation ,few people from all over the world procures cheap meds anywhere that's available,and India making pirated cheap meds in unregulated indian market ,is nothing to be proud of and wouldn't create India as appealing medical treatment destination.India hardly even fits global standard in the sector,just the price is the factor herein. As for now, other than procuring cheap pirated drugs ,only the less affluent people from likes of bangladesh and poor african nation endorses Indian medical treatment.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

But again your just a troll.
You can't expect none to go to nearby neighboring nation ,few people from all over the world procures cheap meds anywhere that's available,and India making pirated cheap meds in unregulated indian market ,is nothing to be proud of and wouldn't create India as appealing medical treatment destination.India hardly even fits global standard in the sector,just the price is the factor herein. As for now, other than procuring cheap pirated drugs ,only the less affluent people from likes of bangladesh and poor african nation endorses Indian medical treatment.

Only fools look at price as a symbol of quality. Indian drugs are of good quality despite low price. With Jan Aushadhi Yojana, the price has come down even further

 

[Surya 1]

Nitpicking on very rare case of Chinese procuring cheaper cancer medicine like 5 years ago,many . Meanhwile china is making even greater breakthrough in that sphere of cancer treatment.

View attachment 740126

But again your just a troll.
You can't expect none to go to nearby neighboring nation ,few people from all over the world procures cheap meds anywhere that's available,and India making pirated cheap meds in unregulated indian market ,is nothing to be proud of and wouldn't create India as appealing medical treatment destination.India hardly even fits global standard in the sector,just the price is the factor herein. As for now, other than procuring cheap pirated drugs ,only the less affluent people from likes of bangladesh and poor african nation endorses Indian medical treatment.

Cancer medicines are produced in India at just a fraction of cost of that of China. Chinese medicines are like Chinese vaccine. It has no takers. Sources of China doing great is random Twits in most of the case.

 

[beijingwalker]

Chinese medicines are like Chinese vaccine. It has no takers.

This is a very tall claim, are you really serious, I take Chinese medicine at least, can you speak for me? and so far hundreds of millions of Chinese vaccines had been administered around the world, but you claim Chinese vaccines have no takers, how many are no one?

 

[Surya 1]

This is a very tall claim, are you really serious, I take Chinese medicine at least, can you speak for me?

It is a factual claim. I can produce non Indian source for that as well. But then you have to promise that you will never bluff again never indulge in such discussion.

 

[beijingwalker]

It is a factual claim. I can produce non Indian source for that as well. But then you have to promise that you will never bluff again never indulge in such discussion.

so far hundreds of millions of Chinese vaccines had been administered around the world, but you claim Chinese vaccines have no takers, how many are no one?

 

[Leishangthem]

population does matter. That’s the basis of gdp and growth. Which basically means how many people are participating in the economy and how much are they making while they participate. If chinas population was cut down to exact same their gdp would be 2-3 trillion. Do population plays a huge role

you seem to have a misunderstanding of productivity really means. It doesn’t mean who works harder more. It means how much whatever u do brings in economic activity to you.

a construction worker works way harder than a singer. However a singer may sing for an hour in a concert and rake in more money Than the construction workers entire annual salary: what the singer did is more productive

3- in impartial review we don’t bias the model what one country uses over another. By that measure China has the luxury of using all of the country’s asset and do whatever . And they have the luxury to not care about privacy, freedom of expression which the US does

but US is a capitalistic economy. In that model whoever has the talent will secure the most money hence why the worlds brightest come to US. And the irony is people assume we are “luring” them when in reality if your “brightest” can be lured they are not the brightest. They did their cost analysis thinking planning and then decided it’s worth the risk to come to the US

I think I already put forward how productivity is calculated,the process involve the use of annual GDp procured gains in relative to working hour. That's the concept of "productivity " you're referring to,but that's skewed,because population,inherent wealth and technological advancement determine the factors used for calculating productivity. It's a fancy term in figurative notion but in reality doesn't give a clear picture.

India has a population of almost similar size to China ,it's gdp is close to 3 trillion,if population was all that mattered India should have been 15 trillion nation like china.Chinese are like5 times more productive than Indian ,and that's reality.

Sadly India also don't fit in this quality bracket hence the difference in GDP

Human resources are not all equal,it's the asset more valuable than oil and minerals and east asia has plenty of those resources.US will never be more productive than CHina .

Regarding GDP ,US had a huge leg up against china in development ,and after ww2, it operated with great impunity to procure wealth by rigging the system in favour of itself and decimating any compitetors from all over the world,unlike US's easy wealth development in past century under their hegemonic influence,china procured its wealth with much more toil,no other parts of the world could have achieved what china did under the system rigged against them by US and its allies . If china was able to rise unabated without the system being rigged in US and its ally's favor,that are now trying to contain and restrict CHina's rise ,than china would have achieved much more,probably even surpassed US.

Only fools look at price as a symbol of quality. Indian drugs are of good quality despite low price. With Jan Aushadhi Yojana, the price has come down even further

I didn't say anything about Indian drugs quality,though the better variants are reserved for developed foreign nation . In the end someone has to make those drugs ,the west and much of the world wouldn't let itself get polluted to produce those drugs.

I was talking about the medical industry as a whole.