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China still 30 years from being a top manufacturer: Ex-minister

OK, fair enough.

But it does not look good for the Chinese vaccine so far.

Well Indonesia dont just rely on Sinovac and also Turkey, the main problem now is that US vaccine is halted by US and British vaccine is also halted by England and India.
 
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Yes but how effective are Chinese vaccines?

Turkey has jabbed 23 million doses of Chinese vaccine into their 80 million population since January but they have had to go into another lockdown just now in May!

Which is roughly enough for approximately for 11.5 million people out of 80 million?

Since Turkey is still placing more orders it mean the 11.5 million who are vaccinated are safe and it worked.
 
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Well Indonesia dont just rely on Sinovac and also Turkey, the main problem now is that US vaccine is halted by US and British vaccine is also halted by England and India.


It is always a bad idea to rely on one vaccine for multiple reasons.

As for AstraZeneca, US will ship 60 million doses to the 3rd world in the second half of this month if the batches pass quality tests.

BD has put in a request for some of these. Do you know if Indonesia has done the same?

UK real-world data shows that a single dose reduces chance of hospitalisation by 95% and death by nearly 100% after 3 weeks. The other good thing about it is that the 2nd dose can be given 12 weeks later and the high immunity from 1st dose lasts till at least 12 weeks.
 
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Well Indonesia dont just rely on Sinovac and also Turkey, the main problem now is that US vaccine is halted by US and British vaccine is also halted by England and India.

There is not enough vaccines for everybody anyway and some people do prefers Pfizer, AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson.
 
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It is always a bad idea to rely on one vaccine for multiple reasons.

As for AstraZeneca, US will ship 60 million doses to the 3rd world in the second half of this month if the batches pass quality tests.

BD has put in a request for some of these. Do you know if Indonesia has done the same?

UK darta shows that a single dose reduces chance of hospitalisation by 95% and death by nearly 100% after 3 weeks. The other good thing about is that the 2nd dose can be given 12 weeks later and the high immunity from 1st dose lasts till at least 12 weeks.

Yup we got that Astra Zeneca for second bach delivery already, and look like it is coming from US where they havent used that vaccine yet, while India is still halting it
 
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A detail study released by Hungary recently shown that both Russian and Chinese vaccines do worked pretty well.
 
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Population wise is the imporrant

Turkey locked down at 300 deaths. Infections do not matter as much if not too many people are dying.

USA has 4-5 times the population and so that would be 1200-1500 deaths, which would be unacceptable to Biden.

Even now the deaths are slowing coming down and that is mainly due to near 100% protection from death of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.


Look I am trying to be fair here - the Chinese vaccine is inferior to those available from the West and even the Russian Sputnik vaccine is likely to be much better. It is not a bad vaccine but unlike others do not assume it will give almost 100% protection from death.

let's look at some real world data.

Chile's real world Sinovac data shows 89% reduction in hospitalization and 80% reduction in death.

Real world Pfizer data in Israel shows 90% reduction in hospitalization and 85% reduction in death.

I'd say the difference is not that big. Chile's lockdown has more to do with them starting vaccinations later, easing restrictions earlier, and different demographics. Israel had a huge wave and a lockdown in the middle of their vaccination drive, doesn't mean Pfizer's trash.

in addition I'd like to ask that you distinguish between the different Chinese vaccines. There's 3 available, each from different companies using different technologies and with different efficacies.

Anyhow, there's some more real world data from Hungary using Sinopharm.

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China always try to copy. So once any product comes in market, China copies it so it will always remain a laggard in innovation and and top quality manufacturing. However, China had one advantage and that was cost leadership because of large scale manufacturing and cheap labor cost. Because of aging population, emergence of other nations as a cheap manufacturers and Chinese government's policies to make unnecessary enemy has tilted the balance opposing China. The other option for China is to enter into high tech goods but that requires a lots of innovation, research and development where China is seriously behind. So China is now left with no advantage which it used to enjoy for couple of years. China is becoming a very old country now with average age of 19 to 20 years higher than subcontinent countries. China doesn't seem to be in a position of leadership in manufacturing sector in years to come.
 
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let's look at some real world data.

Chile's real world Sinovac data shows 89% reduction in hospitalization and 80% reduction in death.

Real world Pfizer data in Israel shows 90% reduction in hospitalization and 85% reduction in death.

I'd say the difference is not that big. Chile's lockdown has more to do with them starting vaccinations later, easing restrictions earlier, and different demographics.

in addition I'd like to ask that you distinguish between the different Chinese vaccines. There's 3 available, each from different companies using different technologies and with different efficacies.

Anyhow, there's some more real world data from Hungary using Sinopharm.

proxy-image




I agree with Chile as they opened too quickly in their vaccination programme.

With Turkey I don't think you can say the same.

I think the main problem with Sinopharm is that effectiveness from one-shot is next to nothing(Chilean real-world data) and that two shots are required for good protection.
 
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China always try to copy. So once any product comes in market, China copies it so it will always remain a laggard in innovation and and top quality manufacturing. However, China had one advantage and that was cost leadership because of large scale manufacturing and cheap labor cost. Because of aging population, emergence of other nations as a cheap manufacturers and Chinese government's policies to make unnecessary enemy has tilted the balance opposing China. The other option for China is to enter into high tech goods but that requires a lots of innovation, research and development where China is seriously behind. So China is now left with no advantage which it used to enjoy for couple of years. China is becoming a very old country now with average age of 19 to 20 years higher than subcontinent countries. China doesn't seem to be in a position of leadership in manufacturing sector in years to come.

this is why COVID is punishing India.
 
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World Insights: Chinese-made vaccine increasingly trusted in Hungary amid third wave of pandemic
Source: Xinhua| 2021-03-06 11:50:12|Editor: huaxia

BUDAPEST, March 5 (Xinhua) -- China's Sinopharm COVID-19 vaccine is becoming more and more recognized amongst professionals and civilians alike as the third wave of pandemic hit the country.
"I trust the Chinese vaccine," elderly Gabor Magyari told Xinhua on Friday, a few moments after having received the jab of the Sinopharm vaccine. "I don't care if the vaccine is Chinese or Russian or American. As long as it is good for my health, I am happy to get it."
Agnes Kissne Dudas, a middle-aged woman, told Xinhua that she "feels well after having been inoculated."
"I received the Chinese vaccine, it is what was available. The important thing is to get inoculated," she said.
These Hungarians expressed their opinions at the place of Csaba Denes, a family doctor who told Xinhua that the number of people to be inoculated on Friday almost twice as many as expected.
"The issue of trust is important. If the doctor says it is a good, reliable product, it means that people will be open to getting the shot," the doctor said. "Today, for instance, we will administer some 90 vaccines here, instead of the 45 we were expecting."
Amid the third wave of the pandemic, people's willingness to get vaccinated has increased a lot, said the doctor. "Because as the daily infections number are elevated, and more people get admitted to hospitals, to ICUs and ventilators, it has an effect on the willingness to get inoculated."
The Hungarian government is boosting its vaccination program with Russian and Chinese vaccines.
With access to vaccines from five producers, namely Sinopharm, Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca and Sputnik V, Hungary, the first European Union member state to buy and authorize the use of Chinese vaccines started to administer the Sinopharm vaccine on Feb. 24.
"The Sinopharm vaccine is unique among the vaccines authorized in Hungary, as this is the only inactivated vaccine which is using the whole virus with all the proteins of the coronavirus itself," Miklos Rusvai, a professor and virologist of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences, told Xinhua.
"It is a very good and very effective immunization method, the use of the inactivated vaccines is very safe," said the expert, adding that safety is the number one expectation of the public.
"So I think that the inactivated vaccines are very safe and very potent. I think this vaccine will play a significant role in the fight against the epidemic." Rusvai added.
Hungary on Friday registered 6,369 new COVID-19 cases over the past 24 hours, raising the national total to 452,547, according to official data.
Meanwhile, 143 more people have died from the disease, taking the national death toll to 15,619 with 331,557 recoveries.
Currently, 6,867 patients are being treated in hospitals, including 677 on ventilators, figures from the government's coronavirus information website showed.
As of Friday, 862,953 people have received at least the first shot of a vaccine, while 279,727 have had two jabs, according to the website. Enditem
 
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I agree with Chile as they opened quickly.

With Turkey I don't think you can say the same.

I think the main problem with Sinopharm is that effectiveness from one-shot is next to nothing(Chilean real-world data) and that two shots are required for good protection.

Chile doesn't use Sinopharm.
 
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Chile doesn't use Sinopharm.


Ok, I maybe am getting confused as the names of the Chinese vaccines all seem to start with Sino.

Anyway I think we can agree that no matter how good the vaccine you are using do not start opening until at least all those at risk(65+, underling health conditions and fat) have recieved the proper protection from vaccines.
 
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Ok, I maybe am getting confused as the names of the Chinese vaccines all seem to start with Sino.

Anyway I think we can agree that no matter how good the vaccine you are using do not start opening until at least all those at risk(65+, underling health conditions and fat) have recieved the proper protection from vaccines.

More data is coming out soon from the WHO. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202105/1222643.shtml

One thing to note is that the Pfizer-Biontech vaccine is also developed in part by Fosun Pharmcaeuticals in Shanghai. They're working on the Chinese variant which is in the approval process.

I believe the domestic Chinese vaccination drive is mostly Sinopharm, and Sinopharm is exported less than Sinovac.

And China gets away with it though 21 million mobiles went inactive in covid time.

China has more mobile phones than there are people in total. It isn't like India where you spend your life savings on a phone.
 
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