China still 30 years from being a top manufacturer: Ex-minister

[Mk-313]

Per capita wise US is not the highest in the world either, many countries and regions can beat US hands down in the world inluding Chinese Macau, so you don't have to get so worked up. China just developed in recent years and we haven't finished this upward trajectory, but even in this point, China is already the world biggest industrial power and US mainly keeps it economy afloat by printing US dollars, US doesn't produce much now, if China is still 30 years away from top manufacturer, how many years are for US?

Steyn warns of China's aspirations for global dominance: They've reduced America to 'cheap, service economy'

Steyn warns of China's aspirations for global dominance: They've reduced America to 'cheap, service economy'

Mark Steyn warns that China is aspiring for global dominance as Beijing leads New York City as the city with the largest population of billionaires on 'Fox News Primetime'

www.foxnews.com

1- I never said per capita we are the highest but per capita we are 6x as productive as you. So that statement from u was misleading

And tell the guy who’s thumping his chest to not get worked up

2- China got developed because we brought it to WTO. Before that you were farmers

3- We are more rooted in the world than you can even think of . The world financial system is built by us, the email, search engines, countless franchises... even this website when it makes money it has to give a part of its income to google which gets rerouted back in the US

US manufacturing sector is over $2.3 trillion. We don’t make stuff that isn’t productive to make so we outsource those jobs to China. That’s why world looks to buy F-16s from US and toys from China

Your economy is heavily built on government just spending on infrastructure. They make houses to boost gdp while they are very less buyer to buy those houses. That’s why ghost cities on China roam vast

US took 200 years to get a total debt:gdp ratio of 245%. China took 30 years to get to a total debt:gdp ratio of 337%. You are more unstable economy than we are that’s why even your government backed enterprises are defaulting on their loan and even CCP can’t help them

 

[letsrock]

1- I never said per capita we are the highest but per capita we are 6x as productive as you. So that statement from u was misleading

2- China got developed because we brought it to WTO. Before that you were farmers

3- We are more rooted in the world than you can even think of . The world financial system is built by us, the email, search engines, countless franchises... even this website when it makes money it has to give a part of its income to google which gets rerouted back in the US

US manufacturing sector is over $2.3 trillion. We don’t make stuff that isn’t productive to make so we outsource those jobs to China. That’s why world looks to buy F-16s from US and toys from China

Your economy is heavily built on government just spending on infrastructure. They make houses to boost gdp while they are very less buyer to buy those houses. That’s why ghost cities on China roam vast

US took 200 years to get a total debt:gdp ratio of 245%. China took 30 years to get to a total debt:gdp ratio of 337%. You are more unstable economy than we are that’s why even your government backed enterprises are defaulting on their loan and even CCP can’t help them

India is also in WTO - why did that magic did not happen there?

 

[Mk-313]

India is also in WTO - why did that magic did not happen there?

because we chose China to give our export, outsourced our jobs. And US had an alternate agenda to think if we startedshifting exports to China. They will see the prosperity and leave communism. And Dan xiopang guaranteed west with exclusive economics zone with huge incentives for companies to come there

just like west chose China for manufacturing it chose India for technical support and call centers.

but India remained a socialist country and didn’t give the western companies access or incentives Chinese did. At tht time pakistan per capita gdp was higher than India. And like pakistan today india was also indebted to the IMF

but in 90s they opened their country and gave incentive to the western companies to set up shop there. They paid their debt to the IMF, they per capita got double than pakistan and their economy got 5th or 6th biggest

 

[beijingwalker]

China is stil a developing country, we never denied it, in dollar term, but not in true standard of living, so many countries are still higher than China. but this is not the OP is talking about.

China developed by hardworking and she follows the normal pattern of every country's development, China didn't get anything more favorable and preferential than any other countries in the world.

US did have its glory in the past , so had Britain, but no one stays on the top forever.

We are talking about overall manufacturing strenths, every country has some particular strengths and weaknesses in certain fields

China's economy is very sustainable, after 40 years China imminent collapse propaganda by the west, China is still the best economy to get over every global crisis over the years.

Chinese debt is different from US, most big companies in China are state owned , and most debts were owed to these big companies, so Chinese debts are almost Chinese assets, it's like one of your pocket owes money to another of your pocket, it doesn't make much difference.

 

[Mk-313]

China is stil a developing country, we never denied it, in dollar term, but not in true standard of living, so many countries are still higher than China. but this is not the OP is talking about.

China developed by hardworking and she follows the normal pattern of every country's development, China didn't get anything more favorable and preferential than any other countries in the world.

US did have its glory in the past , so had Britain, but no one stays on the top forever.

We are talking about overall manufacturing strenths, every country has some particular strengths and weaknesses in certain fields

China's economy is very sustainable, after 40 years China imminent collapse propaganda by the west, China is still the best economy to get over every global crisis over the years.

Chinese debt is different from US, most big companies in China are state owned , and most debts were owed to these big companies, so Chinese debts are almost Chinese assets, it's like one of your pocket owes money to another of your pocket, it doesn't make much difference.

yes, and I never wrote the orignal post to you I wrote that post to the idiot who like Indians have started thinking that China is the unstoppable supa powa 2020

 

[letsrock]

because we chose China to give our export, outsourced our jobs. And US had an alternate agenda to think if we startedshifting exports to China. They will see the prosperity and leave communism. And Dan xiopang guaranteed west with exclusive economics zone with huge incentives for companies to come there

just like west chose China for manufacturing it chose India for technical support and call centers.

US ofcourse trades with china. US actually trades on a rules based economic system- there is no law in usa which explicitly favors goods from china in fact there are many that prevent goods from china on security grounds. Are you saying this trade has nothing to do with chinese ability to organize and produce goods at a competitve prices.

 

[Mk-313]

US ofcourse trades with china. US actually trades on a rules based economic system- there is no law in usa which explicitly favors goods from china in fact there are many that prevent goods from china on security grounds. Are you saying this trade has nothing to do with chinese ability to organize and produce goods at a competitve prices.

Yeah and I never said about any law. But think from the 90s or 2000s when China wasn’t a threat. And at the same time Chinese were giving huge incentives to US companies to set up shop there. Which allowed an ecosystem of infrastructure to develop there

as far as efficiency you have to know one doesn’t just get efficient. It is a stage by process and it requires continuous inflows of cash to justify the investment.

E.g . US companies start exporting from China that export gives Chinese money in profits which they reinvested in their infrastructure. Further when US companies would get a breakthrough technology that increased their efficiency they shared that knowledge with their counterparts in chins which lead them to reinvest more in their infrastructure and efficiency and this cycle continued

the biggest role I see that allowed this to happen is Chinese discipline. And no offense these people aren’t lazy, not corrupt, adhere to deadlines and make products without any cheating. The qualities Indians are lacking and why western companies don’t trust them withquality

 

[letsrock]

Yeah and I never said about any law. But think from the 90s or 2000s when China wasn’t a threat. And at the same time Chinese were giving huge incentives to US companies to set up shop there. Which allowed an ecosystem of infrastructure to develop there

as far as efficiency you have to know one doesn’t just get efficient. It is a stage by process and it requires continuous inflows of cash to justify the investment.

E.g . US companies start exporting from China that export gives Chinese money in profits which they reinvested in their infrastructure. Further when US companies would get a breakthrough technology that increased their efficiency they shared that knowledge with their counterparts in chins which lead them to reinvest more in their infrastructure and efficiency and this cycle continued

the biggest role I see that allowed this to happen is Chinese discipline. And no offense these people aren’t lazy, not corrupt, adhere to deadlines and make products without any cheating. The qualities Indians are lacking and why western companies don’t trust them withquality

So if chinese are disciplined like you say than US really has no choice but to trade with them. If not then someone else will. its as simple as that. ANd why would US not trade when it sees a benefit ?

 

[Mk-313]

So if chinese are disciplined like you say than US really has no choice but to trade with them. If not then someone else will. its as simple as that. ANd why would US not trade when it sees a benefit ?

Nope that’s half the story and more like China vs India comparison. And now we get into currency wars and why China holds a lot of US treasury bonds

when Chinese started having surplus of exports their currency started rising. It made their exports expensive and US started shifting to Vietnam, Philippines etc. and these countries were now more competitive than china

Chinese seeing that started buying US treasuries from those surplus dollars to keep the currency low and keep the export competitive. That’s why it’s an intertwined relationship where China has to buy US treasuries otherwise the yuan will rise against the dollar and collapse the exporting sector

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Nope that’s half the story. And now we get into currency wars and why China holds a lot of US treasury bonds

when Chinese started having surplus of exports their currency started rising. It made their exports expensive and US started shifting to Vietnam, Philippines etc. and these countries were now more competitive than china

Chinese seeing that started buying US treasuries from those surplus dollars to keep the currency low and keep the export competitive. That’s why it’s an intertwined relationship where China has to buy US treasuries otherwise the yuan will rise against the dollar and collapse the exporting sector

that's a very interesting fanfic you wrote. but reality says different. how do you explain the simultaneous increase of the RMB value relative to USD and the increase in US:CHN trade deficit?

you can't. pop economics fails to explain this fact.

 

[Mk-313]

that's a very interesting fanfic you wrote. but reality says different. how do you explain the simultaneous increase of the RMB value relative to USD and the increase in US:CHN trade deficit?

you can't. pop economics fails to explain this fact.

sigh.... there’s google all you have to do is search China-US debt loop. It’s a pretty common and well-known phenomenon . Just because u don’t like it doesn’t make it fan fic Kid

And 2- in 2015 China lowered RNB to increase exports the first time it was officially labeled as a currency manipulator. Also a pretty common known event

And dum dum renimbi will always rise as soon as you have an export surplus and surplus exist when u have a deficit against the USD. That’s literally what causes the value to rise. it’s what you do after to keep it low what matters.

 

[Leishangthem]

who has the 20% of the entire world population, yet only 9.3% of the world economy .

Who has 1.5 billion people yet is 6X less productive than US

who has the highest rate of patent application, Yet only 9% granted


Who has the most scientists in the world?? Yet need Taiwanese scientist to crack semi conductors

who is haemorrhaging their natural mineralresources to boost gdp yet USs are untapped

who is the 2nd largest economy yet gives $0 in aid

who started their vaccination early with more people to give vaccine yet still behind the US who started after the orange guy left

your govt is really good at portrayingtheir some unstoppable power.And you guys eat it up. Which is unsurprising in Cold War soviets portrayed themselves 10x higher than the US yet fell

The only legitimate thing you have going for you is your population but on par to par analysis ur way down the line

As a comparison
- US is 4% of the world population and constitute 16% of the world economy
- US has a 60% percentage of patent granted vs filed
- 4 generations ahead of you in semiconductors
- US being the biggest economy that gives $50 billion in aid
- US constitute less scientist than China. Yet created 3 vaccines that outperformed China with more scientist
- less population but significantly more universities in top 100

It seems you seek temporary respite from the agony of impending reality.

Who has 1.5 billion people yet is 6X less productive than US

The concept of productivity you're talking about is calculated by taking annual GDP against annual working hours into consideration,and nations with smaller population will always have advantage in this way of calculation.
But when you go to ground reality,and average American works as hard as chinese? Can Americans compete?

who has the highest rate of patent application, Yet only 9% granted

This is not true and misleading; China overtook US in WIPO pct patent ranking recently ,this is the gold standard of measuring International patent applications applied globally. Though China doesn't have a huge lead here.

Who has the most scientists in the world?? Yet need Taiwanese scientist to crack semi conductors

Top Semiconductor scientists aren't something magically created, these are only derived from decades of experience in semiconductor production,how many decades has it been since China took on foundry?
US itself don't have the capability to produce semiconductors,china has more of a complete supply chain,US only has some core tech, developed with 12+ allies,US can't make semiconductor on its own.Only china can.

who is the 2nd largest economy yet gives $0 in aid

Totally false,China, a "developing nation "provided 5.9 billion USD in 2018 alone for international aid.
US' so called Aid which is USAID is used by the US to fund regime change ,pro US dictators and destabilization,rather than funding the poor and destitute much of it is used for funding anti gov institutions that challenge the regimes seen as inconvenient to American interest.

who started their vaccination early with more people to give vaccine yet still behind the US who started after the orange guy left

China didn't suffer from 500K death ,to warrant massive-scale vaccination to curb the virus already contained.

- less population but significantly more universities in top 100

Top 100 rank created by and in favor of western institutions,but if you look up the high-quality research output,
US doesn't have more institutions in top 100.

Not denying US leads in many spheres ,but it had a leg up of almost a century in scientific advancement and development against china. China closed that gap in 2-3 decades of industrialization.Americans are scared and feel they are getting out competed,hence they are throwing everything at china to keep them from surpassing US.

 

[Mk-313]

It seems you seek temporary respite from the agony of impending reality.
The concept of productivity your talking about is calculated by taking annual GDP against annual working hours into consideration,and smaller population will always have in this way of calculation.
But when you go to ground reality,and average American works as hard as chinese? Can Americans compete?

This is not true and misleading; China overtook US in WIPO pct patent ranking recently ,this is the good standard of measuring International patent applications applied globally. Though China doesn't have huge lead here.


Top Semiconductor scientist aren't something magically created,these are only derived from decades of experience in semiconductor production,how many decades have it been since China took on foundry?
US itself don't have the capability to produce semiconductors,china has more of a complete supply chain,US only has some core tech ,developed with 12+ allies,US can't make semiconductor on its own.Only china can.

Totally false,China a "developing nation "provided 5.9 billion USD in 2018 alone for international aid.
US' so called Aid which is USAID is used by the US to fund regime change ,pro US dictators and destabilization,rather than funding the poor and destitute much of it is used for funding anti gov institutions that challenge the regimes seen as inconvenient to American interest.


China didn't suffer from 500K death ,to warrant massive scale vaccination to curb the virus already contained.



Top 100 rank created and in favor of western institutions,but look up the high quality research output
US don't have more universities in top 100.

Not denying US leads in many spheres ,but it had a leg up of almost a century in scientific advancement and development against china. China closed that gap in 2-3 decades of industrialization.

No, I don’t like stuck up idiots. Every country has a place on the world and they are important in their own right. But when you start pissing on everyone else that’s when you need to be taught down a bit

2- concept of GDP is not measured in hours annual hours . It’s measured on total spending

3- US doesn’t produce because of Moore law. So look it up.
The concept in general is processing power doubles every 2 years. And if it’s cheaper for someone else to make the said product I can divert the saved labor on something else

mans China is 4 generations behind than US in semiconductor technology. They don’t even close to a working supply chain for 4nm. And US is a capitalistic country so any company whohas a breakthrough in semiconductor will have it made wherever it is cheaper. US can build supply chain tomorrow if for example it costs the same to produce in Taiwan



4- it is true China has the most patent applications filed but how many of them were granted? 9%. Granted patent are what matters because they validate if what you’re presented is the breakthrough technology. Otherwise I can submit 10 million patent applications for nonsense stuff tomorrow which would outrank China but that isn’t a good standard.
Of the total patents filed US were granted 60%

And this correlates directly with who has more competent scientists and who has higher percentage

5- China still doesn’t have massive deaths from virus so does it mean it shouldn’t vaccinate all the people now? The arguement falls flat because vaccinations are going to be needed regardless of however many deaths you have

6- why an aid exist or top ranking exist is your opinion. I can lay out my opinion to justify an event in time. But that would be he said she said that’s why I rely on number


otherwise I can also confidently say half the stuff China has can never match the quality of US .Or Chinese GDP numbers are mostly false. And China regularly steals technology or half the patents China file are already granted in US to companies and China is getting for domestic purposes

but I can’t say it in because that would be my own opinion and not an impartial one

China got ahead because of forced technology transfers. And stealing IP and mind you catching up is an easy part because the bulk work has already been done by the innovators . Innovating something new is what takes time, money and effort. That’s why China always catches up but doesn’t produce anything new

that’s why when US invented 5th gen. China didn’t invent 6th gen or something radically new it tried to “catch up”

when Tesla made electric China didn’t make a new car powered something completely different it replicated

When US sent rover To Mars China didn’t say well go to Mercury or something or surpass US. They replicated the work done by us. Because when soviets went to space we said you went to space well out compete and go to moon

When this vaccine was invented US dabbled with a radical new technology of MRNA. China stuck to the old one. Now it’s CDC director says mRNA is better and they’ll produce it but they’ll just copy the US work

Now US companies are working with reusable rockets. US came for it they poured the trial and error, RND etc. Chinese will also make it but they’ll the work of spaceX etc

we’re not afraid of china catching up. We will always out innovate them. We just don’t like them stealing our shit and forced technology transfer of the hard work, trial and error and RND we put

 

[Varunastra]

It seems you seek temporary respite from the agony of impending reality.
The concept of productivity you're talking about is calculated by taking annual GDP against annual working hours into consideration,and nations with smaller population will always have advantage in this way of calculation.
But when you go to ground reality,and average American works as hard as chinese? Can Americans compete?

This is not true and misleading; China overtook US in WIPO pct patent ranking recently ,this is the good standard of measuring International patent applications applied globally. Though China doesn't have huge lead here.


Top Semiconductor scientist aren't something magically created,these are only derived from decades of experience in semiconductor production,how many decades have it been since China took on foundry?
US itself don't have the capability to produce semiconductors,china has more of a complete supply chain,US only has some core tech ,developed with 12+ allies,US can't make semiconductor on its own.Only china can.

Totally false,China a "developing nation "provided 5.9 billion USD in 2018 alone for international aid.
US' so called Aid which is USAID is used by the US to fund regime change ,pro US dictators and destabilization,rather than funding the poor and destitute much of it is used for funding anti gov institutions that challenge the regimes seen as inconvenient to American interest.


China didn't suffer from 500K death ,to warrant massive scale vaccination to curb the virus already contained.



Top 100 rank created and in favor of western institutions,but look up the high quality research output
US don't have more universities in top 100.

Not denying US leads in many spheres ,but it had a leg up of almost a century in scientific advancement and development against china. China closed that gap in 2-3 decades of industrialization.

Hey are you really Indian? From your avatar I say Manipur? I really wonder what makes you so pro Chinese to the point many fellow Indians would see you as anti-Indian. Most Manipuris I know are very patriotic about India.

 

[Beast]

Probably that is why they want Taiwan desperate - top notch semiconductor industry.

Dude... why dont you ask your friends to back off and be civil and learn to be civil. If you cannot, then ask them to leave this forum and leave us all in peace. I dont know why they dont go to online gaming forums, they can have a great time or join KCNA ministry.

Who is the one uncivilized? So far it's the only 2 that i mention are acting like uncouth and breaking forum rules in this thread. Feel free to prove your point. If not, the one need to back off ,is you.