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China starts "combat ready" patrols in disputed seas

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The fact that there were bilateral talks (which is FAILING obviously as NO ONE tends to give way), the next civilized/educated/diplomatic/ legal step is to EXHAUST AVAILABLE LEGAL MEANS.

So having read a lot about the issue, provided neither of the 2 nations would give way, am I right to assume that China would rather wage WAR than exhaust available educated/diplomatic/legal/civilized means(UN)? Isn't it a barbaric mindset that China rather wage bullying/intimidation than battle of wits on legal grounds with neutral arbitration?

Honestly, if the main idea of not bringing it to court is "China has nothing to gain but everything lose" while "Philippines has everything to gain but nothing to lose" is rubbish. China is so confident Scarbrough Shoal is theirs and can overwhelmingly prove it legally before UN anytime anyday, so why even entertain every ounce of fear on the above idea? Likewise it's the perfect opportunity to shut other claimants up, and sinking all the stubborn trespassing ships is now justifiable. Spare us the bollocks on the fear of not having neutral arbitration before UN. If one has lost much faith in UN, by all means LEAVE and ISOLATE itself from the rest of the diplomatic world!


Don't talk those legal jumbo with me, unlike you' I'm not an international lawyer. If your so sure and good at your 'facts', tell your president. My issue is Aquino does injustice to his people and the people around this area by begging shamelessly in inviting a bully to his home to counter another what you 'perceived' another bully.

If your grandpapa get crazy and kill people, will you help him to hide and kill more man ? Or you advise him to stop. Loyal to your root does not mean to support it by all means. If you are educated, you have to realize what is right and what is wrong. If you support your root by all means you will be kicked out by the rest of human being.

The main logical of China is : Mine is mine, yours is mine and we share
Is there anything more ridiculous than this kind of logic?


So who's right and who decides who's right, you?

My grandfather didn't get crazy, like yours, thank you. But he did kill a few Japanese and I'm proud of him, so what, go suit us.

Pol Pot(chinese-khmer), Yeng sary (chinese-Vnese) had the same thought with you, and now, you know where they are , right?:coffee:


If you have something to say, say it. Don't talk riddles through the side of your mouth. The last Mafioso that threaten me like this is still under the Meadowland.
 
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. My issue is Aquino does injustice to his people and the people around this area by begging shamelessly in inviting a bully to his home to counter another what you 'perceived' another bully.

The only known bully to us is China. What you should do is tell your beloved China to stop shamelessly claiming her neighbor's territory. The Philippines claim is backed by international law(UNCLOS), China's claim is groundless. We view China as a bully and it's the truth. China is the biggest bully here in our neighborhood. China's actions to date are nothing but of an agressive bully.
China is using force to claim Bajo de Masinloc which is within Philippine's EEZ because it has the firepower to do so.



'China's claims in Spratlys groundless'

by Jojo Malig, ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 07/02/2012 11:31 PM | Updated as of 07/02/2012 11:31 PM

MANILA, Philippines - China's claims in the South China Sea are groundless, an Australian defense expert said at a recent Washington DC forum organized by a US think-tank.

Professor Carlyle Thayer from the Australian Defense Force Academy said at the June 27-28 gathering sponsored by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) that China's so-called U-shaped line in the South China Sea is not legal.

He said the line, which China created in 1948, was drawn before the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which was signed in 1982.

The 2-day forum, entitled “The East Sea and Asia Pacific in Transition: Exploring Options for Managing Disputes” focused on maritime security concerns in the region.

The gathering took take place a week before US Secretary of State Clinton attends the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF) and Post-Ministerial Conference (PMC) in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.

Doubts over China's claim

US Senator Joseph Lieberman, in a keynote speech during the forum, also expressed doubts over China's 9-dash line.

"The lack of clarity... over the rationale for China's nine-dash line, has been especially unsettling," he said.

Lieberman said he is concerned about China’s behavior in region.

"I believe it’s pushing the region in the wrong direction and sending a message that is discouraging about what kind of great power China will be and how it will relate to its closest neighbors," he said.

"The overly broad scope, nature and basis of China’s claims are quite naturally fostering a climate of anxiety and driving other parties, most recently Vietnam and the Philippines, to fortify their own claims," he added.

Lieberman said, while the US is not a claimant in the disputes over the Spratlys, Washington has a keen interest in the area.

He said more than $1.2 trillion worth of US trade flows through the South China Sea every year.

He added that what happens in the region matters to the US because it "is a test of whether the geopolitics of a rising Asia are going to be defined by win-win cooperation or zero-sum competition."

"China’s conduct in the South China Sea will inevitably affect its relations with the U.S. and just about everyone else in the world. And in this respect, what happens in the South China Sea really is everyone’s business," Lieberman said.

China will be isolated

"When China pursues policies in the South China Sea that are heavy-handed or lack a clear basis in international law, it naturally creates distrust, increases the danger of miscalculation and leaves China, I’m afraid, more isolated in the region and in the world. That’s not an outcome that any of us should want, least of all the United States," he added.

During the forum, Lieberman praised President Benigno Aquino for his handling of the Scarborough shoal dispute.

"The de-escalation of the conflict in the Scarborough Shoal was very important. And I appreciate that President Aquino actually reacted – I think he handled it in a very balanced and sensitive way," he told Philippine Ambassador to Washington Jose L. Cuisia, Jr.

The US senator said the Mutual Defense Treaty between the the US and Manila "is a matter of national obligation" for Americans.

"It’s real," he said.

He added, however, that the US should "strengthen the Philippines defensively so that no one runs the risk of trying to take advantage" of the country.

Lieberman said Washington and Manila are holding discussion "the US Senate Armed Services Committee is interested in, which are aimed particularly to give (the Philippines) some greater defensive capabilities."

Kurt Campbell, US Assistant State Secretary for East Asia and the Pacific, said Clinton will take the lead on high-level diplomacy in the region.

"The secretary will be rolling out some specific initiatives when she visits Southeast Asia in the next few weeks," he said.

Praise for Aquino

He also praised the Philippines and President Benigno Aquino's handling of the South China Sea issues.

"I must commend our colleagues in the Philippines who, I think, are working hard to ensure that peace and stability prevails," Campbell said.

"This is one of the best governments we’ve seen in decades. We want to support that government," he said.

He described Aquino recent visit to the US as a success.

"He is tackling corruption in his country in a way that we have not seen in over a generation," Campbell said.



'China's claims in Spratlys groundless' | ABS-CBN News
 
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I wonder why Singapore is still a member of Commonwealth of Nations. How can a nation be proud if its membership to an organization reminds her of her British Empire past?

Man atleast singapore dont have to send their women all over the world to work as maid to feed their nation ,nothing can be more shameful than feeding off by women, your country is the most shameful on earth .
 
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Well you're entitle to your opinion as I entitle mine: Aquino is the only bully in the whole affair. Adios.
 
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You are generalizing that the Philippine media is biased against China and yet I showed you an article from a Philippine newspaper praising China so your argument is already busted. So do you want me to post more pro-China articles from Philippine media?
Thanks Bro. I am just disproving his idea that free media is what misleads the people.

you are admitted that you haven't posted any true article about china or any whole true story but biased and anti-china! that is how your misleading be. and that is why your argument so far is biased and baseless! unless you did what you said and reverse your conclusion, like your statement on who is aggressive, which country is coward, the philipine?!
 
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That is your opinion and I respect that. But we cannot just turn a blind eye while somebody else is stealing what is obviously ours. The first country that wants to resolve this diplomatically is ours but China does not want to go to ITLOS. How can you negotiate to a country that asserts "undisputable sovereignity" to the whole South China Sea and would resort to military action to get what it wants? The MDT is the only remaining card that we have, aside from worldwide condemnation of China if it takes Philippine held territory by force. Whether America will honor the MDT or not remains to be seen but we will not let our guard down.



It's a waste of time arguing with a double-faced false flagger.

So you cannot handle someone who is objective sees your weak logic and bs.
 
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Its not really a matter of discussion. It is clearly stated in the treaty that if military vessels are subject to an armed attack, the US will get involved (though presumably the Philippines has to request involvement first).

Either the US gets involved should the Philippines request it or it abrogates the treaty, no real middle-ground.

Trying to do legal cartwheels around actually getting involved after an armed attack on Philippine naval vessels escorting fishermen to the shoal is simply designated as the latter.
Sinking 3 military ships is an act of war.

There is precedent to our government sitting it out. The 1974 Paracel battle between 4 South Vietnamese Naval ships and PLA ships, wherein
a request For assistance from an ally was turned down.

Japan, Philippines sign defence pact

The defence ministers of Japan and the Philippines agreed on 2 July to closer military co-operation with an emphasis on maritime security.

Jane's Defence Weekly - Asia/Pacific

So you gameplan is to let others save you. How bout saving yourselves for once.
 
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Japan, Philippines sign defence pact。。。。。。。

We chinese know the history。
 
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There is precedent to our government sitting it out. The 1974 Paracel battle between 4 South Vietnamese Naval ships and PLA ships, wherein
a request For assistance from an ally was turned down.

The precedent was preceded by legal justification by congress, though it wasn't created specifically for this purpose.

Case


I don't think we actually disagree on the option laid out before the US in case of such a scenario, either the US gets involved or it abrogates the treaty.

But you are of the opinion that it is likely the US will abrogate the treaty correct?

It might hearten you to know that the above legal justification came into being before the request was rejected, and there is no such similar law that I know of in regards to the MDT yet.
 
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It is not my opinion that the US will abrogate the treaty, but since the shoal's sovereignty is disputed and since we have not ratified UNCLOS there really is no basis for our country to recognize any country's claim to the shoal. However, when we had bases in the Philippines, the USN in conjuction with the Philippine military used those rocks as target practice. Whether that signifies implicit recognition of sovereignty is up to debate.

Since the potential conflict involves a huge nation that has the capacity to resist and fight back, the consequences to the world economy and stability is simply too great to risk for a few uninhabitable rocks. If the situation involved conflict over the Philippine mainland, or the all out destruction of their military, then I am of the opinion that we are obligated to help militarily.

I suppose what I am trying to say is, the Filipinoes do not appreciate the gravity of what they are asking. They think we should shoot it out or intimidate the Chinese over this while they watch in the sidelines. While I have no doubt we have the capacity to defeat PLAN and PLAAF, my fear is a shooting war over some neglected rocks will lead to a much larger conflict (which I also strongly believe we will prevail) that would cost lives on all sides, and for what, a bunch of semi submerge rocks that no one in our country except for a few knew existed.
 
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see, the way you enjoy freedom of misleading in philippine makes you so crude! we never say someone "a*s licking" like you! probably, the filipino freedom of misleading has taught such kind of f!lthy sexual precept. no wonder they are not awake to learn the truth!

Yes, you enjoy your freedom too. You see you are the first one who mumbled profanities here not me. Look at your post at page 14 of this thread. So I am rephrasing your statement: see, the way you enjoy freedom of misleading in Pakistan makes you so crude! we never say someone "f*ck" like you! probably, the Pakistani freedom of misleading has taught such kind of f!lthy sexual precept. no wonder they are not awake to learn the truth! :no:

that the chinese is brainwashed by their governemnt is still better than by the filipino. because they are chinese not the filipino. based on what right, you can tell other people "YOU CAN'T"? it shows the filipino is showing is its dictatorial nature by impose what people can and can't do. f*ck the filipino!
UNCLOS? why dont you ask your master countries like UK, USA, France, and Japanese dogs to obligate that law? unless your master countries tell you that they are wrong and lie, then china does. the UNCLOS cannot be applied on any thing claimed and declared before1982. what the stupid and stubborn filipino? you have been brainwashed by philippine goverment, that makes you so stupid here! you, f*ck you, stop talking crap here!

you are admitted that you haven't posted any true article about china or any whole true story but biased and anti-china! that is how your misleading be. and that is why your argument so far is biased and baseless! unless you did what you said and reverse your conclusion, like your statement on who is aggressive, which country is coward, the philipine?!

You are putting words into my mouth. You are busted, can't argue with someone with comprehension problems. :flame:
 
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So you gameplan is to let others save you. How bout saving yourselves for once.

Can you blame a weak country like the Philippines for seeking help from a longtime ally after what China did?

During World War II, America and her allies defeated the Axis powers. Do you think America can defeat the Axis powers alone??? The Filipinos sacrificed and bled for America to stall the Japanese for months so that the Americans can prepare against the Japanese. Remember Corregidor and Bataan.

We do not want war with China, we want our dispute to be settled thru arbitration(ICJ/ITLOS). Our claim is based on international law, while China's claim is groundless. But China would rather wage WAR than exhaust available educated/diplomatic/legal/civilized means. Remember, the Philippines never threatened war with China, it is China who threatened us with small scale war.

The only credible deterrent against a big bully like China for small countries like us is to develop nuclear & missile technology. You can say goodbye to Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty as smaller states will opt to develop nuclear weapons as a deterrent against a bigger neighbor. I would not be surprised if Japan will secretly develop nuclear weapons to defend herself from Chinese aggression and warmongering.
 
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In Taiwan, almost all Pinoys are either servants or day laborers. We can just make the assumption and we would be correct 99 out of 100 times.

In Taiwan, Vietnamese women are mail order brides. I have a relative that has a Vietnamese mail order bride.
 
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Man atleast singapore dont have to send their women all over the world to work as maid to feed their nation ,nothing can be more shameful than feeding off by women, your country is the most shameful on earth .

i happen to know of a lot of chinese mail order brides in australia and other western countries...

so your really not one to talk about philippine mail order brides
 
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