China shall give 50 JF17 Thunder on emergency bases

[LandShark]

this will piss off India again.

during a war, resupply is essential.

when Pakistan needs planes, China can fulfill the request immediately, and Pakistan pilots can use them right away because it is the same plane.

where will India get their resuply? Russia? lol

 

[razgriz19]

Pakistan and China to Strengthen Military Ties
By Bloomberg News - May 20, 2011 1:18 AM ET

Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani is to meet Chinese President Hu Jintao today in Beijing amid signs the countries are boosting already close military ties in the wake of the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

pakistani Defense Minister Ahmad Mukhtar said in a May 18 interview in Beijing that his country was in talks to buy FC-20 jets from China and that teams led by Gilani and Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao had discussed boosting production of the jointly produced JF-17 fighter aircraft. The New York Times said China will provide 50 JF-17 fighters immediately for free, citing Pakistan officials it didn’t name.

Gilani’s visit to China comes as Pakistan’s relations with the U.S. have come under strain following the raid on the garrison town of Abbottabad earlier this month that killed al- Qaeda chief bin Laden. Abbottabad is 48 kilometers (30 miles) from Pakistan’s capital, Islamabad. Chinese officials have said anti-terrorist operations should respect national sovereignty.

Pakistan’s delegation told Wen “that our sovereignty had to be accepted by everybody,” Mukhtar said at Beijing’s Great Hall of the People. “We will not let anybody come into our territory without announcing who they are.”

Wen told Gilani that “no matter what changes might take place in the international landscape, China and Pakistan will remain forever good neighbors, good friends, good partners and good brothers.”

U.S. Aid

President Barack Obama has proposed $1.2 billion in aid to Pakistan next year for programs that include counterinsurgency training for its military forces. Five Democratic U.S. senators, including California’s Dianne Feinstein, wrote a May 17 letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert Gates questioning the need for such assistance, saying they were "gravely concerned about the commitment of Pakistan’s security establishment to fighting terrorism."

Almost half of Chinese arms exports between 2001 and 2010, totaling $3.13 billion, went to Pakistan, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

China has had diplomatic ties with Pakistan for six decades, helping the country build power stations, roads and a deepwater port. Ahead of the visit, Gilani told the official Xinhua News Agency that China was Pakistan’s “time-tested and all-weather friend.” Gilani told Xinhua that China was the first country to show support for Pakistan following the raid against bin Laden.

The FC-20 fighter, known as the J-10 in China, is roughly equivalent to the U.S. F-16C fighter, according to the Asian Defence blog, which tracks Asian military developments.

--Michael Forsythe, Daniel Ten Kate. Editors: Ben Richardson, John Brinsley

Pakistan and China to Strengthen Military Ties - Bloomberg

 

[abdulbarijan]

Just read the news today its mentioned that Ahmed mukhtar has said that Pakistan will get 50 JF-17's in 6 months...

 

[Pak_Sher]

Pakistan needs to speed up production of the JF-17 aircraft and PAF and Pakistan Navy should shoot for a total strength of 1000+ aircraft in the medium to long term. Great article.

 

[Riz]

Just read the news today its mentioned that Ahmed mukhtar has said that Pakistan will get 50 JF-17's in 6 months...

There was also mentioned that china denied Pakistan request to sell these crafts to any friendly country, but can sold after 10 years of time period....

 

[ANG]

Hi, I wanted everyone one to be realistic in this scenario. Some members have mentioned the PAF and PN should have a combined JF-17 strength of 1000+. Are you serious or kidding me? Where will the funds come from? For maintenance, fuel, weapons, modernization, pilot and ground crew training? Lets be realistic here.

Pakistan basically had to ask the Chinese to bail them out here as they borrowed money for the first batch of 50, and probably did not have the funds for the second batch of 50. Who would give them (Pakistan) a loan for 1000 JF-17s?

 

[ANG]

Hi, a lot of members are happy about getting these 50 new aircraft. However, one has to also factor in the long term human cost. Just the ecnomist/statistician in me thinking...

/***************************************/

JF-17 blunder? What else you can get for the price of 50 fighter jets? – The Express Tribune

JF-17 blunder? What else you can get for the price of 50 fighter jets?
By Gulraiz Khan
Published: May 21, 2011
KARACHI:

Pakistan is getting a good deal, Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar will tell you. Instead of paying $80 million per piece for the American-built F-16s, the JF-17 Thunder fighter jets will cost us about a fourth of that, between $20 and $25 million per piece.

The deal is so good, the minister says, that we’ve ordered 50 of the JF-17s to be delivered in the next six months.

How much would that cost us? Between $1 and $1.25 billion. That doesn’t sound awfully expensive for national defence in itself but how else could we spend about $1.25 billion?

Education
About seven million children in Pakistan are not enrolled in primary schools, according to Pakistan Education Task Force. With $1.25 billion, The Citizen’s Foundation, a private NGO that runs schools for underprivileged children, could educate 1.8 million of them for three years in over 7,000 schools built from scratch. Of course, if it was spent more wisely on already constructed schools, it could possibly resolve Pakistan’s education emergency.

Health
The Saudi government built basic health units at a cost of Rs13 million each in quake-affected a reas. That means instead of 50 fighter jets, we could have 8,173 basic health units, or over 1,400 fully-equipped, 50-bed hospitals.

Infrastructure
Lack of infrastructure – roads, airports, public transit systems – is a serious constraint on Pakistan’s development. Meanwhile, the floods destroyed the already-existing highway network in the country. For $1.25 billion, the National Highway Authority could build approximately 2,500 kilometres of brand new, four-lane highways or 1,250 kms of world-class, six-lane, access controlled motorways. That’s more than three times the length of the famed Islamabad-Lahore motorway.

Of course, it could alternatively be spent on the much-needed Gwadar airport, 13 times over!

And if I were to be selfish and think just about Karachi, it could pay for 80% of the Karachi Circular Railway’s cost, or give the city a modern bus rapid transit network, four times. That’s real splurging.

Power
Each megawatt (MWe) of power produced by a thermal plant costs about $1 million in plant construction etc, on average. $1.25 billion would mean we add an additional 1,250 MWe of electricity to our starved network. Of course, there is no guarantee we’d be able to produce and then use it since lack of electricity is not due to lack of installed generation capacity. But if you’re jingoistic enough, one could also use the 50 fighter jets money for an additional nuclear reactor at Chashma that would produce 340 MWe of electricity.

Published in The Express Tribune, May 21st, 2011.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Hi, a lot of members are happy about getting these 50 new aircraft. However, one has to also factor in the long term human cost. Just the ecnomist/statistician in me thinking...

/***************************************/

JF-17 blunder? What else you can get for the price of 50 fighter jets? – The Express Tribune

JF-17 blunder? What else you can get for the price of 50 fighter jets?
By Gulraiz Khan
Published: May 21, 2011
KARACHI:

Pakistan is getting a good deal, Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar will tell you. Instead of paying $80 million per piece for the American-built F-16s, the JF-17 Thunder fighter jets will cost us about a fourth of that, between $20 and $25 million per piece.

The deal is so good, the minister says, that we’ve ordered 50 of the JF-17s to be delivered in the next six months.

How much would that cost us? Between $1 and $1.25 billion. That doesn’t sound awfully expensive for national defence in itself but how else could we spend about $1.25 billion?

Education
About seven million children in Pakistan are not enrolled in primary schools, according to Pakistan Education Task Force. With $1.25 billion, The Citizen’s Foundation, a private NGO that runs schools for underprivileged children, could educate 1.8 million of them for three years in over 7,000 schools built from scratch. Of course, if it was spent more wisely on already constructed schools, it could possibly resolve Pakistan’s education emergency.

Health
The Saudi government built basic health units at a cost of Rs13 million each in quake-affected a reas. That means instead of 50 fighter jets, we could have 8,173 basic health units, or over 1,400 fully-equipped, 50-bed hospitals.

Infrastructure
Lack of infrastructure – roads, airports, public transit systems – is a serious constraint on Pakistan’s development. Meanwhile, the floods destroyed the already-existing highway network in the country. For $1.25 billion, the National Highway Authority could build approximately 2,500 kilometres of brand new, four-lane highways or 1,250 kms of world-class, six-lane, access controlled motorways. That’s more than three times the length of the famed Islamabad-Lahore motorway.

Of course, it could alternatively be spent on the much-needed Gwadar airport, 13 times over!

And if I were to be selfish and think just about Karachi, it could pay for 80% of the Karachi Circular Railway’s cost, or give the city a modern bus rapid transit network, four times. That’s real splurging.

Power
Each megawatt (MWe) of power produced by a thermal plant costs about $1 million in plant construction etc, on average. $1.25 billion would mean we add an additional 1,250 MWe of electricity to our starved network. Of course, there is no guarantee we’d be able to produce and then use it since lack of electricity is not due to lack of installed generation capacity. But if you’re jingoistic enough, one could also use the 50 fighter jets money for an additional nuclear reactor at Chashma that would produce 340 MWe of electricity.

Published in The Express Tribune, May 21st, 2011.

And in reply i wrote on the The Express Tribune page:

Well, its good that we see such kind of comments targeting the military expenditure.

But it would be much much better, if the article had commented on the Rs.300+Billion being wasted on keeping alive the 8 or so large Public Sector Organizations like WAPDA, PIA, Pak Steel Mills, Pak Railways etc etc. Rs.300+Billion comes to US$3.5Billion, double the amount which we will pay for these JF-17s which atleast would be used in the defence of the country. Nobody asks questions about the Rs.300Billion being wasted on the PSO, just to keep them alive.

Then again, no one asks that why don't we implement agri income tax, which alone will and can generate us Rs.200-250Billion or even more in tax revenues and if we can add the other rich and non tax paying nation in the tax net, we can generate much much more.

These above two sectors of our country / nation can alone generate us close to USD$$ 6-7Billion a year revenues which can be well used for education, health and infrastructure development.

WAPDA has more then 100K employees and thousands more retired, who enjoy large number of free electricity units, and in the end the poor people have to pay extra money to keep WAPDA alive.

So, plz before targeting the military expenditure, ask yourselves about the issues mentioned above and see what we can generate with just a few extra measures.

Regards

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. TaimiKhan, very good response. I will leave it at this. I am a banker by profession and just wanted get some feedback by other members. I completely agree that Public Sector Enterprises, corruption, and lack of taxation (9% of GDP, lowest in the world) are the biggest threats to Pakistan. The country has to keep its defense at a minimal level and also ensure a sanction proof aircraft platform. The JF-17 provides that.

I will not comment on this particular article anymore (other cost of JF-17) as I do not want to derail the thread. Thanks!

 

[alibaz]

And in reply i wrote on the The Express Tribune page:

Well, its good that we see such kind of comments targeting the military expenditure.

But it would be much much better, if the article had commented on the Rs.300+Billion being wasted on keeping alive the 8 or so large Public Sector Organizations like WAPDA, PIA, Pak Steel Mills, Pak Railways etc etc. Rs.300+Billion comes to US$3.5Billion, double the amount which we will pay for these JF-17s which atleast would be used in the defence of the country. Nobody asks questions about the Rs.300Billion being wasted on the PSO, just to keep them alive.

Then again, no one asks that why don't we implement agri income tax, which alone will and can generate us Rs.200-250Billion or even more in tax revenues and if we can add the other rich and non tax paying nation in the tax net, we can generate much much more.

These above two sectors of our country / nation can alone generate us close to USD$$ 6-7Billion a year revenues which can be well used for education, health and infrastructure development.

WAPDA has more then 100K employees and thousands more retired, who enjoy large number of free electricity units, and in the end the poor people have to pay extra money to keep WAPDA alive.

So, plz before targeting the military expenditure, ask yourselves about the issues mentioned above and see what we can generate with just a few extra measures.

Regards

You shot in the center of the center of Bull eye

 

[abdulbarijan]

As per eagle hannan we will be getting JF-17 block 2 with improved avionics and radar...
we heard for block 2 that it will be having a composite airframe,more hard points...etc.....
but thats not even discussed

 

[Dazzler]

As per eagle hannan we will be getting JF-17 block 2 with improved avionics and radar...
we heard for block 2 that it will be having a composite airframe,more hard points...etc.....
but thats not even discussed

Tested since 2009, more powerful weapon mission management computer, store management system, powerful Defense Aid System including MAWS new version SE-3, superior avionics, communication suite, improved full spectrum of electronic warfare suite, radar could be small AESA of J-10 or KLJ-7B version with more range, modes, anti jamming, composite will increase from 8 to 30 or 40% allowing weight reduction and chin mounted hard point (s), IRST is there most likely. It is an overall improvement of first batch.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Tested since 2009, more powerful weapon mission management computer, store management system, powerful Defense Aid System including MAWS new version SE-3, superior avionics, communication suite, improved full spectrum of electronic warfare suite, radar could be small AESA of J-10 or KLJ-7B version with more range, modes, anti jamming, composite will increase from 8 to 30 or 40% allowing weight reduction and chin mounted hard point (s), IRST is there most likely. It is an overall improvement of first batch.

just 1 more thing sir i have noticed senior members saying that JF-17 avionics are nearly equal to that of F-16 block 50,with the avionics upgrade which block of F-16 would it match the most evenly (as per avionics)
and overall block 1 was comparable to block 30 F-16's
Which F-16 or Mig-29 Block/version will JF-17 block 2 be most evenly matched with...

 

[luckyyy]

pakistan has putup a assembly facility at home for jf-17 , then why these 50 jf-17 coming from china in a flyaway condition.....

 

[Major Sam]

pakistan has putup a assembly facility at home for jf-17 , then why these 50 jf-17 coming from china in a flyaway condition.....

its due to slow annual production speed at PAC, and also china was already working on them , they are may be near completion thats why china is giving us.