China Ranks Last in Importance of Religion, Research Shows

[Nike]

That's true but also a deeply religious person will turn into a blood-thirsty animal/zombie if the same regulation orders them (as they interpret it) to hurt others for purity or salvation.

Consider the sectarian war of Europe like 30-Year Wars and the deep sectarian hellhole the entire Middle East is about to fall (if not already did so) thanks to Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Co.

And certain scholars will say, "it is wrong if you think religion (traditional ones) is all about peace and salvation; no, it is as much about conquer and gaining upper hand as giving alms."

Traditional (especially Middle East-oriented) religions in their original texts assert you may create hell in this world because what really matters is the here-after. Hence, non-secular outlook makes them love and desire the here-after to the degree they hate and despise "here and now."

I read news as to IS suicide bomber selection process. It is voluntary and if there are 8 slots for the position, there will be 50 volunteers and those "lucky" ones will be congratulated while the "losers" will shed tears for the lost opportunity.

Regular members of IS (as well as the likes such as Turkey-supported Ahrar al-Sham, Abdelhamid Brigades etc.) are said to be debating and even in fighting for lots in Eden/Heaven and, you know, the more disintegrated one gets in a suicide mission, the better lots one will receive in Heaven, like a home nearby a pristine river.

Sound like a joke and a terrible jike, but, that's the very surreality. That's how loving and peaceful a religion can get.

In my opinion, religious people, due to their disregard of secular laws and lifestyles, are bound to violence to a greater degree than a secular, self-controlled person with no divine laws running supreme over her/him.

Of course, I separate Middle Eastern religiosity from East Asian spirituality.

We must develop strategies against and stay proactive against Middle Eastern (which includes Islam and Christianity)
religious more than we develop A2AD capability against the US. The former is more lethal.



Again, face is still a more liberal code than honor that is widely practiced in the deeply religious societies. "Face" is secular, and bound by this world here, while "honor" is not simply about this world but also related, again, to the here-after. Hence the widespread honor-killings in deeply (especially Islamic) societies, especially with respect to women's (anticipated) conduct/behavior.



According to a survey I read, 8% of Turkish population "supports ISIS" while 18% says "they could not say ISIS is a terrorist organization even they would not support it." So, perhaps you can give a good 2% of this 18% to make 8% a good 10%.

The question asked to people over voting age. Hence, under Turkey's parliamentary rule of 10% threshold to be represented in the National Assembly, in fact, if IS sets up a party tomorrow, they have a good chance of being represented there.

8-10% of Turkey translates into some 8 million adults. And these people tend to have larger families than secular ones. Can you see the potential here? Can you see how IS and the likes, with their relatively smaller size, are capable of doing? I guess @Lure can provide some feedback here.

What is considered extreme today can be mainstream in a few years. Generations change. And at time, ahistorically, they change for worse. Turkey's government has been in power for almost 14 years and those 10 years old at that time are now in their mid-20s. The trend is reversible perhaps but the window of opportunity is closing down on them. Certain areas of Istanbul, they say, already looks like just another city in Saudi Arabia, with women clad in long dark robes from top of the head to the tip of the toe.

People's perception of "crazies and deluded with the word of god" will change dramatically as they become the new normal. In IS land, if you comply the draconian rules (and luckily not a Shia), they will call you "akhi, akhi." The same long-bearded cute men will slowly decapitate another man with a knife and will go about their lives like nothing really happened.

This level of craziness only religion is capable of leading to. For religion is inherently illogical and unbound by reason.

I would say, never allow religion to run supreme. A healthy dose of spirituality mixed with strong secularism is the way to go. Learn from Turkish experience.

man, you should learn even without religion human still can kill each other by other pretext. As example, the great WW I and WW II, in which much bloodier than any other conflict in human history is not kind of religion wars but in the name of Nationalism and ideology. Even the pretext of 30 years wars in Europe is actually more to do with war of succession among many dynasties in Europe if not for land grabbing situations to increasing their own wealth and power. Your so called cute secularist people like Stalin and Lenin is actually a capable killer and much more effective to brainwashing people to follow their suits.

One thing i learn is, it was the human greediness and our inner beast who drive us to conflict between each other not the religion or so. Homo homini lupus is already within us.

Religion bring same sanity and perseverance within human, and contained some of the beast nature within us not vice versa. By bringing the order and the thoughts if there is a much powerful being other than humanity we hold back much of violence nature caused by the thoughts of Realism, we the believers at least believe we hold something we should be afraid of. If there is a case of violence among the believers, it was not the fault of the Religion itself but our very nature as the cause, as you can see many violence happened in many society in this world even in the one without religion.

 

[beijingwalker]

One thing I always wonder, religious people hate people believing in other religions more or atheists more? The on-going anti Muslim sentiment all across Europe is coming to an explosion level, what will that end up with is very worrying.

 

[antonius123]

One thing I always wonder, religious people hate people believing in other religions more or atheists more? The on-going anti Muslim sentiment all across Europe is coming to an explosion level, what will that end up with is very worrying.

Depend on which religion. There may some religion teaching to wage ware against other believer. But most religion in the world teach peace, forgiving, loving enemy (christian).

 

[TaiShang]

One thing I always wonder, religious people hate people believing in other religions more or atheists more? The on-going anti Muslim sentiment all across Europe is coming to an explosion level, what will that end up with is very worrying.

The bloodiest wars are always between sects within the same religious paradigm. It was the case with Christianity in the Middle Ages until they reformed and purged the religion and the religious class. It is the case today among Muslims.

Inter-religion enmity has also been always very destructive. At least, religious texts provided the encouragement and spiritual help for the holy warrior. Remember pastor's sermons in US army units fighting in Iraq during the Second Gulf War. The pastor was not definitely preaching not to kill anyone.

So, taken literally, the holy books of both Islam and Christianity (and Judaism, but, it is at least not expansionist, unlike the first two) are soaked with blood. It is not the fairy tale of "peace, forgiving, loving enemy." It has never been so unless these are used as a façade for ulterior motives. Therefore, religious zealots took pains to re-re-re-re-interpret the holy texts to suit the rationale of the modern laws.

But essentially, in their literal sense, monetized and political religions feed on the blood and pain of others inflicted in the name of some higher power that one cannot question.

Religiosity (not spirituality) is antithetical to logic and reason.

 

[kuge]

this topic is about religious commitment only & has not much to do with socio-economic-scientific development cooked up by the pdf members.
further religious attitudes vary considerably individually

iow, it is a waste of time to argue this & that...

One thing I always wonder, religious people hate people believing in other religions more or atheists more? The on-going anti Muslim sentiment all across Europe is coming to an explosion level, what will that end up with is very worrying.

true religion is "love your enemies & pray for them."

The bloodiest wars are always between sects within the same religious paradigm. It was the case with Christianity in the Middle Ages until they reformed and purged the religion and the religious class. It is the case today among Muslims.

Inter-religion enmity has also been always very destructive. At least, religious texts provided the encouragement and spiritual help for the holy warrior. Remember pastor's sermons in US army units fighting in Iraq during the Second Gulf War. The pastor was not definitely preaching not to kill anyone.

So, taken literally, the holy books of both Islam and Christianity (and Judaism, but, it is at least not expansionist, unlike the first two) are soaked with blood. It is not the fairy tale of "peace, forgiving, loving enemy." It has never been so unless these are used as a façade for ulterior motives. Therefore, religious zealots took pains to re-re-re-re-interpret the holy texts to suit the rationale of the modern laws.

But essentially, in their literal sense, monetized and political religions feed on the blood and pain of others inflicted in the name of some higher power that one cannot question.

Religiosity (not spirituality) is antithetical to logic and reason.

what is religion anyway? any own, including you, personal belief or thoughts is a religion.
to some sport is a religion,for example

 

[Sky lord]

true religion is "love your enemies & pray for them."

Name ONE religion , just one, that has consistently loved all their enemies and prayed for them?

Does such a religion exist?

 

[windywine]

Name ONE religion , just one, that has consistently loved all their enemies and prayed for them?

Does such a religion exist?

Agree with you

 

[antonius123]

Name ONE religion , just one, that has consistently loved all their enemies and prayed for them?

Does such a religion exist?

Yes. It is Christian.
Jesus teach to love your enemy and pray for them.

 

[Sky lord]

Yes. It is Christian.
Jesus teach to love your enemy and pray for them.

And do his followers practice that? Here is an example of what they did to people who disagreed with them.


Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TaiShang]

what is religion anyway? any own, including you, personal belief or thoughts is a religion.
to some sport is a religion,for example

Apparently, by religion, what is meant here is not secular activities one is passionately attached to such as football or idol worship.

No matter what, those secular passionate attachments start and end here, and have nothing to do with some unknown higher power and promise of the hereafter.

Religio, if I am not mistaken, means "to connect," and organized religions claims to connect a person with the Creator. That's where it becomes problematic: You cannot question the message (the book), especially if one is, like in Wahhabi sect, strictly Salafist/Orthodox because it is the word of God. If the organized religion is strong enough, you cannot even interpret it beyond its literal meaning. And in their literal meanings, organized religions are pretty violent.

They have to be violent to construct a contrasting image of Paradise. Hence, you have IS violence amidts all the visual images (again produced by these same people) of golden hills and crystal clear rivers (at times rivers of honey and milk) with lots and lots of wandering virgins somebody has yet to pick up.

This is what I believe what religion is.

 

[antonius123]

And do his followers practice that? Here is an example of what they did to people who disagreed with them.


Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Inquisition is purely European elite politic on disguise of religion (catholic). It is against Christian teaching, and evil in nature.

This is as what I said: human tend to abuse religion.

Also Read Mathew 10:34 to 35

Jesus also said -

34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;36and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.


These are ancient texts open to interpretation. We judge a religion by how the religious behave and Chrisitans can and have behaved pretty badly - they have killed, brutalized, enslaved, as indeed have people of other religions - I am not picking at any single group.

That means: Jesus' coming to the world will inflict conflict along the history, even war. Not because christian (Jesus follower) instructed/ teached to wage war against other people, but because there will be many people will reject Him (and the teaching) by violance, and some who claim as the Christ followers doing evil things (againts Christ/Father will), just like the inquisition you mentioned above. The history has proven that.


Mathew 7:21-23:
21. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?
23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Matthew 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So according to Jesus, not all Christian enter Heaven, only those who do the will of Father - who is in Heaven.

 

[beijingwalker]

Yes. It is Christian.
Jesus teach to love your enemy and pray for them.

The bloody history of it shows otherwise

 

[antonius123]

The bloody history of it shows otherwise

The verses above has mentioned that not all christian (who call Jesus as Lord) will do what Jesus teach / Father Will, and they will go to hell according to Jesus.

 

[William Hung]

Wow the arrogance and lack of respect shown by a lot of Chinese members in this thread is really really disgusting. The way you guys insult and disparage religion makes me understand more why the muslim Uyghurs are having issues with your PRC government.

And I find it funny how, in this thread, Chinese members have no problem blaming the world’s problems and conflicts on religion or religious issues. But back when the Xinjiang/Uyghur issues were hot topics on PDF, many Chinese members (including this one “elite” present in this thread attacking religion) tried really hard to deny that the problems between the Uyghurs and the Chinese govt was about religious issues. You were trying to paint it as a social or ethnic issue, separatists motivated by politics, etc. but here you have shown the true colors.

Look here, everyone has their own views and beliefs on religion and the universe. Theists like Christians/Muslims believe that there is a divine God, an afterlife, divine judgment, etc. Buddhist believe in Samsara, Kharma, enlightenment, etc.

Atheists will have their sets of beliefs too, that God don’t exist, no supernatural entities or afterlife, no samsara, etc. This is the view of the Chinese govt, so I’m not surprised if a lot of Chinese follow these beliefs.

The problem, as already shown here in this thread, is the arrogance and disrespectful attitudes of the Chinese govt (and lots of Chinese members in this thread) against those who holds religious beliefs. You are saying your beliefs are correct, and the beliefs of the religious people are false, so you have the rights to disparage and insult people’s religious beliefs. Just like Chinese govt policy, they think they have the rights and power to interfer and impose their own rules on religious people, such as you can’t convert or give religious education to those under 18, even if those kids are your children or friends.

In the US, and the west in general, it is different with their separation of Church and State. The church and religion generally can’t interfere with the state. At the same time, the state can’t interfere with the church or religion, they enjoy reasonable autonomy.

In China, there is no separation between Church (religion) and state, but its actually a monopoly of the state over all religion. Just like how the CCP wants to hold power and monopoly over politics, they also want to hold power and monopoly over religion. This concept has their foundation in the CCP arrogant attitude that only their views on religion and the world is correct and the beliefs of the religious people (whether they are Muslim, Christans, Buddhists, etc.) are false so the govt has the right to control and dictate how people practice their religion.

Put this altogether and one can see why the Uyghurs are having issues and conflicts with the Chinese government. And not just the muslim Uyghurs, I also see issues and conflicts between Chinese Christians, Buddhists or sects like Falun Gong with the Chinese govt. Its simply because the Chinese govt want to have a complete monopoly and control over people’s religion because they have the arrogant and disrespectful attitude that only their beliefs on religion is true and religions are false. This attitude can already be found here in postings of a lot of Chinese members.

But I bet if you talk about the Uyghurs, etc. they will say but but but the issue is not about religion, it is just some social and ethnic problems, politically motivated separatism, etc.

What hypocrites and liars these posters are.

 

[beijingwalker]

The verses above has mentioned that not all christian (who call Jesus as Lord) will do what Jesus teach / Father Will, and they will go to hell according to Jesus.

More correct form is not all humans are good.

How come China doesn't have problems with other Muslim groups? Uyghurs are not the biggest Muslim group in China. Ethnic Hui, the biggest Muslim group in China, live happily here and Uyghurs regularly attack Hui people, they believe Hui are just Han.

China does have freedom of belief law and that's true when it comes to practicing your belief,it is not so free in China. What China worries is that foreign element may use religion preaching as a hidden weapon to compromise China's security and cause internal trouble here. Check Chinese recent history ,one of the most dark chapter is when foreign powers forcibly sent tons of agents under the disgust of Christian priests and caused massive pain and suffering in China some a hundred years ago ,check "Boxing Movement". The miserable memory is still fresh and the wound is still raw.