That is a function of where you live, and who you speak to. My experience with Chinese was totally different. They not only recognized Pakistan as a friendly country but also appreciated my friendship. Of course these Chinese were from the Mainland China and studying in a top-notch US university.
From where I come from, there are millions of Chinese and few thousands of Pakistanis. There is no "bhai bhai" situation here.
Indians, sikhs and hindus, are
far more friendly than Chinese. When you meet a Chinese, they would never even ask where you're from and even if saying you're from Pakistan, they'd treat it as "where is Pakistan?" The "
hindus" come to our house, we celebrate parties together and so forth. Never had there been a Chinese coming to our house, or Chinese inviting us to their house. And NEVER in my entire life in Canada have I met anyone (Chinese), but one person 8 years ago, who knew Pakistan was a friendly nation of China.
What you mentioned, they were studying, so you met a small sect of Chinese people and they knew of Pakistan. My friend, it's time to jump out and see the bigger picture. A handful of people recognize Pakistan, great, but here, almost none know of Pakistan being "friendly" nation. Read this thread, I'm not alone. So many people mention on this thread about Chinese not knowing where Pakistan is or speak of their "zero" friendship.
Also we have a university which is top 20, not just "top notch US university." It's also the leading university for Economics and somewhat Political Science. I've been there. And there's nothing like "Pakistan China, bhai bhai."
Resources are there to be exploited and used. If not, they can lie in ground for ever while people go hungry, die of disease, and miss out on education. One can expect GoP to protect own interests and the relevant provincial governments to negotiate safeguards.
Yes, US exploiated our resources, then left us with the "nuclear waste." That is, jihadists. Now China will exploit our resources and when done, the friendship will not be the same as before. GoP will protect it only until it has vested interest. I am not sure what China will result in, as I mention later in the post that I'm not fortune teller. But it is in interest of
Pakistan to diverse its
economy than to rely on China heavily.
"Nixon encouraged China to mobilise its armed forces along its border with India to discourage it. The Chinese did not, however, respond to this encouragement, because unlike the 1962
Sino-Indian War when India was caught entirely unaware, this time the Indian Army was prepared and had deployed eight mountain divisions to the Sino-Indian border to guard against such an eventuality.China instead threw its weight behind demands for an
immediate ceasefire."
China protects its interest before its GoP. It was ready to send in soldiers and fight the Korean war, against a collation of massive army, yet it only wished to
call for immediate ceasefire when its actual ally, Pakistan, was under attack and losing the war. Why? Because it feared heavy losses and
didn't think sacrificing those soldiers was
enough for Pakistan. It fought the Korean war to stop US creeping up around its territory. But it didn't care about India, because it was a problem for Pakistan, not for China.
Back then, China had little investment in Pakistan. Today, there's much and so the Chinese protect us more than ever. But one day, the investments or interests will be nearly dried up and that day, China will provide nothing more than "ceasefire" type support. Moral of the story, when you've little interests to offer, you receive little support.
I do not know from where your cynicism comes.
From history. I don't live in mommy papa world. The world is out there to suck the nations dry, the nation have to protect themselves. Here in Canada, the gov't imposes stiff environmental costs, so Canadian companies go to South America or Africa and exploit there resources. When there is nothing left, they leave the country with a burden of environmental damages. But those countries do not understand the consequence. They're there for "immediate" money and when the countries leave, they're left with heavy environmental burder. Or with violence, as in the case of conflict minerals/diamonds.
But such may not be the case for Pakistan. So let's look at other examples. UK and US are best friends. Yet
US forced Britian/France to withdraw from Sinai, and it was forced to do so. There is another example where two powerful kingdom, goverened by cousins, fought each other. But I can't find the source, so I'll abstain from talking about it.
Now I'm not saying that China will attack us or anything close to it. What I'm saying is for us to be prepared for future and not heavily rely on China due to "all weather relationship." Here is something I said earlier in thread, which you didn't seem to notice "
You've been with China and USA for long time, where it got you? It's time to stand on your own feet and see where it takes you. "
Look and India and Russia relationship. India decided to purchase weapons from other markets, because it found them to be better and now Russia is willing to sell weapons to Pakistan, despite India reservences. Why? Because India chose it its national interest to buy weapons from European market.
Russia chose to
lift embargo because it was it its
national interest, not India's, to sell weapons and make a buck or two.
My argument is for
Pakistan to be strong and
not think that
China will be there forever. China has no sovereignty over Pakistan and there will come situations where it can do very little to protect Pakistan's interest.
. If you can not get along with a couple of Chinese should not mean that you use such derogatory language.
I didn't call China dirty underwear or something like that. If anything, I used harsher language against Pakistan (for its own betterment).
Any nation would love to do what China is doing. Had China was a US colony, (just an example), it'd have done the same to Pakistan as it needs gawadar linkage.
And who did I not get along? By arguing, it becomes "not getting along?" So we can't argue due to fear that we may not get along with a couple of other people?
It is shameful that you are willing and complicit in baiting by someone who is known for hardcore nationalist views and for getting into endless arguments with Chinese.
Oh please. Many
Indians, many
others also
agree with my idea, that we've to stop thinking of this
dillusional "all weather friendship." If an
Indian speaks such words, it's fine. If Pakistani does it,
I happen to be baiting?
People and nations live to trade and cooperate for mutual benefit. Relations between nations take this well into account. Why would Pakistan-China relations be any different?
Please read all my other posts.
My explicit argument is that Pakistan has to become strong and have
"all weather" friendly nations with others too, not rely solely on China. What Pakistan is doing with China is exactly what happened between Pakistan and USA. Such as, lending out
badaber air base (gawadar in case of China) and so forth. I'm not fortune teller to know what will happen. Indeed, bad things may not happen at all. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't be prepared. We should
diverse our economy and not play political with investments. I may not be much knowledgeable about it, but giving gawadar port to China by taking it away from singapore, which is political move.
You do NOT live in Pakistan and you have no idea how valuable those 'cheap' phones and 'cheap' toys are to an average Pakistani.
Why do
Pakistanis can't take input from expatriates? I've lived in Pakistan.
Stop jumping to conclusion just by seeing the Canadian flag. Yes those cheap phones and toys are very useful, but for example, do you know how
harmful those
toys are? Cheap made quality isn't certainly health friendly.
Toxic plastic toys may pose health hazard to young children: Consumer Council | South China Morning Post
"Parents have been warned not to let children put toys in their mouths after many were found to contain a toxic agent that could
cause liver or kidney damage."
"The Consumer Council's warning came after it found phthalates at concentrations up to
300 times the United States and European Union standards in over half the toys it tested."
Five NY Firms Charged With Importing Toxic Toys From China - ABC News
Is this happens with USA, imagine what happens with Pakistan. Those cheap cellphones and toys certainly aren't health friendly. And before you say I don't live in Pakistan, I've seen those toys and before I even knew of this "health hazard" at that age, I knew by the looks of the toys that they don't seem to be very friendly toys.
And perhaps you skipped over my other comments and cherry picked.... Remember those train engines that break so easily? Yes, I spoke about that too.
You enjoy your iPhone and your iPad, and your whatever other expensive gadgets you use, and let us poor Pakistanis manage with whatever Chinese stuff we can afford.
I use Chinese stuff too. But what I use it certainly not harmful to my health. Do you not read about US denying toys entry or Canada, because of the "ingrediaents (not sure of right word)" is harmful to health? A child's health is quite fragile.
Cynics are a-dime-a-dozen these days. I think of them as attention-seeking pests.
Yes anyone who disagree with this whole philosphy of BHAI BHAI relationship is an attention seeker.
But MR. this forums belongs to everyone. EVeryone can have a voice. Many people, as expressed on this thread, agree with my idea where Pakistan has to become independent and diverse its economy.
Also I won't be able to use my phone any longer because it's rather expensive and I pay extensive amount for my education. So stop labeling everyone "iPhone and iPad." Do you see how much bias you're? Just because I'm in Canada, it automatically means I'm some rich person and I've ego problem with Pakistan and so much others things you say about it. This is the dillusion I'm talking about. Go outside world, you'd see earning money is not easy. We have homeless people here too. We have people here, and elsewhere in the world, but Pakistan, where it's a known fact that China and Pakistan relationship isn't as great as Pakistanis living in Pakistan claim it to be. Yes, it's relationship, but the way Pakistanies sees it, it's nothing like that.
Seems like your dirty underwear is getting dirtier with this butt-burn of yours kid. Once the constipation subsides, do consider why China keeps suggesting that Pakistan improve its ties with India. Your fear of abandonment is because of your abnormal psychology, not because Chinese do not know where their strategic interest lies. If they wish to improve their relations with India, I am all in support. Chinese-Indian engagement can only be good for us, our region, and the world. One can not wish for bad relations among others for own selfish reasons.
Down to personal attacks? Yes, can't argue with me properly. You don't give examples, just a country does this, a country does that blab. Talk about my degrotary terms for China/Pakistan, but you yourself have pure attitude where insulting another forum members seems all ok, right?
One piece of advice: Grow up intellectually and emotionally, and be quick about it if you can help it.
One piece of advice, and it'd be very valuable. This forum doesn't belong to you. This world doesn't belong to you. Everyone can have their voice. You have no right to silence them because they seem stupid to you.
And please tell me, do you have extensive background in poltical science or economics to feel that you're any smarter? Because I do, and I don't run around here calling other people idiots or voicing negative comments because I don't agree with their philosophy.
And I don't need to be emotional about anything. Pakistan belongs to everyone and everyone has different view of how it should be goverened. Just because one thinks different than me doesn't mean I'm going to go and cry about it, or voice personal attacks as you did.
and please do not lock the thread by leaving your last reply or giving me another ban warning because I'm not your friend
TL\DR, Outside of Pakistan, there is little sign of 'all weather friend' attitude from China for Pakistanis.
You're entitled to your opinion, as I am. Just because I don't agree with something doesn't mean I'm the oppoiste or I've some brain issues. To say, you say pretty much all Indians have that brain issue.
) poster here was shocking for me. Especially the tone he used. But I would just like to highlight that China is loved by the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis and to see China grow to become one of the world's leading countries is something positive for us. As for the settlement with India etc., it would not change anything from our side. If it's in China's interest, then no doubt China should pursue it. I personally hope that we continue to get strategically closer and forge even better ties.
