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China, Pakistan, Islam

Genesis

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Too much has been said about the China's Islam "problem", but not many are focusing on the next part of this word puzzle, extremism and separatism. China isn't a fan of religion, that was true in the 1960s, and it's less true today. We must distingush between China against Islam, and China angainst Extremist and Separtists, who happens to be Muslim.

Case and point is that China is also against and won't hesitate to use force against Taiwan, who is ruled by a rival government that BOTH claims to be greater China, exactly like the Confederacy in the US. Taiwan is neither religious nor of a different race.

Separatism and Extremism are the focus of this campaign, it just so happens, some are using religion as a tool.

If I understand the Pakistan, middle east situation correctly, Pakistan and ME countries are also against the extremism of Islam, and certainly separatists.

The continued terriorsm inside both Pakistan and Middle East are also being fought with force, and most importantly, a lot of news I read does say Islamic countries don't recoinize ISIS or any separatists' Islam as being part of the faith.

What's also not mentioned is Uygur celebrities are also coming out in support of government efforts on anti terrorism and the intergration of the Uygur people as a whole. Uygur people's voices are not heard, part of it is because we closed it off, but it's also because they don't want to look in the big cities in Xinjiang, but only those villages that are the breading ground of extremism. If you were to just go into the South of America, you might think America is a nation of cousin kissers and Nazi worshippers.

This is a distinction often left out when certain groups try to paint China as anti Islam. We may not encourage it, but we certainly don't outlaw Islam for the other millions of followers, we have trips that bring people to the Haj every year, and we have official temples and Imans.

We have programs that bring foriegn Imans into China to teach, and we certainly have classes for people to learn their language if they choose to.

The recent banning of Burka, and the cracking down is against the separatists, and the terriorists, not against Islam in general, if that were true, we be cracking down more. remember china is 1.3 billion, we don't have a little bit of anything.

China and Pakistan relationship is bult on the foundation of mutual strategic, economic and political interests. that was true in the 60s, and it's true today. Pakistan opened the way for America and China's renewed "friendship", and China is now investing billions into Pakistan.

We have mutual disdain for terror and separatism, to say the least, which makes our goal very much the same in this field as well, to claim otherwise, you either need to prove Pakistan is not against Separatists and Terrorists, or China is against Islam as a whole rather than the specific people who are using Islam as a tool for separatism and terror.
 
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If I understand the Pakistan, middle east situation correctly, Pakistan and ME countries are also against the extremism of Islam, and certainly separatists.
@Genesis
But the problem starts when they start differentiating between terrorists --1) good terrorists & bad terrorists
2) my terrorist & their terrorists.

They usually fail to realize that a terrorist is a terrorist & should be treated like one. When they all realize this, then most of the problems in ME & Pakistan will be solved. This also requires well co-ordinated efforts by all the governments in that region instead of getting swayed by regional rivalry & sectarianism. China realized this & hence they are really effective in countering terrorism.
 
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Good post. Pakistan foreign ministry should use this exact speech later this year when China bans Ramadan fasting again.
Ban Ramadan fasting where? Why? Who? Answer those and I'll consider the validity of your "argument."

@Genesis
But the problem starts when they start differentiating between terrorists --1) good terrorists & bad terrorists
2) my terrorist & their terrorists.

They usually fail to realize that a terrorist is a terrorist & should be treated like one. When they all realize this, then most of the problems in ME & Pakistan will be solved. This also requires well co-ordinated efforts by all the governments in that region instead of getting swayed by regional rivalry & sectarianism. China realized this & hence they are really effective in countering terrorism.

As much as I want to discuss this topic, I'm not very informed on it, I don't really want to use biased information, considering the info I get is from American media, I'm going to hold off until further notice.
 
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China should understand that in order to deal with Xinjiang issue, they would have to take following things on their list.

  • India is fully funding ETIM through TTP.
  • India is funding BLA and BRA in Baluchistan. Both because they want to destabilize the corridor.
  • Repressing its minorities will NOT help China, it will make it worse.
  • They should be allowed to practice their beliefs and way of life.
  • China should replicate the same economic miracle it has pulled off in the other parts of the country.
  • China would have to win hearts and minds not territory.
  • Pakistan remains committed to one China policy, however a true friend has a responsibility to give a bitter advice at the right time....That is what our experience has taught us. We need to work together against ETIM and its financiers from R&AW. This is a mutual threat we face and our response has to be punitive, coordinated and decisive.
 
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China should understand that in order to deal with Xinjiang issue, they would have to take following things on their list.

  • India is fully funding ETIM through TTP.
  • India is funding BLA and BRA in Baluchistan. Both because they want to destabilize the corridor.
  • Repressing its minorities will NOT help China, it will make it worse.
  • They should be allowed to practice their beliefs and way of life.
  • China should replicate the same economic miracle it has pulled off in the other parts of the country.
  • China would have to win hearts and minds not territory.
  • Pakistan remains committed to one China policy, however a true friend has a responsibility to give a bitter advice at the right time....That is what our experience has taught us. We need to work together against ETIM and its financiers from R&AW. This is a mutual threat we face and our response has to be punitive, coordinated and decisive.

keep in mind UYGHURS are only a small part of our Muslim population,
National interest always is priority compared to religions interest, same with every government including many Muslim government. That is why Pakistani governmentis on the same page of anti terror cooperation with Chinese government.
regarding burqas, i invite our Pakistani friends to do a google picture search of Uryghurs and let me know how many uyghurs you see wear them,
about 2 years ago I remember seeing a PLA general during a TV interview, saying during his recent visit to Xinjiang, he noticed alot of people in black burqas which he has never seen before, so go figure where did it come from and why we banned them...

These are uryghurs look like in thier traditional dress
uyghur-girl-jpg.185188


These are not

download-jpg.185187
 
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keep in mind UYGHURS are only a small part of our Muslim population,
National interest always is priority compared to religions interest, same with every government including many Muslim government. That is why Pakistani governmentis on the same page of anti terror cooperation with Chinese government.
regarding burqas, i invite our Pakistani friends to do a google picture search of Uryghurs and let me know how many uyghurs you see wear them,
about 2 years ago I remember seeing a PLA general during a TV interview, saying during his recent visit to Xinjiang, he noticed alot of people in black burqas which he has never seen before, so go figure where did it come from and why we banned them...

These are uryghurs look like in thier traditional dress
uyghur-girl-jpg.185188


These are not

download-jpg.185187

so you are rebuffing stereotyping in the case of URYGHURS but then you post a pic of couple of burka claded girls and assume the whole of pakistani girls are like that??
how about you search pakistani and show me how many burka claded girls you see there?
 
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Ban Ramadan fasting where? Why? Who? Answer those and I'll consider the validity of your "argument."
I think non-Chinese newspapers are all liars. I found this:

China bans Ramadan fasting in Muslim province - Al Jazeera English

But since countless of these (like BBC, Telegraph and The Independent) non-Chinese media houses are liars, I don't have anything for you to consider my argument. I guess I am gonna have to accept that none of this banning has ever taken place.
 
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I think non-Chinese newspapers are all liars. I found this:

China bans Ramadan fasting in Muslim province - Al Jazeera English

But since countless of these (like BBC, Telegraph and The Independent) non-Chinese media houses are liars, I don't have anything for you to consider my argument. I guess I am gonna have to accept that none of this banning has ever taken place.
Just a question, did you understand the point of this thread? If yes, look again at what you are saying and see if there's something to be desired.
 
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Just a question, did you understand the point of this thread? If yes, look again at what you are saying and see if there's something to be desired.
Well, I did. May be you didn't understand the point of my first post on this thread that you quoted. But never mind.
 
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keep in mind UYGHURS are only a small part of our Muslim population,
National interest always is priority compared to religions interest, same with every government including many Muslim government. That is why Pakistani governmentis on the same page of anti terror cooperation with Chinese government.
regarding burqas, i invite our Pakistani friends to do a google picture search of Uryghurs and let me know how many uyghurs you see wear them,
about 2 years ago I remember seeing a PLA general during a TV interview, saying during his recent visit to Xinjiang, he noticed alot of people in black burqas which he has never seen before, so go figure where did it come from and why we banned them...

These are uryghurs look like in thier traditional dress
uyghur-girl-jpg.185188


These are not

download-jpg.185187

Though I personally believe that a woman who really really wants to protect her modesty and haya should be allowed to wear the burka if she feels there is no other way to protect her honor I also want to clarify that the Burka is not an obligatory part of Muslim culture. It is something one can vouch for but not obligatory.

Islam gives room to women who believe they should not wear the burka and can come up to their religious standards regardless.

Personally I would not like the Kalash or the uighar to wear a burka as they have a unique cultural dress they should be wearing instead of something imported from wahabi arab. This is because they have their own beautiful dress and it is a sign of increasing fundamentalism.
 
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@Genesis - Good Thread ! :tup:

When China was reeling from the after-effects of the Sino-Soviet split, was isolated in the World, didn't even sit on the UN as Taiwan represented China there, it was Pakistan that opened China up to the World, it was Pakistan that fought for China's inclusion in the UN and it was Pakistan that introduced China to the Muslim World.

Likewise in our times of need when even our so-called Muslim Brothers abandoned us; China was there for us. China kept vetoing Bangladesh's inclusion to the UN on our insistence till we got our people back who had been taken POWs and China has gone above and beyond what could be expected of her to transfer and co-develop military tech with Pakistan especially at a time when Pakistan is the Pariah State in the world.

Our bond is a Strong Bond; above religion, ethnicity or even fluctuations in international relations. May this Bond last till the End of our Days.
 
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China should understand that in order to deal with Xinjiang issue, they would have to take following things on their list.

  • India is fully funding ETIM through TTP.
  • India is funding BLA and BRA in Baluchistan. Both because they want to destabilize the corridor.
  • Repressing its minorities will NOT help China, it will make it worse.
  • They should be allowed to practice their beliefs and way of life.
  • China should replicate the same economic miracle it has pulled off in the other parts of the country.
  • China would have to win hearts and minds not territory.
  • Pakistan remains committed to one China policy, however a true friend has a responsibility to give a bitter advice at the right time....That is what our experience has taught us. We need to work together against ETIM and its financiers from R&AW. This is a mutual threat we face and our response has to be punitive, coordinated and decisive.

Lies,Lies & yet more Lies.Lets not forget who is the prime funder of terrorism in South Asia & who has waged a proxy war on it's neighbor for 25 years
 
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