China officially admitted "Red B2"!

[priti]

how about this for originality.. when human race has been and still is trying to overthrow other empires by force. Mahatma Gandhi invented non-violent resistance and threw out the most powerful empire ever in human history.
no one has ever done that. to a lesser extent mandela and MLK.

 

[Peregrine]

how about this for originality.. when human race has been and still is trying to overthrow other empires by force. Mahatma Gandhi invented non-violent resistance and threw out the most powerful empire ever in human history.
no one has ever done that. to a lesser extent mandela and MLK.

Quaid e Azam accomplished that a day earlier

 

[j20blackdragon]

And the explanation about them have been posted before. You just do not have the intelligence to understand them.

Nothing you say will change the fact that a tilted flat plate is superior to a curved surface filled with lumps and bumps.

I know you guys are jealous of the J-31.

 

[gambit]

Nothing you say will change the fact that a tilted flat plate is superior to a curved surface filled with lumps and bumps.

And here is where you are wrong. And I have no problems repeating my explanation for all readers to see how you are too dense to understand, and what are pretender you are in this discussion.

An aircraft is not a simple body. It is a collection of simple shapes whose radiation patterns interacts in ways that are not yet predictable. Therefore, as this complex structure maneuvers, a plate that is tilted in one perspective will be directly facing the radar in another perspective.

So if we look at your illustration again, one that you have no clue on what it means...

If we rotate the plate, we will produce a steady pulsating signal with when the plate is full frontal to the seeking radar we will have the highest signal strength. In radar detection, anything that is a predictable pattern is a huge no-no.

A full frontal plate will produce a much greater return than a tiny area on the sphere/cylinder.

So if we rotate the sphere/cylinder, we will produce a steady low level signal no matter which side the diameter is facing.

That is why the current 'stealth' shaping is dominantly curvatures: B-2, F-22, F-35, J-20, and the J-31. You are simply too dense to recognize it.

I know you guys are jealous of the J-31.

Jealous? Of an inferior copy?

 

[Martian2]

Flat surface is an important element of stealth

Gambit is dead wrong.

For stealth, a flat (or "faceted") surface or the alternative continuous curvature principle is extremely important for stealth. A lumpy surface is not stealthy, because it creates sources of reflection at many different angles that reflect back to the enemy emitting radar.

A flat surface is an important part of stealth design. It reflects incoming radar waves away from the transmitter/receiver on an enemy plane. A fifth-generation fighter is stealthy, because most of the radar energy has been reflected away from the enemy detector.

The issue of saw-toothed edges is a different stealth feature to address a completely different problem. Saw-toothed edges are designed to radiate energy away at different angles from the incoming incident radar waves.

In conclusion, Gambit doesn't have the faintest idea what he's talking about. Below, I have two citations to prove my point. Gambit just makes untrue claims without any reputable citations and his claims are in direct conflict with my physics explanation above and the citations below.

----------

Design News - Features - Agility+Stealth = X-36: formula for an advanced fighter

"Conventional aerospace wisdom holds that stealth and high performance--like matter and antimatter--cannot be friends. Gains in one area usually lead to sacrifices in the other.

Take, for example, the F-117 stealth fighter of Gulf War fame. Its sharp edges, abrupt angles, and flat surfaces deflect radar waves to deliver impressive stealth--while simultaneously flouting the laws of aerodynamics. Though amazing for its time, the F-117's subsonic, non-aerobatic capabilities emphasize invisibility over agility. By contrast, there's the F-16, a sexy-sleek, supersonic air-superiority fighter possessed of outstanding maneuverability--and a quite noticeable radar signature."

The Chengdu J-20: Peace in Our Time?

"Engineers and Scientists who work in ‘stealth’ (AKA ‘Low Observable&#8217 designs have a way for explaining it to lay people: ‘Stealth’ is achieved by Shaping, Shaping, Shaping and Materials (Denys Overholser).

The F-22A is clearly well shaped for low observability above about 500 MHz, and from all important aspects. The J-20 has observed the ‘Shaping, Shaping, Shaping’ imperative, except for the axisymmetric nozzles, and some curvature of the sides that smears a strong, but very narrow specular return into something of a more observable fan. The X-35 mostly observed the ‘Shaping, Shaping, Shaping’ rule, but since then, to quote a colleague, ‘hideous lumps, bumps, humps and warts’ have appeared on the JSF to disrupt the shaping imperative, forcing excessive reliance on materials, which are at the rear-end of the path to ‘Low Observability’."

 

[gambit]

Flat surface is an important element of stealth

Gambit is dead wrong.

No. YOU have a false understanding of the technology in the first place. Made even worse by your lack of relevant experience.

For stealth, flat (or "faceted") surfaces or continuous curvature is extremely important for stealth. A lumpy surface is not stealthy, because it creates sources of reflection at many different angles that reflect back to the enemy emitting radar.

A 'lumpy surface' contains curvatures. So your argument make no technical sense. As usual.

A flat surface is an important part of stealth design. It reflects incoming radar waves away from the transmitter/receiver on an enemy plane. A fifth-generation fighter is stealthy, because most of the radar energy has been reflected away from the enemy detector.

A 'canted' plate reflects away from source position. Not the plate by itself.

The issue of saw-toothed edges is a different stealth feature to address a completely different problem. Saw-toothed edges are designed to radiate energy away at different angles from the incoming incident radar waves.

In conclusion, Gambit doesn't have the faintest idea what he's talking about. Below, I have two citations to prove my point. Gambit just makes untrue claims without any reputable citations and his claims are in direct conflict with my physics explanation above and the citations below.

My 18+ yrs in avionics, in and out of the military, gives me a better understanding of your sources than you can gleam from them.

 

[priti]

Quaid e Azam accomplished that a day earlier

he threatened civil war, cause Direct action day bloodshed and created a mess called www.*.pk

 

[Martian2]

No. YOU have a false understanding of the technology in the first place. Made even worse by your lack of relevant experience.

A 'lumpy surface' contains curvatures. So your argument make no technical sense. As usual.

A 'canted' plate reflects away from source position. Not the plate by itself.

My 18+ yrs in avionics, in and out of the military, gives me a better understanding of your sources than you can gleam from them.

Gambit is clueless

I provided a physics explanation to describe the importance of flat surfaces for stealth aircraft design. In addition, I provided two reputable citations to prove my point.

Gambit replies with nothing. He only has rhetoric. He has no physics explanation or citations.

Also, he's delusional. What does avionics have to do with stealth design? The guy's a nut.

 

[gambit]

Gambit is clueless

I provided a physics explanation to describe the importance of flat surfaces for stealth aircraft design. In addition, I provided two reputable citations to prove my point.

Gambit replies with nothing. He only has rhetoric. He has no physics explanation or citations. Also, he's delusional. What does avionics have to do with stealth design? The guy's a nut.

First...YOU learned the proper form of debate from me because I often proved you wrong with my own sources, such as this one about Physical Optics and the 10-lambda rule, for example...

The above paper supports my arguments about curvatures very well. Too bad your lack of relevant experience does not allow you to see how.

Second...I have exposed the flaws of the APA so called 'analysis' to the readers, the same flaws that you glossed over when even APA had to admit themselves.

And third...You have a flawed understanding of what avionics entails. That says it all...

 

[Martian2]

First...YOU learned the proper form of debate from me because I often proved you wrong with my own sources, such as this one about Physical Optics and the 10-lambda rule, for example...

The above paper supports my arguments about curvatures very well. Too bad your lack of relevant experience does not allow you to see how.

Second...I have exposed the flaws of the APA so called 'analysis' to the readers, the same flaws that you glossed over when even APA had to admit themselves.

And third...You have a flawed understanding of what avionics entails. That says it all...

Flat surfaces are an integral part of stealth design

I could use Google to provide ten reputable citations to prove flat surfaces are an integral part of stealth design. However, there is no need. I have already provided two citations and a physics explanation.

You only have hot air. I have proven my point and won the debate.

I simply don't have the time or inclination to debunk your crackpot claims. I've had enough of your nonsense and the debate ends here. You had your chance to provide a competing physics explanation and reputable sources to buttress your argument. You have failed.

Gee, I wonder why the F-117 Nighthawk was stealthy. Could it be due to all those flat surfaces?

 

[gambit]

Flat surfaces are an integral part of stealth design

I could use Google to provide ten reputable citations to prove flat surfaces are an integral part of stealth design. However, there is no need. I have already provided two citations and a physics explanation.

You only have hot air. I proven my point and won the debate.

It is not flat surfaces, you fool. It is their ORIENTATION OR CANT ANGLE with respect to incident approach.

And finally, if you really insist on talking about flat surfaces...

Do note: This means that the flat plate would produce a response some 12000 times greater than the sphere...

The flat plate is actually inferior than the curvature ON A COMPLEX BODY.

Would the Chinese moderator step in and delete my posts to save his fellow countrymen from embarrassment?

 

[dbc]

It is not flat surfaces, you fool. It is their ORIENTATION OR CANT ANGLE with respect to incident approach.

And finally, if you really insist on talking about flat surfaces...

Do note: This means that the flat plate would produce a response some 12000 times greater than the sphere...

The flat plate is actually inferior than the curvature ON A COMPLEX BODY.

Oh no you didn't ! Now prepare to face the wrath of Chinese physics...

 

[gambit]

Gee, I wonder why the F-117 Nighthawk was stealthy. Could it be due to all those flat surfaces?

And the -117 is far inferior to the F-22 and F-35 in terms of all other things aerodynamics. Too bad your lack of relevant experience missed that oh-so-important factor that compelled the secondary importance of the plate ON A COMPLEX BODY.

Oh no you didn't ! Now prepare to face the wrath of Chinese physics...

More like deletion of my posts. The Chinese members here have nothing to worry about. They will be saved.

 

[Sergi]

You only have hot air. I have proven my point and won the debate.

I don't think so. It look more like @gambit is embarrassing you with factual posts and you are replying with personal insults and so called "physics explanation" which I failed to sight.

That actually mean you didn't win. Try harder to win and let audience decide who's correct. Put some sources.
And please change the flags

 

[dbc]

More like deletion of my posts. The Chinese members here have nothing to worry about. They will be saved.

ah! well just let them continue to believe in their miracle weapons.