China nears approval of $16 billion domestic jet-engine plan: Xinhua

[kalu_miah]

@Beast and @shuttler, thanks for answering my questions.

It looks like J10B is the only possible option, but not available yet and time frame for availability is still not known.

How about JF17 or FC-1, I think its a joint development between Pakistan and China and its already in production. If Pakistan agrees, will China agree to its sale of the Chinese version, FC-1, to Bangladesh with Chinese engine WS-13?

CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Guizhou WS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[shuttler]

Bangladesh airforce flying J-7MB

Bangladesh top brasses visiting our airbase

Bangladesh army studying the Pi-li （Thunderbolt）air-to-air missile

 

[shuttler]

@Beast and @shuttler, thanks for answering my questions.

It looks like J10B is the only possible option, but not available yet and time frame for availability is still not known.

How about JF17 or FC-1, I think its a joint development between Pakistan and China and its already in production. If Pakistan agrees, will China agree to its sale of the Chinese version, FC-1, to Bangladesh with Chinese engine WS-13?

CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Guizhou WS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regarding your questions hereunder is what I've found (google translated

为了抑制竞争对手，为中国“枭龙”战斗机提供“心脏”的俄罗斯厂商——切尼谢夫莫斯科机器制造联合体在接受俄罗斯国内和国际媒体采访时多次表示，不允许中国向任何俄罗斯战机购买国出售“枭龙”战斗机，其中最典型的例子是，由于俄罗斯担心破坏俄印军售关系才禁止向巴基斯坦，也禁止中国向巴基斯坦提供该厂生产的RD—93型发动机，所以FC—1遭遇很大的麻烦。

切尼谢夫莫斯科机器制造联合体的发言人在接受采访时表示，根据当初中俄双方签署的原始合同“没有获得俄方的特别许可，中国不得将RD-93发动机出口到任何第三国”，另外，中国也不得向任何俄战机购买潜在对象出口装有RD-93发动机的战斗机。

为此，“枭龙”战斗机配备的RD-93发动机将被替代，而中国的WS-13“天山”发动机最有可能成为替换RD-93的一款发动机。

据俄罗斯《生意人报》2007年11月20日报道，俄将允许中国为巴基斯坦的FC-1战机装配RD-93发动机。

中国 WS-13泰山发动机已经在2010年3月18日配装枭龙战机首次滑跑成功，可能已经完成首飞，后续的天山发动机也在稳步推进。

根据俄罗斯《生意人报》的报道，俄联邦军事技术合作局允许RD-93型号发动机随中国FC-1战斗机出口到6个国家，包括巴基斯坦、埃及、尼日利亚、孟加拉、沙特阿拉伯王国和阿尔及利亚，但是《生意人报》的消息并不一定准确，这个名单只能作为参考。这6个都是伊斯兰教国家，估计主要是巴基斯坦在负责推销。除此之外，中国武器传统外销国还有坦桑尼亚、赞比亚、苏丹等国，南美的委内瑞拉、秘鲁也可能采购FC-1，但这方面没有任何相关新闻报道。

Xiaolong fighter in order to suppress competitors, the "heart" of the Russian manufacturers - Cheney Ziv the Moscow Machine Manufacturing Commonwealth repeatedly said in an interview with Russia's domestic and international media interviews, and does not allow China to any Russian planesbuy sold in the country "Fierce Dragon" fighter, one of the most typical examples, Russia worried about the destruction of Russian-Indian military relationship prohibited to Pakistan, is also prohibited in China to provide Pakistan with the RD-93 engines produced by the plant, so the FC-1 encounter a lot of trouble.

Cheney Jeff Moscow the machine manufacturing Commonwealth spokesman said in an interview, did not get special permission from Russia, according to the original Russian sides signed the original contract "shall RD-93 engines exported to any third country, In addition, China also may not purchase the export of potential objects to any Russian fighter equipped with the RD-93 engine fighter.

To this end, the "Fierce Dragon" fighter equipped with the RD-93 engines will be replaced by the Chinese WS-13 "Tianshan" engine most likely to become an engine to replace the RD-93.

According to Russia's "Kommersant" reported on November 20, 2007, Russia will allow China to Pakistan's FC-1 fighter assembly RD-93 engines.

China WS-13 Taishan engine has been fitted in March 18, 2010, the Xiaolong aircraft for the first time roll success may have completed its first flight, the follow-up of the the Tianshan engine also steadily advancing.

According to Russia's "Kommersant" reported, the military-technical cooperation of the Russian Federation Council to allow the RD-93 type engines with China's FC-1 fighter aircraft exports to the six countries, including Pakistan, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria, but the "Kommersant message is not necessarily accurate, this list only as a reference. 6 are Islamic countries, it is estimated that Pakistan is responsible for marketing. In addition, traditional Chinese weapons export country, Tanzania, Zambia, Sudan and other countries, South America, Venezuela, Peru may also procurement FC-1, but this is no news reports.

 

[UKBengali]

1. not immediately
2. yes, but not immediately
3. 20 years at least
4. we always sell our weapons at more than reasonable prices with great qualities
Check out our J7 exported to many countries and compare that with the flight history of your neighours' fleet.
We have just delivered some upgraded J-7s to Bangladesh.
5. yes. We are a weapon trader. J10x will be exported but not anytime soon.

Thank you for your interest!

Surely you don't actually mean 20 years before J-11X fighters are exported?

Not sure who would be interested in 4th generation fighters in the 2030s.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Surely you don't actually mean 20 years before J-11X fighters are exported?

Not sure who would be interested in 4th generation fighters in the 2030s.

You'd be surprised.

Many African Air Forces only recently acquired 3rd generation fighters (like the later J-7 variants). Not many countries could afford 5th gen. fighters in the foreseeable future.

 

[kalu_miah]

Regarding your questions hereunder is what I've found (google translated

Let me see if I understood the translation correctly:

1. Since India is Russia's biggest defense customer, RD-93 (a Russian engine) fitted FC-1 has export restriction, but Russia allows export to 6 "Islamic" countries Pakistan, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria. This statement sounds kind of contradictory to me, because India's biggest adversary is Pakistan. If it can go to Pakistan despite India's concern, it can pretty much go to anyone else, no? And Pakistan already has taken delivery of 42 JF-17, some are in service and some are getting equipped as of 2011:
CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. If Chinese engine WS-13 is used for FC-1, then above export restriction of RD-93 due to India's concern is no longer an issue. Correct?

3. The report also says Pakistan will be responsible for marketing to 6 "Islamic" countries. Does this mean that they will have to be assembled in Pakistan, or just that Pakistan will get some profit share, due to Pakistan's investment on joint development of this plane?

 

[Akasa]

I had a few questions:

1. Is China ready to sell Chinese alternatives for Su-27 (J11xx) and Su-30 (J16) with Chinese engines?
2. Are they available for countries such as Bangladesh, Myanmar etc.?
3. If not how many years till they become available?
4. Are these planes with Chinese engines cheaper than Russian alternatives?
5. How about J10x, are these available with Chinese engines for sale to these countries?

1. They can (and it's perfectly legal since the J-11B and J-16 incorporates all Chinese systems and workings), but they risk
running into diplomatic quarrels with Russia (since the latter claim that the airframe design was copied)
2. The engines certainly are. The aircraft will be once the Chinese starts mass producing J-16 and J-15.
3. Depends on which engine.
4. Depends on the planes asked.
5. Definitely, once mass production of J-10B starts.

 

[shuttler]

Surely you don't actually mean 20 years before J-11X fighters are exported?

Not sure who would be interested in 4th generation fighters in the 2030s.

I assume the flag you are bearing is true. We are still selling 2nd gen airplanes which was developed in the 60s.

 

[shuttler]

Let me see if I understood the translation correctly:

1. Since India is Russia's biggest defense customer, RD-93 (a Russian engine) fitted FC-1 has export restriction, but Russia allows export to 6 "Islamic" countries Pakistan, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria. This statement sounds kind of contradictory to me, because India's biggest adversary is Pakistan. If it can go to Pakistan despite India's concern, it can pretty much go to anyone else, no? And Pakistan already has taken delivery of 42 JF-17, some are in service and some are getting equipped as of 2011:
CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. If Chinese engine WS-13 is used for FC-1, then above export restriction of RD-93 due to India's concern is no longer an issue. Correct?

3. The report also says Pakistan will be responsible for marketing to 6 "Islamic" countries. Does this mean that they will have to be assembled in Pakistan, or just that Pakistan will get some profit share, due to Pakistan's investment on joint development of this plane?

the inidan factor is true. There was a later compromise between Russia and our negotiators I think which helped relax the production in Pakistan.

If WS-13 is ready, it is a great encouragement of our joint effort to market JF-17 to the world. the indian factor will become a non-issue. Russians will not be feeling embarrassed.

 

[UKBengali]

I assume the flag you are bearing is true. We are still selling 2nd gen airplanes which was developed in the 60s.

Why would my flag be untrue?

I am not trying to mock China or the J-11 but am just querying that anyone would be interested in 4th generation aircraft in the 2030s. Someone did answer there may be interest by African countries but I doubt BD would be interested by then.

 

[Luftwaffe]

[MENTION=37014]How about JF17 or FC-1, I think its a joint development between Pakistan and China and its already in production. If Pakistan agrees, will China agree to its sale of the Chinese version, FC-1, to Bangladesh with Chinese engine WS-13?

You current government is pro hindustan, they favored F-7BGI in the name of low funds and delayed the modernization program a decade more terming it "stop gap". Pakistan never refused it is Bangladesh that refused to look into it.

I Think in the next 10-12 Years you will only see F-7BGI, Mig-29 upgraded and perhaps additional 8 migs with a squadron of Yak-130/133...

 

[shuttler]

Why would my flag be untrue?

I am not trying to mock China or the J-11 but am just querying that anyone would be interested in 4th generation aircraft in the 2030s. Someone did answer there may be interest by African countries but I doubt BD would be interested by then.

you didnt seem to have read the posts above this! But regardless of reading or not reading you dont seem to be aware of the BD's military affairs

 

[kalu_miah]

You current government is pro hindustan, they favored F-7BGI in the name of low funds and delayed the modernization program a decade more terming it "stop gap". Pakistan never refused it is Bangladesh that refused to look into it.

I Think in the next 10-12 Years you will only see F-7BGI, Mig-29 upgraded and perhaps additional 8 migs with a squadron of Yak-130/133...

10-12 years is a long time. Many things can happen, Bangladesh may not be under a pro-India govt., in one year or at the latest 6 years. We have election every five years and one coming up on Jan. 24, 2014.

Once we no longer have a pro-India govt., is it possible for us to purchase export versions JF-17/FC-1 and J10b, in your opinion?

Also, are you saying that Bangladesh purchase was intentionally downgraded from JF-17 and J10b to F-7BGI (and some Russian crafts), because of possible Indian concerns of Bangladesh getting advanced Chinese tech and developing a good sourcing relationship between BAF and Chinese military industries? This could be a huge accusation of subverting national interest against current pro-India AL govt. if it can be proven without a doubt.

Since China has already developed indigenous engines, the tech level is rising steeply every year due to large internal market and investment in R&D. This Chinese tech is cheaper than comparable tech from Russia and the after service from China is a lot better than after service from Russia. I think it should be a national priority for Bangladesh to move away from any Russian fighter plane platform and solely invest in Chinese platforms ready for export like JF-17/FC-1 and J10b.

 

[UKBengali]

you didnt seem to have read the posts above this! But regardless of reading or not reading you dont seem to be aware of the BD's military affairs

Really. Enlighten me of what I seem not be aware of?

@kalu_miah - one possible explanation for not going for the JF-17 may be the fact that the WS-13 engine is still not ready.

Another possible reason is that it is one of the least advanced 4th generation fighters and cannot be compared to Mig-29, SU=27/30 or J-10 warplanes and BD does not think that it is sufficiently good enough to be serving till the 2040s.

 

[kalu_miah]

Really. Enlighten me of what I seem not be aware of?

@kalu_miah - one possible explanation for not going for the JF-17 may be the fact that the WS-13 engine is still not ready.

Another possible reason is that it is one of the least advanced 4th generation fighters and cannot be compared to Mig-29, SU=27/30 or J-10 warplanes and BD does not think that it is sufficiently good enough to be serving till the 2040s.

JF-17/FC-1 was not supposed to replace Su-27/30, we could easily purchase this instead of the "stop gap" obsolete F7-BG. We could look at J10b as a replacement for Su-27/30.

WS-13 is ready as far as I can tell from this wiki entry:
Guizhou WS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China began development of the Taishan in 2000 to replace the Klimov RD-93 turbofan, which had been selected in the 1990s to power the JF-17 light-weight fighter. It is designed to have a life span of 2,200 hours and an improved version, providing around 100 kN (22,450 lb) of thrust with afterburner, is under development.[1]
The WS-13 Taishan was certified in 2007 and serial production began in 2009.[citation needed] The 18 March 2010 edition of the HKB report stated that a FC-1 equipped with the WS-13 completed its first successful runway taxi test.[2]
Officials at the Farnborough International Airshow in August 2010 stated that a JF-17 development aircraft is flying with a Chinese engine, which is most likely to be the WS-13.[3]