China leaves US trailing in race to build warships，Beijing’s shipbuilding capacity 230 times greater than American yards, US intelligence admits

[Han Patriot]

How about Because Ray Mabus - SecNAV, said so?

SECNAV unveils new name for LCS: the 'fast frigate'

New Freedom- and Independence-class ships will now be christened as "fast frigates." Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said.

www.navytimes.com

SECNAV unveils new name for LCS: the 'fast frigate'​

And then he WAS WRONG ONCE Again ( Really am not surprised)

Six Littoral Combat Ships to Deploy by Year's End as Navy Continues to Refine Operations - USNI News

The Navy will have six Littoral Combat Ships deployed by the end of the year – a record for the program, several Navy officials have confirmed to USNI News. Later this year, two Independence-class LCS will join USS Tulsa (LCS-16) and USS Charleston (LCS-18) in the Western Pacific. The two ships...

news.usni.org

View attachment 951159

Yes a name change, so they weren't Frigates in the first place right? Lolol

 

[jhungary]

Yes a name change, so they weren't Frigates in the first place right? Lolol

The question is not were they, the question is "ARE" they.

Again, name is not important. You can call it whatever you want. And it wasn't a "Frigate" before 2015 it is now, then what? Does that mean they aren't Frigate?

 

[Han Patriot]

The question is not were they, the question is "ARE" they.

Again, name is not important. You can call it whatever you want. And it wasn't a "Frigate" before 2015 it is now, then what? Does that mean they aren't Frigate?

You wouldn't need to do a name change if they were frigates right? Fine let's accept this pseudo frigate, you are still not answering the main question, how does 'sea control' a fleet concept suddenly become a ship concept and how does it make you know thr 076 is below 60k. Stop diverting the attention, i have caught you lying and bullshiting multiple times.

 

[jhungary]

You wouldn't need to do a name change if they were frigates right? Fine let's accept this pseudo frigate, you are still not answering the main question, how does 'sea control' a fleet concept suddenly become a ship concept and how does it make you know thr 076 is below 60k. Stop diverting the attention, i have caught you lying and bullshiting multiple times.

Sea Control means you need to dominate the area you are at. It's not area specific like you said because Sea is too big, nobody can control them at all, also unlike land, you cannot "capture" the sea or SLOC, which mean whenever your operation is over, and you leave the area, you "relinquish" control of the sea you are at.

Which mean there are 2 school of thoughts here.

1.) Sea Control is Temporary, but constant, it means every ship at sea control a part of the sea
2.) Sea Control is not constant but Intentional, ie you contest that part of the sea for whatever reason.

And What I mean is thought 1. Each ship controls some part of the sea by scanning the area and trying to dominate said area they are at, and the ability to control the sea with particular ships vary, a well-stocked Aircraft Carrier with Fighter, Bomber and Anti-Sub support can dominate EVERY ASPECT of the sea, be it Surface, Subsurface or Air. While a Coast Guard cutter can dominate surface by laying mine and denied the other party sea control

That is the basic concept of sea control. If you do not understand this, that's you.

 

[Han Patriot]

Sea Control means you need to dominate the area you are at. It's not area specific like you said because Sea is too big, nobody can control them at all, also unlike land, you cannot "capture" the sea or SLOC, which mean whenever your operation is over, and you leave the area, you "relinquish" control of the sea you are at.

Which mean there are 2 school of thoughts here.

1.) Sea Control is Temporary, but constant, it means every ship at sea control a part of the sea
2.) Sea Control is not constant but Intentional, ie you contest that part of the sea for whatever reason.

And What I mean is thought 1. Each ship controls some part of the sea by scanning the area and trying to dominate said area they are at, and the ability to control the sea with particular ships vary, a well-stocked Aircraft Carrier with Fighter, Bomber and Anti-Sub support can dominate EVERY ASPECT of the sea, be it Surface, Subsurface or Air. While a Coast Guard cutter can dominate surface by laying mine and denied the other party sea control

That is the basic concept of sea control. If you do not understand this, that's you.

You are not answering anything, I asked you how sea control a fleet concept is applied to a single ship class and how it affects the guesstimate of your tonnage of tha ship. Answer please, stop ranting.

 

[jhungary]

You are not answering anything, I asked you how sea control a fleet concept is applied to a single ship class and how it affects the guesstimate of your tonnage of tha ship. Answer please, stop ranting.

LOL, whatever dude,

see control are "Area Dependent"

lol

 

[Han Patriot]

LOL, whatever dude,

see control are "Area Dependent"

lol

Don't argue with me. Argue with the definition. Here i even highlight for you. Remember your LNG debacle? 48% export gdp? Ship tracking without AIS? Lolol. How many times have I dissected you?

 

[jhungary]

Don't argue with me. Argue with the definition. Here i even highlight for you. Remember your LNG debacle? 48% export gdp? Ship tracking without AIS? Lolol. How many times have I dissected you?
View attachment 951389

Well, go argue with US Navy then, way better than to argue with Wikipedia

https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1710&context=nwc-review

 

[Han Patriot]

Well, go argue with US Navy then, way better than to argue with Wikipedia

https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1710&context=nwc-review

Didn't answer anything mate.

 

[jhungary]

Didn't answer anything mate.

My answer is, my source is USN and US Naval College, your source is Wikipedia.

 

[FuturePAF]

The 076 is a drone carrier, 076 only 65,000 tons, it is responsible for taking off and landing large drones, not the J35.

This source claims 50-55k tons.
9:42

Considering the America Class LHA weighs 45k tons, unless the Type 076 is going to be much larger and not just the addition of the angled flight deck, the 50-55k estimate is probably more likely, in my amateur opinion.

USS America (LHA-6) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Btw, any chance the aft starboard elevator will be moved to the port side, no creating a larger parking space on the aft Starbord side? It could help have more aircraft on deck and able to generate more sorties in a shorter period of time.

Second BTW, is the island going to be redesigned?, the promotional poster (as seen in the first video of this post) from jiangnan showed a Type 003 style island.

 

[Han Patriot]

My answer is, my source is USN and US Naval College, your source is Wikipedia.

And what does it say? That sea control is not area specific?

 

[jhungary]

And what does it say? That sea control is not area specific?

It said the threat are constant.

I mean name me one part of the sea, any part, where sub cannot go to, surface ship cannot go, cannot have aircraft flying over?

Because if every, i mean EVERY part of the sea are allowing these 3 domain, what is the point to specify the area to begin with when wherever you go you face the same threat.

 

[Han Patriot]

It said the threat are constant.

I mean name me one part of the sea, any part, where sub cannot go to, surface ship cannot go, cannot have aircraft flying over?

Because if every, i mean EVERY part of the sea are allowing these 3 domain, what is the point to specify the area to begin with when wherever you go you face the same threat.

Yoh still don't get it do you? US navy operates globally, that's why they assume they have 'sea control' over a particular area. What you think ships can just fly over to another new geographical area? It takes them days and weeks to arrive at another new area. Hence, you have certain fleets for certain areas. That's the concept of sea control. You don't just build 100 ships and asssume you have global sea control. You have global sea control by basing it globally and be the dominant power there. Imagine if US has only 20 ships in their particular geography, and China has 100 ships there, then sea control of that area belongs to China, even though US might have 1000 ships in the Atlantic. Get it numb numb? This is just common logics.

 

[jhungary]

Yoh still don't get it do you? US navy operates globally, that's why they assume they have 'sea control' over a particular area. What you think ships can just fly over to another new geographical area? It takes them days and weeks to arrive at another new area. Hence, you have certain fleets for certain areas. That's the concept of sea control. You don't just build 100 ships and asssume you have global sea control. You have global sea control by basing it globally and be the dominant power there. Imagine if US has only 20 ships in their particular geography, and China has 100 ships there, then sea control of that area belongs to China, even though US might have 1000 ships in the Atlantic. Get it numb numb?

First of all, NO ONE HAVE ANY CONTROL OF THE SEA. there are no "assumption" that anyone have any control of the sea, territorial water yes, not in the sea (sea mean high ocean). That is the entire issue here, as the Naval War college piece point out. You can only have sea control the sea by having force directly above the sea that you want to control, because unlike land, you cannot "Capture" any part of the sea and make it yours.

Which mean if you want to control the sea, your fleet (or whatever you use) would have to actively esert control, and that by dominate the 3 domain, sub-surface, surface and air in that particular area in the sea, and regardless of the area, the domain ARE THE SAME. Hence I ask you a question in which part of the sea a sub cannot go, or a surface ship cannot go, or aircraft cannot travel above.

If US want to control the sea around China, then whether or not it is North in Qingdao or South near Hainan, that force the US deployed to control an area WOULD HAVE FACE THE SAME THREAT. Even if you extend the line of Chinese defences to Sea of Japan, IT WILL STILL REMAIN THE SAME DOMAIN, unless you are telling me Chinese sub or surface ship or aircraft magically be barred from entering the sea of Japan. Which render your "Area Specific" pointless, because EVERYWHERE ARE THE SAME.

So it's you who don't get it.