China launches three warships in one day, China breaks the world record in the number of Destroyers commissioned in one year

[Ali_Baba]

world war 2's destroyers aren't the same thing as today, so does those wooden carrier.

They are the same in that they reflect the industrial and technological capabilties of the time .

 

[mike2000 is back]

Same. I did not like place anyways. PDF is much more neutral and better.

Have to agree in this one . Had a look there by coincidence one day and was surprised by how biased and even racist (alot of derogatory name calling of advesaries) most members there turned out to be. Didn't even know there was an Indian defence forum before until I stumbled on one by coincidence one day. Guess it explains why it's made of 99% Indians I guess. Not conducive for others neutral parties per se.

1.3% of GDP on military is too low considering the threats China faces from US, Japan, India, Australia. Should be around 3% of GDP.

Guess because the leadership knows there is no real threat of war , and the country is building mostly its deterence to prevent one in the first place. Their priority is Taiwan and for that they don't need a 3% defence budget. Maybe you might say Taiwan makes the leadership to be locally minded and not international, but then again the country is still divided and not United yet(The only major power to still be divided since the end of WWII). So their focus has always been local/internal. Moreover, its not the wrong thing to do by focusing more on economy as well for a developing country.

 

[Stranagor]

Have to agree in this one . Had a look there by coincidence one day and was surprised by how biased and even racist (alot of derogatory name calling of advesaries) most members there turned out to be. Didn't even know there was an Indian defence forum before until I stumbled on one by coincidence one day. Guess it explains why it's made of 99% Indians I guess. Not conducive for others neutral parties per se.

Guess because the leadership knows there is no real threat of war , and the country is building mostly its deterence to prevent one in the first place. Their priority is Taiwan and for that they don't need a 3% defence budget. Maybe you might say Taiwan makes the leadership to be locally minded and not international, but then again the country is still divided and not United yet(The only major power to still be divided since the end of WWII). So their focus has always been local/internal. Moreover, its not the wrong thing to do by focusing more on economy as well for a developing country.

Also efficiency must be considered. US military is like US healthcare. So many perks, so many interests. Things get unnecessarily bloated up.

 

[beijingwalker]

Have to agree in this one . Had a look there by coincidence one day and was surprised by how biased and even racist (alot of derogatory name calling of advesaries) most members there turned out to be. Didn't even know there was an Indian defence forum before until I stumbled on one by coincidence one day. Guess it explains why it's made of 99% Indians I guess. Not conducive for others neutral parties per se.

A circle jerk forum

 

[XVIV]

China's manufacturing ability is the 8th wonder of the world. I remember seeing it put up COVID hospitals in record time and being just astonished at the speed of it all. Central planning works.

 

[tower9]

Have to agree in this one . Had a look there by coincidence one day and was surprised by how biased and even racist (alot of derogatory name calling of advesaries) most members there turned out to be. Didn't even know there was an Indian defence forum before until I stumbled on one by coincidence one day. Guess it explains why it's made of 99% Indians I guess. Not conducive for others neutral parties per se.

Guess because the leadership knows there is no real threat of war , and the country is building mostly its deterence to prevent one in the first place. Their priority is Taiwan and for that they don't need a 3% defence budget. Maybe you might say Taiwan makes the leadership to be locally minded and not international, but then again the country is still divided and not United yet(The only major power to still be divided since the end of WWII). So their focus has always been local/internal. Moreover, its not the wrong thing to do by focusing more on economy as well for a developing country.

There is no rush for unification with Taiwan. Taiwan is not likely to declare formal independence because that would be a suicidal move and they would have to overhaul their constitution to do that, so there would be a myriad of legal challenges that would stall the entire process.

BTW the reason why PDF is an interesting place is that you truly get a very diverse range of views, backgrounds, etc that balances each other out. It's actually quite spectacular that they achieved it in this little website when you don't even get that diversity on huge platforms like Reddit for example.

 

[PakFactor]

Have to agree in this one . Had a look there by coincidence one day and was surprised by how biased and even racist (alot of derogatory name calling of advesaries) most members there turned out to be. Didn't even know there was an Indian defence forum before until I stumbled on one by coincidence one day. Guess it explains why it's made of 99% Indians I guess. Not conducive for others neutral parties per se.

Guess because the leadership knows there is no real threat of war , and the country is building mostly its deterence to prevent one in the first place. Their priority is Taiwan and for that they don't need a 3% defence budget. Maybe you might say Taiwan makes the leadership to be locally minded and not international, but then again the country is still divided and not United yet(The only major power to still be divided since the end of WWII). So their focus has always been local/internal. Moreover, its not the wrong thing to do by focusing more on economy as well for a developing country.

Thank God you made it out of there, lol.

As the other poster said China isn't on a war path footing, they just need to grow their talent pool and allocate funds where it counts for long term growth.

 

[Abid123]

1.3% of GDP on military is too low considering the threats China faces from US, Japan, India, Australia. Should be around 3% of GDP.

I agree with you. Should be 3% of the GDP.

 

[Shotgunner51]

China’s well-oiled military machine launches three warships in one day

This is not new, back in April three warships were also commissioned in one day: 075 LHD, 055 DDG, 094 SSBN, it was a nice scene.

But perhaps the most interesting thing about the event is that three or four more 094 SSBN were spotted in the background, what a pleasant surprise for observers!

 

[QWECXZ]

According to Indians IN is superior Go check their defence forum lmao...

Can you please tell me how I can find their defense forum? Pretty please? I'm sure it must be quite fun.
If it's censored on PDF, try to write it in base64 or something.

 

[lcloo]

Yes your are correct, defense spend is indeed very low (1.248% of GDP to be exact), almost lowest among all major industrialized economies, and such thin budget is spread across many departments like PLASSF, PLARF so imagine how little is left for conventional forces! But I don't see any need to increase:

1. So far investment is more on capitalizing advanced capabilities (i.e. build a pool of tech reserve and talent) instead of expensing on active duty numbers, current budget level is doing very well.
2. Purchasing power of 1+ trillion RMB isn't too bad when spend internally, nominal exchange rate is only meaningful cross-border.
3. Even in case an unexpected war does erupt, we can ramp up temporary budgets easily given strong national reserves, and some of our gigantic commercial-industrial capacity is always ready to be repurposed for war needs.

A low defence spend helps to balance our day-to-day financials, and that's critically important to national security in the long run.

"Purchasing power of 1+ trillion RMB isn't too bad when spend internally, nominal exchange rate is only meaningful cross-border." Well said! Defense budget spend domestically are more cost efficient than spend heavily on expensive imported weapons.

Other than PPP factor, this is a major cause why China's defence budget is low in GDP percentage when compare with US and the rest of the World.

Western arms manufacturers are big money making machines, with high total cost plus high profit margins, their weapons per unit are certain more expensive, also their salaries, training costs, etc are also relative expensive per unit compare with China.

Chinese arms manufacturers are state owned, their profit margins can be as low as 6% to 10%, compare with 50% to 100% of the West. As state owned entreprises they do not make big fat profits from from their owner, which is the government of China.

Therefore China's 1.3% defense budget is equivalent to more than 2% of US, or even more.

Also, since arms manufacturing is money making machine in USA, these manufacturers are "hiring" top generals, admirals and congress people to push for more defense budget every year, and looking for wars and conflicts around the World. You can see that the neocon hawks are very strong in the US congress.

 

[serenity]

Maybe a lot has to do with how development costs are accounted. This stuff is all accounting anyway and while others may count certain parts of development costs even for private MIC, China definitely does not count even SOE MIC development costs. There are so many different aspects to this like is it just for maintenance and feeding of soldiers and salary this sort of stuff or including every aspect of procurement too and which ones count which ones don't.

Spending too much means a lot is replaced if no war in near future as better and more efficient weapons are developed soon. It is best to spend on development and prioritizing everything. Make sure there is no one who dares to commit to open war. Then worry about small conventional potential conflicts. Rest is sustaining and the 99% is really about new. Develop develop develop until caught up and exceeded in whatever field. Buy what is required in terms of operation and need and future determined need. Gotta train now for anticipated potential stuff in future. That is smaller part of equation but for China it wants to develop and hold the ability for. If the thing is useful then buy some. Buy many if very useful and anticipated to be used. Rest is about, I have to have it now if I need to use it in future even if the chance is slight.

Why still a relatively small spending for military even if we don't count development and industry cost into the 1.7% or whatever. Spending too much means other areas will have no funding. Education, health, infrastructure, science and technology institutions. Funding for retirees even. China pays a lot of money to retirees especially if they are government ones. Almost too much I think. Elderly people often give thousands to younger relatives every month because they don't spend all the money and they lived with frugality that western people simply CANNOT IMAGINE even. This generation will use one bucket of clean tap water to make some tea, then wash some veggies, then pre-rinse some dirty rags, and then if okay, water plants with. Every piece of tissue paper is divided into singular plies and used up entirely. This is true for basically most of the country in most fields. A resource is used to its full and shared and shared and shared often. Maybe not the wealthy Chinese these days and definitely no longer the ones under 50 but more than half the country is over 50.

Developing your industry and economy and finishing development for living standards and infrastructure everywhere is next priority after definite military security and even conventional military security. Both of those achieved. This stuff ties with how much funding and human resources of capable minds can be put to development of military programs which is really more important than buying more tanks and more ships. More ships is important and certainly over having more rifles and tanks but you need extremely high levels of technologies too just to make sure your new ships are capable of defending themselves and destroying their targets too. This is the balance and if we account for China's weapons development funding, I don't think it would be only 1.7% GDP in total. Maybe nearly 3%.

"Purchasing power of 1+ trillion RMB isn't too bad when spend internally, nominal exchange rate is only meaningful cross-border." Well said!

Other than PPP factor, this is a major cause why China's defence budget is low in GDP percentage when compare with US and the rest of the World.

Western arms manufacturers are big money making machines, with high total cost plus high profit margins, their weapons per unit are certain more expensive, also their salaries, training costs, etc are also relative expensive per unit compare with China.

Chinese arms manufacturers are state owned, their profit margins can be as low as 6% to 10%, compare with 50% to 100% of the West. As state owned entreprises they do not make big fat profits from from their owner, which is the government of China.

Therefore China's 1.3% defense budget is equivalent to more than 2% of US, or even more.

Also, since arms manufacturing is money making machine in USA, these manufacturers are "hiring" top generals, admirals and congress people to push for more defense budget every years, and looking for wars and conflicts around the World.

Well again this is about accounting right.

So you can count western MIC profit as funds that will go towards development costs in future.

For China's, this development cost is state granted and probably not part of this 1.7% GDP. But if these manufacturers and developers don't make money, then they can't employ smart engineers and get the scientists in CAS and the military universities and the tech universities to develop things.

Therefore it's just a question of how it is counted. The SOE MIC industries may not make much profit at all from supplying PLA but the state will manage how the funding goes and this margin is basically the same as western MIC's profit from supplying militaries.

Just different ways with different advantages and disadvantages. Basically with western MIC, the corporations themselves decide everything while in China the state decides everything.

 

[Shotgunner51]

"Purchasing power of 1+ trillion RMB isn't too bad when spend internally, nominal exchange rate is only meaningful cross-border." Well said!

Other than PPP factor, this is a major cause why China's defence budget is low in GDP percentage when compare with US and the rest of the World.

Western arms manufacturers are big money making machines, with high total cost plus high profit margins, their weapons per unit are certain more expensive, also their salaries, training costs, etc are also relative expensive per unit compare with China.

Chinese arms manufacturers are state owned, their profit margins can be as low as 6% to 10%, compare with 50% to 100% of the West. As state owned entreprises they do not make big fat profits from from their owner, which is the government of China.

Therefore China's 1.3% defense budget is equivalent to more than 2% of US, or even more.

Also, since arms manufacturing is money making machine in USA, these manufacturers are "hiring" top generals, admirals and congress people to push for more defense budget every year, and looking for wars and conflicts around the World. You can see that the neocon hawks are very strong in the US congress.

Ain't that true! Don't forget US includes imputation into GDP boosting an extra 15% estimated, that means % spend is even higher if this is removed from the equation.

And China is 1.185%, crazily low and comfortable spend level, but very very efficient, we can do it for a long time. Meanwhile the US Congress can continue to push the money they don't have to the pockets of MIC they can't control, let's see how long they can play this dollar printing game.

 

[vi-va]

Can you please tell me how I can find their defense forum? Pretty please? I'm sure it must be quite fun.
If it's censored on PDF, try to write it in base64 or something.

https:// defence forum india .com/community

 

[QWECXZ]

https:// defence forum india .com/community

I laughed my *** off right after I saw that they have a subsection for "Balochistan - Freedom Struggle". What clowns. lol