China gets 40-year rights at Pakistani port

[Kompromat]

What exactly is there to be terrified of? Your new PM? Or just the general delusion of many from eastern side that the world revolves around the tri-star?

A prospect of an economically independent and increasingly powerful Pakistani state?

 

[browser]

What exactly is there to be terrified of? Your new PM? Or just the general delusion of many from eastern side that the world revolves around the tri-star?

You're terrified of the irrelevance of Pak vis-a-vie India.

Not that I think you should be (for another 50yrs), but the collective action of your rulers indicates that is the case.

Break the cord and move your merry way. By cord I mean the deep rooted desire to prove yourself (superior or otherwise) to Indians (Hindus, in your eyes).

 

[Secur]

A prospect of an economically independent and increasingly powerful Pakistani state?

Most probably, its enough to send shivers down the spines of many in the region, both enemies and pseudo-friends. Its a smart decision to hand over port control to Beijing for development and management. Strangely, I didn't see the similar accusations of colonization and taking advantage when it was earlier given for the same purpose to Port of Singapore.

 

[Menace2Society]

Its going to take 40 years for Pakistan to get out of 3rd world status. And thats if everything is planned out carefully.

 

[Viper0011.]

What exactly is there to be terrified of? Your new PM? Or just the general delusion of many from eastern side that the world revolves around the tri-star?

The real nightmare is that a country like Pakistan becoming a modern, and one of the top 20 economies. Pakistan is 4-5 times smaller than India, and with 5 times less population. So it'll require significantly less capital and growth to cross India, in terms of quality of life, and richness (take an example of Dubai or Singapore).

But the real issue is, if Pakistan's economy crosses 1.5 or 1.9+ trillion dollars GDP, that would allow them to take their defense budget to $ 15-20 billion (already expected by 2021-2025). So if that happens, what are the regional implications?

With $ 15-20 billion defense budget, a 4-5 times smaller country can have a big enough air force and big enough of a navy that it can pretty much match India's Pakistan specific forces, by 1:1.25 (1.25 for India). Even if India decided to leave her other areas empty (crazy idea), and go for an all out war with Pakistan, it would be very difficult to win, as there won't be a whole lot of gap in capability, and India still has to protect herself from China, etc.

$ 15-20 billion worth of defense budget existing for just a few years, can buy a LOT of modern weapons and can create a very superior force (specially, with Pakistan's ability to produce many weapons internally). Similarly, with this much budget, Pakistan's navy, facing the Indian fleet towards Pakistan (not including an aircraft carrier for apples to apples comparison), will be only 10-15% less in numbers. Which is marginal. So India loses all these military advantages she may have right now.

Now add another dimension to this, another one of the fastest growing economy, still cheaper than India, right on India's doorsteps, supported by the Chinese and the new relationships that Pakistan will form by then (with Russia, Central Russian States, African nations, the West, etc). So its an interesting situation for India. Just the Chinese trade route alone, will start to generate enough money every year that it'll take care of Pakistan's budget gaps and losses right now, through taxes, new cities which will form around the trade route, hundreds of thousands of new businesses, jobs, schools, universities, hospitals, etc, etc.

Note that Mexico's GDP is around $ 1.2 trillion and Australia's is $ 1.4 Trillion, with KSA at $ 777 Billion, but all these countries are 20-30 times smaller in terms of the Pakistani population. So there is no doubt that Pakistan can't grow her economy to $ 1.5+ trillion.

 

[Secur]

You're terrified of the irrelevance of Pak vis-a-vie India.

Not that I think you should be (for another 50yrs), but the collective action of your rulers indicates that is the case.

Break the cord and move your merry way. By cord I mean the deep rooted desire to prove yourself (superior or otherwise) to Indians (Hindus, in your eyes).

Terrified of irrelevance? Now that is a new thing, something like de-hyphenization of India and Pakistan for the United States? What even gives you the idea? You don't exactly see the Arabs coming to you for assistance in the on-going operations, now do you? Ironically, the very people accusing Pakistanis of inferiority complex and obsession are the first to bring absurd terms and fantasy theories where they belong not, explaining where the actual insecurities lie. Then again, trying to explain every Pakistani action by themselves is an exclusive Indian trait, as seen widely on Bharat-Rakshak. You wont see it happening here. And there's no desire to prove superior, its just you people who wish to see ghosts in the dark, do not interpret the efforts to maintain minimum credible deterrence that way, its just a means of maintaining military parity with a hostile five times larger neighbor and who would say that it hasn't been effective?

 

[Viper0011.]

Its going to take 40 years for Pakistan to get out of 3rd world status. And thats if everything is planned out carefully.

Says who???? Continue down the path right now, by 2017, the electric generation issue would've been resolved (or 80% of it). That's the time your economic output will be at max capacity, with all businesses running without power outages, with billions being generated through pass through taxes on the trade corridor, with mineral exploration becoming a reality and with millions of new jobs and tax net revenue.....by 2020, you'll be considered a "developing country". Pakistan isn't considered a "third world" country right now, unless someone is just figure speaking and then so is India, Bangladesh, etc.

Pakistan is now an official part of BRIC + 11 economies (Brazil, Russia, India, China + 11 fastest growth countries including Pakistan). So its a 5-7 years of game to pull the country out of poverty if same policies and business savvy people continue to run the system, bring in investments and create opportunity for Pakistani people.

 

[browser]

Terrified of irrelevance? Now that is a new thing, something like de-hyphenization of India and Pakistan for the United States? What even gives you the idea? You don't exactly see the Arabs coming to you for assistance in the on-going operations, now do you? Ironically, the very people accusing Pakistanis of inferiority complex and obsession are the first to bring absurd terms and fantasy theories where they belong not, explaining where the actual insecurities lie. Then again, trying to explain every Pakistani action by themselves is an exclusive Indian trait, as seen widely on Bharat-Rakshak. You wont see it happening here. And there's no desire to prove superior, its just you people who wish to see ghosts in the dark, do not interpret the efforts to maintain minimum credible deterrence that way, its just a means of maintaining military parity with a hostile five times larger neighbor and who would say that it hasn't been effective?

There you go. Once again comparing us (the Arab requesting your help and not us).

Frankly this thought never crossed my mind.

Read my post..."break the cord"

Indians have no hostility towards you, currently just indifference.

 

[Secur]

There you go. Once again comparing us (the Arab requesting your help and not us).

Frankly this thought never crossed my mind.

Read my post..."break the cord"

Indians have no hostility towards you, currently just indifference.

Just answering your absurd idea of irrelevance by the most recent conflict in the Middle East. I would love to see that indifference, the only problem is that it doesn't exist.

 

[browser]

Just answering your absurd idea of irrelevance by the most recent conflict happens to be in the Middle East. I would love to see that indifference, the only problem is that it doesn't exist.

Indifference is the first step to acceptance. Need to promote it on both sides.

Hopefully we get there...

 

[dray]

First export should be a ship load of tissue papers to India.

Oh come on, we love Pakistan, it was just care & concern!

Strangely, I didn't see the similar accusations of colonization and taking advantage when it was earlier given for the same purpose to Port of Singapore.

Singapore was a small country, China is a big power with 'ambitions' that goes beyond economic interests, just like the USA!

 

[MilSpec]

so the burning already starts ? lolz , you can surely come to Gwadar to cool your A$$'s down, we have this very deep sea port there

That was a very witty response....

.
I am sorry, but there never was a 'big rental' fleet from the USA. They could use the bases for their use (pretty common in the world affairs for those states WHICH MATTER

btw , in case you are oblivious to your own navy
"During the 1980s, the Pakistan Navy enjoyed unprecedented growth, doubling its surface fleet from 8 to 16 surface combatants in 1989. In 1982, the Reagan administration approved US$3.2 billion military and economic aid to Pakistan. Pakistan acquired eight Brooke and Garcia-class frigates from United States Navy on a five-year lease in 1988. A depot for repairs, USS Hector followed the lease of these ships in April 1989"

 

[Secur]

Singapore was a small country, China is a big power with 'ambitions' that goes beyond economic interests, just like the USA!

Nope, unlike US, China is yet to prove herself that way. I think the problem is that Singapore was a lot more friendlier to India, a reason many experts find link with its lack of interest and insufficient efforts to develop the infrastructure in Gwadar port. Beijing of course is a different story altogether.

 

[Viper0011.]

Indians have no hostility towards you, currently just indifference.

I've been to many, many places in my life. Many cultures, people and all. There are two things that happen everywhere you go, the Arabs, no matter where they live, hate the Israelis. Indians, no matter where they live, where they work, etc, hate the Pakistanis. Its just the truth and very natural. There is no if or but around it.

 

[browser]

I've been to many, many places in my life. Many cultures, people and all. There are two things that happen everywhere you go, the Arabs, no matter where they live, hate the Israelis. Indians, no matter where they live, where they work, etc, hate the Pakistanis. Its just the truth and very natural. There is no if or but around it.

How about the Tutsi's and Hutu's in Burundi?