China foreign policy grossly misunderstood in the West

[epebble]

I disagree.

United Europe is not in conflict with the USA because they are all part of the western civilization. When it comes to "other" great powers, they are actually others for the westerners. There is a civilizational difference outside of the great power co-operation/confrontation. The great powers of one civilization co-operates with a great power of another civilization if there is an interest but when it comes "us vs them" the civilizational difference comes to fore. They are known as west and we are known as east for a reason.

The most violent conflicts of 20th century were within Western civilization. Even the less violent but long-lasting cold war was within 'Western' civilization, because though USSR was geographically east, culturally they are not very eastern. Their historical capital/center of culture was St. Petersburg. There are many St. Petersburgs in the West. So, large scale civilizational conflict is still, mostly vaporware.

 

[Bengal71]

The most violent conflicts of 20th century were within Western civilization. Even the less violent but long-lasting cold war was within 'Western' civilization, because though USSR was geographically east, culturally they are not very eastern. Their historical capital/center of culture was St. Petersburg. There are many St. Petersburgs in the West. So, large scale civilizational conflict is still, mostly vaporware.

Civilization conflict != all out warfare.

But it exists and you can see some glimpses of it.

One example, Turkey is in NATO alliance but they are not considered a real ally by the west but just an ally of convenience, I call them "hoodwinked" ally.

Another one, after 9/11 lot of western people of Europe and USA were calling for crusade even though most people of the west are non-religious. But they still do identify with their western Christian religion/culture/past. In critical times when they think they are in conflict with another civilization, their identity comes out and they openly identify with their identity, even the atheist ones.

 

[Haldorss]

because though USSR was geographically east, culturally they are not very eastern.

Russia is more western than USA, Australia and Canada. Americans often make the mistake of stealing European history, larping as Romans frequently, and concluding cowboys yelling yeehaw with spittoons in Ranches is more western than Russia. Stealing European history as your own does not make a country "western"

 

[nahtanbob]

I disagree.

United Europe is not in conflict with the USA because they are all part of the western civilization. When it comes to "other" great powers, they are actually others for the westerners. There is a civilizational difference outside of the great power co-operation/confrontation. The great powers of one civilization co-operates with a great power of another civilization if there is an interest but when it comes to "us vs them" the civilizational difference comes to fore. They are known as west and we are known as east for a reason.

How is that any different from countries co-operating on matters of national interest ? Samuel Huntington's Clash of civilizations is a good theory. It does not explain everything.

 

[Bengal71]

How is that any different from countries co-operating on matters of national interest ? Samuel Huntington's Clash of civilizations is a good theory. It does not explain everything.

I wasn't referring to Huntington's work, I never read it but have heard about it. I was only commenting based on my observations in my lifetime.

The western countries do co-operate on matters of national interest but not when their own civilization's interest is at stake. A good example is Australia, they have lot to gain by aligning themselves with China and Asia. But they only do so on economic matters but firmly in the ranks of the western powers about the Chinese enemy. If there is a shooting war between US and China, they will leave all economic interest and join the US and allies and fight the Chinese. What's Australia's interest in doing so other than their civilizationl bond with the west?

 

[etylo]

I wasn't referring to Huntington's work, I never read it but have heard about it. I was only commenting based in my observations in my lifetime.

The western countries do co-operate on matters of national interest but not when their own civilization's interest is at stake. A good example is Australia, they have lot to gain by aligning themselves with China and Asia. But they only do so on economic matters but firmly in the ranks of the western powers about the Chinese enemy. If there is a shooting war between US and China, they will leave all economic interest and join the US and allies and fight the Chinese. What's Australia's interest in doing so other than their civilizationl bond with the west?

And race too.

 

[nahtanbob]

And race too.

It helps for two countries with differences to be of the same race. it can calm things down. But it does not stop.

It does not stop Russia and Ukraine.
Europeans would not fought two world wars
If race was an issue West Pakistanis won't beat up on East Pakistanis
Japanese would not have tried to conquer Korea and Japan

I wasn't referring to Huntington's work, I never read it but have heard about it. I was only commenting based in my observations in my lifetime.

The western countries do co-operate on matters of national interest but not when their own civilization's interest is at stake. A good example is Australia, they have lot to gain by aligning themselves with China and Asia. But they only do so on economic matters but firmly in the ranks of the western powers about the Chinese enemy. If there is a shooting war between US and China, they will leave all economic interest and join the US and allies and fight the Chinese. What's Australia's interest in doing so other than their civilizationl bond with the west?

Australia has no reason to be friends with China. Give me one good reason. The Chinese were fools to think economic interests meant friendship.

 

[hembo]

Finally an Indian recognizes this. There needs to be an Asian superpower, for too long Asia and other continents have been exploited by the imperialist forces of Europe and more recently USA.

In an ideal world, I would always aspire for India & China to get along. Specially as the two countries are neighbors & both are responsible to develop & maintain the wellbeing of 35% of the world's populations.

I think India was doing its bit towards that since last 20 odd years. The original flawed policy of Nehru, which encouraged exiled Tibetans to be vocal about their govt. in exile had been all but reversed and one hardly hears anything about Tibetan govt. in exile nowadays. They are now merely refugees now, who has been slowly assimilated as Indian citizens and the core issue that the Chinese were mad about initially is being mitigated, slowly but surely.

It is now upto the Chinese govt. to show some reciprocal gestures, rather than the posturing, to make it move forward. Other-wise status quo, although not beneficial, will be accepted by GoI.

@Kaniska

 

[etylo]

It helps for two countries with differences to be of the same race. it can calm things down. But it does not stop.

It does not stop Russia and Ukraine.
Europeans would not fought two world wars
If race was an issue West Pakistanis won't beat up on East Pakistanis
Japanese would not have tried to conquer Korea and Japan



Australia has no reason to be friends with China. Give me one good reason. The Chinese were fools to think economic interests meant friendship.

Koreans and Japanese are of different races, they were enemies through out history. West Pakistanis are quite different from east Pakistanis racially even though they are all Muslims. Ukrainians and Russians are of two races despite being closely related. Race is a factor but not the only factor.

Lets put this way, Australia has no reason to be enemy of China, China doesn't threaten Aussie security and economy in any way, the two countries used to have very good relation before Aussies signed up to US anti-China crusade which is none other than motivated by ideology, culture and racism on Australian side. Only fools like you and some Aussies think otherwise China should be their sworn enemy.

 

[Bengal71]

In an ideal world, I would always aspire for India & China to get along. Specially as the two countries are neighbors & both are responsible to develop & maintain the wellbeing of 35% of the world's populations.

I think India was doing its bit towards that since last 20 odd years. The original flawed policy of Nehru, which encouraged exiled Tibetans to be vocal about their govt. in exile had been all but reversed and one hardly hears anything about Tibetan govt. in exile nowadays. They are now merely refugees now, who has been slowly assimilated as Indian citizens and the core issue that the Chinese were mad about initially is being mitigated, slowly but surely.

It is now upto the Chinese govt. to show some reciprocal gestures, rather than the posturing, to make it move forward. Other-wise status quo, although not beneficial, will be accepted by GoI.

@Kaniska

If China resolves border conflicts with India to India's satisfaction, will India stop being anti-China? I don't think so. The reason is India has a lot to gain economically by allying with the west against China.

 

[etylo]

If China resolves border conflicts with India to India's satisfaction, will India stop being anti-China? I don't think so. The reason is India has a lot to gain economically by allying with the west against China.

Indians are too greedy on the border disputes with possible settlements. Can't really settle with a snake.

 

[hembo]

If China resolves border conflicts with India to India's satisfaction, will India stop being anti-China? I don't think so. The reason is India has a lot to gain economically by allying with the west against China.

I beg to disagree. There is a history of 2500+ years of peaceful coexistence with mutual cooperation between the two cultures. Also, India had & will always look to be neutral in any external conflicts. Even now, if there is a US-China conflict, I believe, India will continue to be neutral, unless the China's posturing towards India increases. India will never form any US-Israel, US-UK or US-EU type ally with any nation (including Russia) unless someone pushes her to a corner with no outs whatsoever. Even than it will resist to form any fully committed military alliance with other nations.

India knows it pretty well that it has everything to be gained with a cordial (notice, I didn't use the word friendly yet) relationship with China.

And India is not anti China. At best, its a strained relationship, which could & should be mended.

 

[hembo]

Indians are too greedy on the border disputes with possible settlements. Can't really settle with a snake.

Apart from your snarky & toxic vocabulary, I agree with the basic statement that with current demands from both nations, the boundary disputes are hard to be settled at the moment. For Indian Govt, it will be a political suicide if its cedes anything and for the Chinese, its a matter of pride. But I look froward to the days when both nations will be in a stage that the benefits will outweigh any give & take deal.

I once again blame Mr. Nehru for not settling it earlier (same with Kashmir dispute), when he had the chance with Zhou Enlai's proposal in the 60s. The same opportunity was also overlooked by Nehru's daughter Indira Gandhi, when Deng Xiaoping repeated the same offer in 1980 & 1982.

The LAC-plus offer by Zhao Ziyang, which was a great & better than the Enlai's offer btw, was also not followed through adequately by the Indian side. Nehru's daughter & grandson, Indira & Rajiv Gandhi, were to be blamed on this instance.

I am not one to overlook our own past mistakes. And I'm hopeful for the future as well.

 

[Bengal71]

It helps for two countries with differences to be of the same race. it can calm things down. But it does not stop.

It does not stop Russia and Ukraine.
Europeans would not fought two world wars
If race was an issue West Pakistanis won't beat up on East Pakistanis
Japanese would not have tried to conquer Korea and Japan



Australia has no reason to be friends with China. Give me one good reason. The Chinese were fools to think economic interests meant friendship.

Economic reasons, that what you seem to alude to for national interest. They are also in the neighborhood. What else you think should be a reason for Australia or any other country to be friends with others.

 

[nahtanbob]

Economic reasons, that what you seem to alude to for national interest. They are also in the neighborhood. What else you think should be a reason for Australia or any other country to be friends with others.

Economics helps. But it is not sufficient condition for friendship. Many countries are friendly with USA, China or Saudi Arabia for economic reasons. But not everyone is a friend.

You can be friends with someone because they are in your neighborhood.
You can be friends with someone because you shared similar culture.
You can be friends with someone because you have a similar world view