China Forcibly Separating Thousands Of Children From Families In Xinjiang, Report

[the_messenger]

I also read the report. It show children join kitten garden.
How the hell is that become "force to seperate children from parents" ?
Their parents after have some skills join the work force, it's naturally that they must enroll their children to kitten garden.

 

[055_destroyer]

Hate doesn't come without reason...The mod team is tired of doing Chinese bidding of hiding the elephant.
If Chinese members are going to keep behaving as they are ...they alone are to be blamed for China losing friends in the future.

They can't argue they bash. Once that is done they request to shut down thread after threads...I am sorry this issue has been ignored for far too long...discuss it in a civil manner if you can't leave the thread....

Your reason is invalid. You are just giving one side conclusion?

You mean sentence like " They dont even spare the grave." as a civilised way to discuss?

Why do waz, The eagle and Arsalan do not harbor such conclusion like you?

As if Turkish members who don't run to moderator when their ideas run out and can't prove their stance. How many times Turkish members ask moderator to shut down Kurdish thread? Why I do not see the frustration from you regards to them?

@WebMaster @Slav Defence

If you feel tired as moderator or you feel so burden as moderator. I can volunteer to take over your post.

@Dubious is not suitable as moderator, not impartial to do effective moderating to ensure all party equality. Look at his post and reply. Full of contempt against Chinese.

 

[Dubious]

Good, so don't complain about whatever people feel like calling you.

That is against forum rules...Please don't use PRC rules on PDF

Every member has free rights to complain if other member can't hold his tongue or is impolite
We expect all members to be decent and civilized if some can't then every member has rights to complain...any member stopping such a member is breaking forum rules. Kindly Stop bullying other members

 

[TheTruth]

Listen Chinese member if you can't discuss don't blame it on others. Your posts are on every thread denying the obvious.

Let me remind you:

Muslims pray 5x a day
Chinese concentration camp are govt property so no praying allowed.
Xinjiang Muslims are forced to live in these camps
When you are forced to be in an area where you can't pray 5x...that is oppression in every word


Now call that biased or whatever...when you can't call a spade a spade don't prevent other people from doing so.


As for China's sovereignty it isn't challenged by raising questions. It is however challenged when we see Chinese members incapable of discussing and abuse members or discuss members only...then we think maybe China really isn't what it claims...After all these members are supposed to be educated but despite that the attitude and language speaks the opposite!

There is no evidence whatsoever for Zenz's claims. He sites sources, who he doesn't name, and these sources give rough estimates of number detained in small rural areas (think 1000-2000 people), then he "deduces" that these estimates can be generalized to the entire Muslim population in Xinjiang. His report is published online, it's 40 or 50 pages.

Then he gave a 600,000 high end estimate .... for people who have ever been in any "deradicalization" center for any period of time from a few days to years.

The media then says its 1 million permanently detained, then 2 million, 3 million, all without proof, substantiation or clarification.

Complete nonsense lies like EVERYTHING the West says about China if you have been paying attention. Don't be fooled.

 

[055_destroyer]

That is against forum rules...Please don't use PRC rules on PDF

Every member has free rights to complain if other member can't hold his tongue or is impolite
We expect all members to be decent and civilized if some can't then every member has rights to complain...any member stopping such a member is breaking forum rules. Kindly Stop bullying other members

Your accusation is full of one sided contempt. We are asking for forum rules and not PRC rules. I just saw @The Eagle closed a thread about CPEC which he deemed fakes. So how do moderator defined what is fake and whats not to close it? I am interested to know the process.

 

[Nilgiri]

Geopolitics is a pragmatic thing, based upon a nation's interests.

I can say right now, if the despute between Indian and Pakistan didn't exist, along with if Pakistan was as rich as China, heck, forget China, if Pakistan was as rich as India, Pakistan and China would not be friendly.

Alas, geopolitics have thrust Pakistan and China together, and Pakistan must remain silent towards China's actions against the Uigher population.

I totally get this side of argument. But PDF is good avenue for free citizens (that dont after all speak for entire nation like a govt does) of whatever country to express their thoughts and concerns on any issue...esp its underlying morality.

I totally understand 100% a govt is constrained by geopolitical and fiscal etc realities. Same reason I also cannot preach to Indian govt to take up every issue and matter of another country, especially with an ally that for the greater good, we must ignore and even support certain things that otherwise we (if we had the luxury) wouldn't.

But I will voice my personal conscience on it regardless, if I see some need to. It's been a while since I did so for the uighur issue. If in fact its true ( I dont know the extent and neither do I take any media news from anywhere to be 100% true by default)....this really strikes on another level... I mean its kids!....to me the parent and kid relationship (in context of upbringing in culture and received wisdom...past the whole natural love/bonding) is simply a sacred thing that should be kept firmly away from any authoritarian state purview. I simply couldnt imagine what its like to have your kid taken away from you because your culture is deemed as not conforming to the state's norms by whatever argument.

It is actually poignant a chinese member brought up the crimes of western world regarding this. "Rabbit proof fence" was a very touching movie on this subject....watched it in high school for english class, never forgot it.

 

[Dubious]

Your reason is invalid. You are just giving one side conclusion?

You mean sentence like " They dont even spare the grave." as a civilised way to discuss?

Why do waz, The eagle and Arsalan do not harbor such conclusion like you?

As if Turkish members who don't run to moderator when their ideas run out and can't prove their stance. How many times Turkish members ask moderator to shut down Kurdish thread? Why I do not see the frustration from you regards to them?

@WebMaster @Slav Defence

If you feel tired as moderator or you feel so burden as moderator. I can volunteer to take over your post.

@Dubious is not suitable as moderator, not impartial to do effective moderating to ensure all party equality. Look at his post and reply. Full of contempt against Chinese.

Mods are allowed to discuss I am not sure what impartiality you seek....I am not handing you bans for discussing that is already showing unbiased.

However if you want to discuss a member, bully a member or insult a member and get a jail out of free card, I am sorry that doesn't happen here! This isn't China. Rest of the world doesn't behave like China so either behave in a civilized manner or don't join international forums...your choice.

Discuss the topic not the members and please quit crying it is challenging China's ability to raise citizens who are articulated.

 

[SQ8]

Like I get what you are saying....and I would support China this way too if its simply putting in its rule of law into the area for a security/nationalist reason.

But stripping ppl away from their culture this way for homogeneous conformity is morally wrong in essence. That too from childhood (basically you have determined their own culture is unfit to even exist and persist). It is orwellian mixed in with "minority report" kind of argument.

I don't see Pakistan doing that in its western regions (again its bringing national unity through security apparatus)...nor I see India doing that or the US/West doing that today. Those can all be argued to be national security measures since those people are not being sent for "re-education" and have their religion and culture demolished. That too the US border concerns illegals in first place (not US citizens)....a better equivalent to that would be the Afghan border situation with Pakistan....should there be a fence there or not?

But this kind of insidious stuff (forcing people to give up their culture and sense of morality even...and doing so to children) needs whole different scale of authoritarianism for sole homogeneous conformity (to essentially the majority) argument....given they (Uighurs) are recognized PRC Citizens aren't they? In the end it just emboldens the argument that Chinese state does not have a right to these areas with these apparently starkly different culture that they say now (through action past the theory) cannot co-exist with majority.

These things never end well.



Yes predictable 50 cent troll....probably super mad at the pakistani members response here to such news:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...istani-women-endure-rapes-china/#.XR_8detKiUk

Want me to post those threads and what your "iron brothers" expressed about you lot?

You aren't fooling anyone bucko when you try to brainwash anyone outside your 1984 orwellian state...that its all perfect and rainbows and roses:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/25/china-refuses-to-admit-it-has-a-rape-problem-i-would-know/

http://news.trust.org/item/20190520093012-01wks/

If you read 1984(or pretty much any dystopian totalitarian novel or movie), the whole concept was that if you create a homogeneous society you remove all dissent. Remove dissent and then you create a compliant strong organism that can then expand much like any simple organism does

Isn’t it fascinating that even socially Mankind behaves like all other life on earth?

When in danger,instead of a diverse organism take the simplest form like an ameoba and that will be resilient to external and internal threats.

What the Chinese state are doing is just that, they see external threats from America, from India, from Different religious and social thought; and they are reacting like the most basic organism.

 

[055_destroyer]

There is no evidence whatsoever for Zenz's claims. He sites sources, who he doesn't name, and these sources give rough estimates of number detained in small rural areas (think 1000-2000 people), then he "deduces" that these estimates can be generalized to the entire Muslim population in Xinjiang. His report is published online, it's 40 or 50 pages.

Then he gave a 600,000 high end estimate .... for people who have ever been in any "deradicalization" center for any period of time from a few days to years.

The media then says its 1 million permanently detained, then 2 million, 3 million, all without proof, substantiation or clarification.

Complete nonsense lies like EVERYTHING the West says about China if you have been paying attention. Don't be fooled.

Your post is very sensible. I do not understand how a moderator can ignore such points taken and conclude China as a culprit. @WebMaster @Slav Defence

 

[Dubious]

Your accusation is full of one sided contempt. We are asking for forum rules and not PRC rules. I just saw @The Eagle closed a thread about CPEC which he deemed fakes. So how do moderator defined what is fake and whats not to close it? I am interested to know the process.

We have our ways to determine or just check...you see China bans alot of media and url ...many are not banned in Pakistan so we can double check and cross reference.

Secondly you don't see that as impartial but you see my discussions as impartial kids of speaks about you.


Thank you for proving you lack ability to judge and were trying to malign me as a mod. Please bookmark this post I will be referring to it in future

 

[That Guy]

I totally get this side of argument. But PDF is good avenue for free citizens (that dont after all speak for entire nation like a govt does) of whatever country to express their thoughts and concerns on any issue...esp its underlying morality.

I totally understand 100% a govt is constrained by geopolitical and fiscal etc realities. Same reason I also cannot preach to Indian govt to take up every issue and matter of another country, especially with an ally that for the greater good, we must ignore and even support certain things that otherwise we (if we had the luxury) wouldn't.

But I will voice my personal conscience on it regardless, if I see some need to. It's been a while since I did so for the uighur issue. If in fact its true ( I dont know the extent and neither do I take any media news from anywhere to be 100% true by default)....this really strikes on another level... I mean its kids!....to me the parent and kid relationship (in context of upbringing in culture and received wisdom...past the whole natural love/bonding) is simply a sacred thing that should be kept firmly away from any authoritarian state purview. I simply couldnt imagine what its like to have your kid taken away from you because your culture is deemed as not conforming to the state's norms by whatever argument.

It is actually poignant a chinese member brought up the crimes of western world regarding this. "Rabbit proof fence" was a very touching movie on this subject....watched it in high school for english class, never forgot it.

That's what the forum is here for, so feel free to do so.

I myself also complain a lot about things that many people here agree or disagree with, and as @Dubious knows, I unfortunately have a tendency of cause people to get angry at me, simply for have a wildly opposing, and often strong opinion.

 

[beijingwalker]

That is against forum rules...Please don't use PRC rules on PDF

Every member has free rights to complain if other member can't hold his tongue or is impolite

Good, he called us 50 cents and bots and complains that we can't take those terms and it''s a free forum and he can call us whatever he wants, so I told him that he should not complain if same names being called on him, did you read the whole discussion of this matter?

 

[Nilgiri]

They only want people to think this way:

This is wrong and I wish it were not the case.

Now will you say the same for the uighur re-education camps?

 

[Dubious]

We have our ways to determine or just check...you see China bans alot of media and url ...many are not banned in Pakistan so we can double check and cross reference.

Secondly you don't see that as impartial but you see my discussions as impartial kids of speaks about you.


Thank you for proving you lack ability to judge and were trying to malign me as a mod. Please bookmark this post I will be referring to it in future

@Oscar

Chinese members again trying to malign me as a mod because they can't answer my questions.

Also dragging arguments from precious threads where Chinese members were unable to answer questions and simply blamed me of harming or questioning China the country and its sovereignty..not sure how that happens but it happens in their imagination

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Did you watch that Vice documentary of secret filming in Xinjiang?if u didnt do watch

I honestly dont trust vice no matter what they say