China downplays Japan's construction of India's first bullet train project

[Bang Galore]

Like I said, we look for win-win business deal. If we see a deal is not a win-win, we will not involved in unless there is a political reason behind it.

That's perfectly fine. No need to get all uppity about this then.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

You fail to understand that Indians also save their money. India is actually an EXTREMELY RICH nation. Indians are not known to lavishly spend , rather, they also are keen to save. You may think they are 'poor'. Do not judge a book by its cover.

The route Japan got is the diamond belt of India- most of the world's diamond gets polished there- That part made a good chunk of $$$ earning even 10 years ago- It is the best route for HSR- also the Gujaratis are very rich and business people add to that the financial capital of India and trading belt of the India's richest state Maharashtra-

Other than this route- the French would get better deal with Delhi-Chandigarh which would be most probably extended to Amritsar- Down south Chennai-Bangalore-Hyderabad most probably extended to Amravati and Visakhapatnam would be another good route- The route China would get is more of an ambitious project with not very good returns in the 1st phase of HSR- It is very long and people would prefer Planes-

China already exported trains and built railway in India, this is not the first time also not the last time ... it's obviously China CRH train also will appear in India. Is there something so funny ?

That would be Mumbai metro bought by Reliance whose roof was found leaking during rainy season how do you expect anyone to trust Chinese quality- Other than that there isn't any thing Chinese in Indian railway system-

Still not a supporter for HSR in India at this point of time, the resources could have been better spent on industrial corridors, and activating smaller airfields for ease in communication.

It is going on- however at a snail's pace-

A symbolic picture.

The eating is same in some rural areas of India- posture is different(more like you see buddha sitting) If I eat like this in Indian metro I will be mad fun off

 

[Tiqiu]

From national interest 's point of view ,any infrastructure investment from China to India is bad. A developed India will be more hawkish towards China.

China's biggest customer in the future is Africa, a continent of 1.1b people and 30 million square km of land, with whom our friendships have been proven over time. A developed and strong Africa will benefit China politically and economically.

 

[Shotgunner51]

From national interest 's point of view ,any infrastructure investment from China to India is bad. A developed India will be more hawkish towards China.

China's biggest customer in the future is Africa, a continent of 1.1b people and 30 million square km of land, with whom our friendships have been proven over time. A developed and strong Africa will benefit China politically and economically.

Concur with that bro, but won't need to wait for any more hawkish in the future, check present day situation.

Anyway as mentioned the global infrastructure (HSR or not depending on the local economics) market is huge. With limited financial resources, focus should be resources rich regions (e.g. Africa as you suggested, Russia, Central & South America, Australia), growing industrial or business hubs along OBOR (e.g. Indonesia + Continental ASEAN, Central & Eastern Europe, CPEC, Sri Lanka, Iran, Eastern Africa).

 

[surya kiran]

@xunzi

The Japanese have been in India for more time, than any other investor. They entered this market when others would not touch it with a pole. Hence, the comfort for Indians with Japanese, because we know them to be long term players. Having consulted with a Japanese company, Dentsu let me tell you their approach is very good. Though, they do get frustrated a lot with Indians, they have not quit.

Coming to the current projects, there is no point in being sore. We, Indians, will choose what we believe is good for us. Not, what either you or the Americans feel is good for us. And therein lies something, the Chinese will need to accept when they work with India. It makes no sense, whatsoever, to compare the Indian market with Indonesia or Philipines or any EU country for that matter. The Indian infrastructure market is just opening up. The scale and depth of requirements is bigger than any single market. For this, there is a cost. Rates will have to be the lowest and you will need patience. The second, the Japs have a lot of.

The first, seems they are beating you at it. For now. So, instead of making this about nationality, you should follow your own advice. Its business. Either compete or let the better person take the business.

 

[egodoc222]

Lmao, stop dreaming China is way larger than india as a market for infrastructures.

Lol?
Let me dumb it down for you?
Where did I say China isn't...
I was saying India is the large infrastructure market for China or Japan to ignore!!

 

[surya kiran]

Concur with that bro, but won't need to wait for any more hawkish in the future, check present day situation.

Anyway as mentioned the global infrastructure (HSR or not depending on the local economics) market is huge. With limited financial resources, focus should be resources rich regions (e.g. Africa as you suggested, Russia, Central & South America, Australia), growing industrial or business hubs along OBOR (e.g. Indonesia + Continental ASEAN, Central & Eastern Europe, CPEC, Sri Lanka, Iran, Eastern Africa).

I fail to understand one simple thing. The easiest border you chaps are going to have is with India. Peace with India, results in your complete western border free of any kind of tensions. Except, your Xinjiang province. If the Chinese agree to solve the border issue till J&K, you can devote all your resources to the Eastern and Southern areas of China. The Tibetan 'problem' is not a violent problem. Yet.

A hawkish India exists, only because you provide support for a country which keeps throwing the N word every other day and sends terrorists into our territory. Remove this from the equation and there is no animosity.

 

[NIA]

Japan and Singapore has signed a deal to construct capital city ( Amravati) for Andhra pradesh.

 

[Shotgunner51]

I fail to understand one simple thing. The easiest border you chaps are going to have is with India. Peace with India, results in your complete western border free of any kind of tensions. Except, your Xinjiang province. If the Chinese agree to solve the border issue till J&K, you can devote all your resources to the Eastern and Southern areas of China. The Tibetan 'problem' is not a violent problem. Yet.

A hawkish India exists, only because you provide support for a country which keeps throwing the N word every other day and sends terrorists into our territory. Remove this from the equation and there is no animosity.

May I put aside geo-politics for a moment, and comment only on business, or at most geo-economics.

• First of all, China has limited financial resources, there is a urgent need to prioritize as I have explained in my previous post. Countries with vital natural reserves, and/or lucrative markets for industrial produce, and/or located in key transit geographies along OBOR, and/or sizable trade partners with currency co-op, are top priorities for infra investment.

• Secondly, politics do often gets in the way of business, it's pragmatic to acknowledge the fact that economic rivals have established their own spheres of influence. If, and only if, that happens in a priority market then yes national diplomacy should take part in serving business needs.

Hence it would be constructive for China have a clear global vision, stay focused on priorities, avoid wasting limited time, energy and financial resources.


P.S.: Like I have explained in the other thread before, if this HSR project ever materializes after fruition of G2G negotiation, it will definitely be Shinkansen, no other possible outcome. For the same reasons, markets in Philippines, US (except privately funded projects like ExpressWest), maybe Vietnam as well, will be with Japanese corps.

 

[Roybot]

Japan has got its foot in the door. India will be a huge HSR market. Once Japanese companies start building their rolling stocks in India and with agreeable TOT, economies of scale will make the superior Japanese technology just as cheap if not cheaper than the Chinese.

As unfair as it may sound, but Chinese product/technology has a stigma attached to it in India, infact in all of South Asia. "Chinese Maal" meaning Chinese Goods is used in a derogatory sense, to refer to unreliable, cheap knock offs, not just in India, but in Pakistan (They would not want you to believe that), Bangladesh, Sri Lanka , all of South Asia. So unless China offers incredibly good offer to India, which Japan isn't able to match, I don't see them beating the Japanese in the future corridors either.

Mind you, HSR network in India will potentially be the second largest in the world, after China. So China can keep winning the small projects in small countries, Japan with just one Indian HSR network in the bag will be able to beat China.

@Nihonjin1051

I'm not in the business to asskiss the Indian like you are. LOL Fact is India had NEVER been a big investor in infrastructure. This is the first time they loan money for infrastructure. I hope the Indian created value in the future and make a lot of export because as you know, they cannot afford to pay back these loan if they don't make money exporting something. Currently, they offer little value to the world so that's why default is a big possibility. Of course, the judge is still out there. We have to wait and see.

You have obviously not heard about JICA financing the Delhi Metro project. As for India defaulting, I don't think so.

Delhi Metro pays back loan to Japanese agency - The Hindu

 

[Shotgunner51]

Japan has got its foot in the door. India will be a huge HSR market. Once Japanese companies start building their rolling stocks in India and with agreeable TOT, economies of scale will make the superior Japanese technology just as cheap if not cheaper than the Chinese.

As unfair as it may sound, but Chinese product/technology has a stigma attached to it in India, infact in all of South Asia. "Chinese Maal" meaning Chinese Goods is used in a derogatory sense, to refer to unreliable, cheap knock offs, not just in India, but in Pakistan (They would not want you to believe that), Bangladesh, Sri Lanka , all of South Asia. So unless China offers incredibly good offer to India, which Japan isn't able to match, I don't see them beating the Japanese in the future corridors either.

Mind you, HSR network in India will potentially be the second largest in the world, after China. So China can keep winning the small projects in small countries, Japan with just one Indian HSR network in the bag will be able to beat China.

Value for money applies in a free market (free competition) comprised of fair transactions, buyers dictate final decision to choose products of whatever quality, specs or country of origins based on their own affordability. Looking from the supply side, with world's largest patents and industrial design registrations (check WIPO data in the link below), China Inc does offer products of wide quality-price ranges, countries of various income levels are free to select according to their own characteristics.

On HSR, surely India is potentially a large market given the population size, well it all depends on subsequent actual income/affordability levels. With established position, whatever the size could be Japan will definitely dominate this market, all the best! I am not sure whether Japan will beat China, the two rivals have quite different set of priorities, after all the result depends very much on performances of their respective markets, business is business.

http://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_941_2014.pdf

 

[Rangila]

India's cabinet clears $14.7 billion bullet train deal ahead of Shinzo Abe trip : India, News - India Today

 

[Roybot]

Value for money applies in a free market (free competition) comprised of fair transactions, buyers dictate final decision to choose products of whatever quality, specs or country of origins based on their own affordability. Looking from the supply side, with world's largest patents and industrial design registrations (check WIPO data in the link below), China Inc does offer products of wide quality-price ranges, countries of various income levels are free to select according to their own characteristics.

On HSR, surely India is potentially a large market given the population size, well it all depends on subsequent actual income/affordability levels. With established position, whatever the size could be Japan will definitely dominate this market, all the best! I am not sure whether Japan will beat China, the two rivals have quite different set of priorities, after all the result depends very much on performances of their respective markets, business is business.

http://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_941_2014.pdf

I did say the stigma attached to the Made in China tag is unfair, but it exists. What China needs to do and it already does is give incentives in terms of low cost, favorable loans among other things to offset that stigma. Good bilateral relationship also goes a long way in securing contracts.

I don't think China is going to give up this easily though. Chinese railway consortium is doing a feasibility study on a much longer (2000KM) Delhi-Chennai HSR route, and am sure they ll do all they can to undercut the Japanese offer. But as some of your compatriots suggested earlier, India is also a potential competitor and adversary, so China wouldn't want to help India anymore than it would want to.

 

[Harisudan]

Sorry to burst your bubble. China industries is build up by large investment of overseas Chinese.

Now your Japan is into recession. Your economy needs to depend on China to even gain or break even

China economy is almost 3 times of Japan. Little Japan.

Dude, do not compare Chinese and Japanese economy or technological Might..It is like comparing Apples to pine apples.. As china Build their HSR trains in the 21st century, Japan had Pioneered in this Stream atleast some 30 years back before china did.. So pls keep the national feeling aside and discuss the topic on hand.. Topic is about Japanese Bagging the order for HSR in Delhi..

And China's gain is japan's loss. That's why China's economy is growing at 7% a year while japan's economy is on recession.

Dude, Japanese economy has reached saturation point.. After saturation point rise or dip in economy will be only marginal and marginal variances will be the result of a healthy economy.. Chinese are growing at 7% because they have scope to grow, where as Japan is already a grown up one.. Çhina and India are still on the growing trend, to reach saturation point for them, it will take a long time... May be another decade for Chinese and two decades for India..
Stop comparing Japanese and Chinese again, for heaven's sake..

 

[mirage]

so " angoor khatte hain " shall be chinese conclusion of this venture