China Developing a Train That Will Run at 620 Miles Per Hour

[chauism]

whats the status of labour unions in china?

Ironically, Walmart in China is the only Walmart that has a labor union chapter within it.

All-China Federation of Trade Unions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[below_freezing]

I was talking about the minimum wages before, but if the US government is serious about bringing back manufacturing jobs and being competitive, then they can definitely tell those labor unions to shove it up their a**s, and put a wage ceiling there too. Why Americans have to be paid $100 for a job that others in developing countries only are paid $10 for?

because americans don't actually want to do manufacturing. a truck driver in US makes more than a college graduate with a degree in chemistry or civil engineering.

americans all want to be investment bankers and lawyers.

 

[chauism]

i guess their only whine is with the currency manipulation charge, isn't it. if they're going to lose jobs because of labour laws, thats one thing, but they're going to lose jobs due to currency manipulation, thats another.

i don't know enough to have a position on the currency manipulation charge btw.

Well, the jury is still out on that one. By pegging one's currency's exchange rate to dollar does not automatically mean one is manipulating its currency.

"Myth:China has been manipulating its currency to get an unfair advantage in trade for years

About 60 countries peg their exchange rates to the dollar today, and they are not all currency manipulators. The real question is whether a country systematically pegs its currency at an artificially low rate in order to gain competitive advantage—a violation of IMF and WTO rules.

The evidence against the RMB is mixed at best. China pegged the RMB to the dollar at the end of 1997, in the midst of the Asian crisis. At that time, the United States and other countries applauded the peg as a generous act that promoted stability in the region. Serious complaints did not emerge until 2003, when China’s trade surplus and America’s trade deficit (with the world and with China) began to rise sharply.

The immediate effect of RMB appreciation would be to raise prices for U.S. consumers.
However, the RMB/dollar rate, which had not changed, was not the primary reason for the growing imbalance. Rather, in the United States, the fiscal surpluses of the final Clinton years had shifted to large deficits and the Greenspan Fed was pursuing very loose monetary policies while the financial sector generated additional liquidity as a result of inadequate oversight and regulation. In China, aggressive domestic reforms had prompted exceptional productivity growth in manufacturing, while the government promoted both exports and import substitution.

Recognizing these shifts, China adopted a policy of gradual RMB appreciation in July 2005. Three years later, the RMB had risen 21 percent against the dollar. Because of the sharp, crisis-induced drop in export orders, however, China suspended the policy. China’s central bank governor recently confirmed that the suspension is a special, crisis-related measure, implying that gradual appreciation will resume as the crisis abates."
The RMB: Myths and Tougher-to-Deal-With Realities - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

 

[mike05]

yep, we're going to run into the 19th century issue of poor wages for factory workers again if all controls were loosened.

just a fact of life with capitalism. if labour is too abundant, it gets paid like ****.

Unions were originally created to protect the labour force from being exploited, but as the societies advanced the Unions become more powerful and in turn exploited the companies which they worked for.

That is why companies like GM, BA and even the London Tube have issues with their unions going on strikes because they know that the power they wield can bring the companies to its knees.

Typically they will argue for higher pay for working overtime and then the workers will idle during the day and then work overtime to make more money which in turn bleeds the company.

So please look at both sides first, Unions are not always a better thing especially for a country in its development stage. Luckily China manufacturing labour has come a long way since a decade ago and the people are fighting for their rights with the companies that hire them, and the government is actually closing an eye which I can only think is a sign of better things to come. (I hope)

 

[mike05]

i guess their only whine is with the currency manipulation charge, isn't it. if they're going to lose jobs because of labour laws, thats one thing, but they're going to lose jobs due to currency manipulation, thats another.

i don't know enough to have a position on the currency manipulation charge btw.

When the US benefited from the currency peg during their boom years no one even bothered to ask if China wanted to review its Currency peg. Now that the good times are over the sharp words start to come out. Ultimately every country has to plan it proper for the benefit of her citizens, the US should really take a longer term view of the economy rather then focus on making a quick buck and kicking up a ruckus when things don't go their way.

 

[CardSharp]

Unions were originally created to protect the labour force from being exploited, but as the societies advanced the Unions become more powerful and in turn exploited the companies which they worked for.

That is why companies like GM, BA and even the London Tube have issues with their unions going on strikes because they know that the power they wield can bring the companies to its knees.

Typically they will argue for higher pay for working overtime and then the workers will idle during the day and then work overtime to make more money which in turn bleeds the company.

So please look at both sides first, Unions are not always a better thing especially for a country in its development stage. Luckily China manufacturing labour has come a long way since a decade ago and the people are fighting for their rights with the companies that hire them, and the government is actually closing an eye which I can only think is a sign of better things to come. (I hope)

I dislike unions here in Canada, they are a shield for the lazy and incompetent but in China I am fully supportive of labour movements.

Chinese workers are very much in need of protection in the form of their own representation. The conditions in China is very much like the conditions during late 19th century American or English industrialization with the same levels of exploitation. Government supported unions are a good first step towards quashing exploitative labour practices.

On that note, I am an admirer of Han Dongfang. If you don't know about him, he came out of the unionizing movement during the Tienanmen square protests, but instead of running off to America, he stayed and turned himself in. Almost died in jail and go released for medical reasons to America and refused entry back. He now runs the China Labour Bulletin in Hongkong, a call in show, where workers can get legal advice and support against exploitive or illegal practices.

 

[CardSharp]

I think the minimum wages are not that bad.
US Paywizard.org - US Minimum Wage - Federal Minimum Wage and Minimum Wage per State or City
But like you mentioned, its the labor unions responsible for driving up the wages in US in a unreasonable level, here is a crazy example;

This is ridiculous, just by moving up the seniority grades, these people can make a higher wage than people whose contributions to society are much greater and more valuable.

The funny thing is their productivity probably decreases overtime.