China deploys fighter jets to patrol new air defence zone

[Nan Yang]

Big deal. Those airlines are not state companies. The US government advised out of safety concerns lest some itchy fingers on the China side shot off a few missiles. The airlines are free to comply or not.


China will blink first.


And how do you think/propose China is going to do that, meaning determination of threat existence and degree?

Buddy, have you even done basic research into the issue? Looks like not so I will help you by starting out with the rules given by your government...

Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the P.R.C.

See if you can find out why these rules offends the international aviation community, from pilots to lawyers to governments.

The way I understand it, the basic idea of ADIZ is actually just to get civilian airlines to recognized it. If hostile military recognized it as well....that is a bonus but for obvious reasons they will not.

Quote
U.S. commercial airlines have been advised to notify Chinese authorities before entering China’s newly proclaimed air defense identification zone, or ADIZ, over the East China Sea, although the Pentagon said earlier this week that U.S. military operations “will not in any way change” as a result of China’s announcement.

Quote
Japan has told its carriers not to comply with China’s ADIZ rules, while several regional commercial airliners, such as Singapore Airlines Ltd. (SGX:C6L), Australia’s Qantas Airways Limited (ASX:QAN) and South Korea’s Korean Air Lines Co. Ltd. (KRX:003490) have said they will notify Chinese authorities before flying through the protected zone.

Source
Washington Asks US Carriers To Comply With China’s Air Defense Zone Rules

A lot of rhetoric from Western mainstream media. But in the end apart from Japan, the rest of the world's airlines have decided to notify the PRC when entering their ADIZ.

 

[JayAtl]

Oh yes, the whiner fan. Its time for you to change your loser avatar. This coming weekend, the hawks will make it hard for you guys to get into the play offs. And we'll throw the AZ game to make sure they have a better record than you whiners and send you home for the playoffs.

Also, welcome to America. Don't take our hospitability as weakness and try to take advantage of us.

you will always be a seditious chinese always anti american over your CCP employer...and you have proven it all now. LOL You refuse to take the US side over the free fly zone and over taiwan and everything in US interests when it challenges china......and that shows you are a seditious chinese in america.

enjoy your bandwagon fan year ...

 

[faithfulguy]

you will always be a seditious chinese always anti american over your CCP employer...and you have proven it all now. LOL You refuse to take the US side over the free fly zone and over taiwan and everything in US interests when it challenges china......and that shows you are a seditious chinese in america.

enjoy your bandwagon fan year ...

I take the real American side. The side of America that put the constitution over anything else. And I have support real American like Ron Paul and now Rand Paul. Our view is that US do not need to station troops over sea and this do not benefit America's development.

I'll enjoy our super bowl year. Want a wager on the next game. Loser don't show up in this forum for a week.

 

[JayAtl]

I take the real American side. The side of America that put the constitution over anything else. And I have support real American like Ron Paul and now Rand Paul. Our view is that US do not need to station troops over sea and this do not benefit America's development.

I'll enjoy our super bowl year. Want a wager on the next game. Loser don't show up in this forum for a week.

you are a seditious chinese and no rand paul or ron paul excuse is going to work. You can't challenge your CCP employer...

Enjoy your bandwagon, just joined this year football fan, status .

 

[gambit]

The way I understand it, the basic idea of ADIZ is actually just to get civilian airlines to recognized it. If hostile military recognized it as well....that is a bonus but for obvious reasons they will not.

Quote
U.S. commercial airlines have been advised to notify Chinese authorities before entering China’s newly proclaimed air defense identification zone, or ADIZ, over the East China Sea, although the Pentagon said earlier this week that U.S. military operations “will not in any way change” as a result of China’s announcement.

Quote
Japan has told its carriers not to comply with China’s ADIZ rules, while several regional commercial airliners, such as Singapore Airlines Ltd. (SGX:C6L), Australia’s Qantas Airways Limited (ASX:QAN) and South Korea’s Korean Air Lines Co. Ltd. (KRX:003490) have said they will notify Chinese authorities before flying through the protected zone.

Source
Washington Asks US Carriers To Comply With China’s Air Defense Zone Rules

A lot of rhetoric from Western mainstream media. But in the end apart from Japan, the rest of the world's airlines have decided to notify the PRC when entering their ADIZ.

And you understood it -- wrong.

The basic idea of an ADIZ -- air defense identification zone -- is to seek out some forms of ID matching versus intent of aircraft heading towards national airspace. Yes, commercial flights are predominant, but the idea is to seek IDs of all flights, ascertain intentions, and have appropriate responses.

 

[Nan Yang]

And you understood it -- wrong.

The basic idea of an ADIZ -- air defense identification zone -- is to seek out some forms of ID matching versus intent of aircraft heading towards national airspace. Yes, commercial flights are predominant, but the idea is to seek IDs of all flights, ascertain intentions, and have appropriate responses.

Once the civilian airlines recognized it the bulk of the Identification is done. The rest remaining will mostly be hostile military plane that will not recognize any ADIZ anyway.

If you look at all other country ADIZ it is pretty much this way.

Big deal. Those airlines are not state companies. The US government advised out of safety concerns lest some itchy fingers on the China side shot off a few missiles. The airlines are free to comply or not.

I would love to see that. May be that is how the PLAAF trains its pilots -- cartoons -- and that was why the collision occurred.

Talking about incompetency and shooting down of civilian airline. US is at the top.

Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air flight from Tehran, Iran, to Dubai, United Arab Emirates, via Bandar Abbas, Iran. On 3 July 1988, at the end of the Iran–Iraq War, the aircraft serving the flight, an Airbus A300B2-203, was shot down as it flew over the Strait of Hormuz by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes. The aircraft, which had been flying in Iranian airspace over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf on its usual flight path, was destroyed. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, perished.[1] Ranking seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Indian Ocean and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus A300 anywhere in the world.[2]
Source
Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jhungary]

Once the civilian airlines recognized it the bulk of the Identification is done. The rest remaining will mostly be hostile military plane that will not recognize any ADIZ anyway.

If you look at all other country ADIZ it is pretty much this way.

Actually, no.....

The intention of ADIZ is for early warning purpose, any aircraft (Civilian, military) gone over a certain radar detection area are consider a bogey (Unidentified aircraft) before being ID. And as modern Radar works, the radar range is almost certainly longer than the actual airspace expand. Hence the ADIZ is formed.

ADIZ did nothing except the host nation would require to Identify the Bogey, hence ID'ed them and class them into Civilian (Green), Friendly (Blue) or Hostile (Bandit), now, for a bogey to enter an ADIZ, it's up to their perjogative to Identitify themselves. They can either announce their intention to the local ATC, or they pre-file a flight plan to the intented ATC that operate that zone. This is what the Chinese was asking.

Now, for the purpose of ADIZ, it's Chinese job to ID the bogey, rather than the bogey itself. Of Course, you can ID yoruselve before hand which will make the Chinese did their job a lot easier, but at the end of the day, it's the Chinese Job to make sure all aircraft are Identified entering that zone, if no radio contact have established, Chinese can, under the international law, send a few of their fighter to VID the bogey.

Hence, even when the civilian complies with the ADIZ rules (Which i very much doubt) that would not change anything as this is not their job to regonize, but Chinese job to Identify. Civilian Airliners following then Chinese protocol is only doing the Chinese a favor. Yet, in a competant Air Force, a VID would also be required in order to satisify the ADIZ rules, at least this is what happened in the US

Talking about incompetency and shooting down of civilian airline. US is at the top.

Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air flight from Tehran, Iran, to Dubai, United Arab Emirates, via Bandar Abbas, Iran. On 3 July 1988, at the end of the Iran–Iraq War, the aircraft serving the flight, an Airbus A300B2-203, was shot down as it flew over the Strait of Hormuz by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes. The aircraft, which had been flying in Iranian airspace over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf on its usual flight path, was destroyed. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, perished.[1] Ranking seventh among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Indian Ocean and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus A300 anywhere in the world.[2]
Source
Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Umm, dude, ever heard of Restricted zone/Air Space??

Each warship from whatever origin operate in international water can declare a restricted zone. Flight (Civilian or Military) cannot pass into the zone without permission or risk being shot down. Especially in time of war like what happened to Vincennes.

Flight 655 is an avoidable accident that can be prevented. But is it all because of US incompetence?? Lol you are free to think whatever you want, but the flight should not be in that restricted airspace in the first place. Especially when there are a war going on. US did not do enough, i agree, but that did not change the fact that the flight entered a restricted zone with radio silence. What would you do if you are the weapon officer??

 

[Nan Yang]

Umm, dude, ever heard of Restricted zone/Air Space??

Each warship from whatever origin operate in international water can declare a restricted zone. Flight (Civilian or Military) cannot pass into the zone without permission or risk being shot down. Especially in time of war like what happened to Vincennes.

Flight 655 is an avoidable accident that can be prevented. But is it all because of US incompetence?? Lol you are free to think whatever you want, but the flight should not be in that restricted airspace in the first place. Especially when there are a war going on. US did not do enough, i agree, but that did not change the fact that the flight entered a restricted zone with radio silence. What would you do if you are the weapon officer??

Errrr.......

1. The aircraft, which had been flying in Iranian airspace over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf on its usual flight path, was destroyed.

2. According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter

3. The airliner was transmitting the correct transponder "squawk" code typical of a civilian aircraft and maintained English-speaking radio contact with appropriate air traffic control facilities.

4. IR 655 had been cleared from a regional airport and was well outside those limits when it was attacked.[24](5 nautical miles of a warship)

5. Even if the aircraft had been an Iranian F-14, Iran argued, the U.S. would have had no right to shoot it down. The aircraft was flying within Iranian airspace and did not, in fact, follow a path that could be considered an attack profile, nor did it illuminate the Vincennes with radar

6. During the incident, the Vincennes had also covertly entered Iranian territorial waters without first declaring war, while aiding .... yes..Saddam Hussien.

I will stop here.

 

[faithfulguy]

you are a seditious chinese and no rand paul or ron paul excuse is going to work. You can't challenge your CCP employer...

Enjoy your bandwagon, just joined this year football fan, status .

I've been a Ron Paul supporter for a while. And you are an anti-American enemy from within. You would sell out America in a heart beat. Go back to your home country.

I've been a Seahawks fan for 6 years now. Right after I moved here. And they will kick the whiners as*

 

[jhungary]

Errrr.......

1. The aircraft, which had been flying in Iranian airspace over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf on its usual flight path, was destroyed.

2. According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter

3. The airliner was transmitting the correct transponder "squawk" code typical of a civilian aircraft and maintained English-speaking radio contact with appropriate air traffic control facilities.

4. IR 655 had been cleared from a regional airport and was well outside those limits when it was attacked.[24](5 nautical miles of a warship)

5. Even if the aircraft had been an Iranian F-14, Iran argued, the U.S. would have had no right to shoot it down. The aircraft was flying within Iranian airspace and did not, in fact, follow a path that could be considered an attack profile, nor did it illuminate the Vincennes with radar

6. During the incident, the Vincennes had also covertly entered Iranian territorial waters without first declaring war, while aiding .... yes..Saddam Hussien.

I will stop here.

1.) the aircraft was delayed and did not notice anyone of the delay (including Iranian ATC) the delay warrant a notification under ICAO rules

2.) This is indeed correct

3.) the Iranian have not answer to the US Navy Challenge, which was required to do in time of war, nor the ATC contacted the Flight for possible air corridor overlapping

4.) It was under the restricted zone that international law grant us the power to shoot down any incoming

5.) the so called Iranian Airspace is disputed and no one (including you and me) know what is their flight profile, unless you are either in Vincennes or Flight 655, you can argue, but will not take you far.

6.) this point is irreverent as what happened before hand does not directly contribute nor affect the result, if Vincennes were indeed in Iranian after, that only grant Iran right to challenge the Vincennes, it dose not do anything in reverse

In all, I am not saying US is not responsible for the incident, we do but so did the Iranian, again, if you were the weapon officer, you are in a ship, u have an incoming bogey heading straight for you and ignore your request to ID himself, would you fire?