Hafizzz
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Whats it got to with India? It is between China and Pakistan
I know. China and Pakistan NEVER PROTESTED when USA gave advance nuke technology to India......
China confirms two more civilian Nuclear reactors for Pakistan.
- Thread starter Kompromat
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I know. China and Pakistan NEVER PROTESTED when USA gave advance nuke technology to India......
Armstrong
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1,100 MW reactors, that is very nice.
The last ones we sold to Pakistan were about half that, if I remember correctly.
Does anyone know how many MW is Pakistan's entire power grid, and how much are the shortfalls that need to be filled?
Dude the Power Production Capacity in Pakistan is a little under 20,000 MW whilst the demand is a little under 15,000 MW but the Actual Production fluctuates between 9-12,000 MWs on average !
So the short-fall isn't because of production capacity it is because of (i) cyclical debt, (ii) power theft & a (iii) very bad energy-mix !
(i) the cyclical debt thing is such that it costs the Government $x to produce electricity but they're selling it to the consumer at a subsidized $y !
Naturally $x - $y = $z (the subsidy) has to be paid from somewhere & its paid by the Government whose out of cash themselves & have to borrow money to do so ! Money that the Government doesn't even have the funds to pay back the interest on so naturally when they can't pay the interest or the principal amount the borrowing stops & once the borrowing stops so does the differential (the subsidy) & consequently the production !
(ii) there is considerable power theft & late payment - Both of which contribute further to (i) & widen the gulf between what is required to be paid & what is paid by the Government to the Power Producers.
(iii) the energy mix is as such that we've shifted to burning oil (diesel & petrol) to produce electricity ! Now were we an Oil Rich Country with so much money that we could use Dollars Bills for Toilet Paper - That would make sense but we're broke & we're getting broker because of this ludicrous policy !
Traditionally we've produced the bulk of our electricity through Hydel Power & we've produced that at a markedly cheaper rate than what it costs us right now to produce it through Furnace Oil ! Unfortunately no big dams have been constructed in Pakistan for the past few decades - Because of Political Reasons & the many smaller Dams that were supposed to be constructed in the past couple of years haven't been because the Government was too busy gobbling up as much cash as they possibly could - Even our ex-PM is being investigated for widespread corruption in the Rental Power Production Sector (private power producers through furnace oil) !
So the Reactors along with effort towards building a few more dams & switching to Coal Power (we've got tonnes upon tonnes of that here) seems to be the policy of the current Government to switch from the suicidal policies of the last 5-10 years & move towards something more workable !
has your country ever seen $9.6 billion? India is playing with China as it tried to block India's access to NSG, you are just a reason, so take a chill pill, relax and try to build some coal based power plants!
We never cry on development of Pakistan, we shout only when you indulge into destructive business..
China is to finance and build two of its self-developed ACP1000 nuclear reactor in Karachi, Pakistan, in direct violation of its obligations to both the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Nuclear Suppliers’ Group (NSG), according to a well-connected source in Beijing’s diplomatic community and a second industry source.
The two new reactors are to be known as Karachi 2 and Karachi 3 and the deal is costed at $9.6bn.The decision, so far unannounced, will undoubtedly lead to a massive backlash from the international community – particularly from the United States and from neighbouring nuclear power India – over its exporting of nuclear technology to Pakistan, where security against Islamist fundamentalists is a major concern.
China joined the NSG in 2005 and agreed not to sell Pakistan additional reactors beyond its contractual obligations at Chashma, a nuclear facility in Punjab Province built and run with Chinese support. Pakistan is not a signatory to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and has a proven nuclear weapons capability.
China had previously announced the first foreign contract for its self-developed ACP1000 reactor in April. At that point, The Times of India reported Foreign Minister Hong Lei tacitly confirming Pakistan was the destination when he said, “I want to point out that relevant cooperation between China and Pakistan does not violate relevant norms of the NSG.” China further argues that new plants are ‘grandfathered’ by previous agreements on Chashma.
But the reactors in to be built at Paradise Point, 25 miles west of Karachi and 700 miles from Chashma, will go beyond those agreements.
“It is completely illegal,” said the source. “As a member of the NSG, China should have respected the approval process. The official announcement on Karachi will come soon, and there are five nations already preparing to bring serious diplomatic consequences to China in international institutions.”
Analysts say the move is a belated response to a US-Indian civil nuclear energy deal signed in 2008. But that deal was forged with support from both the IAEA and the NSG; China has sought the approval of neither organization for its Karachi plans. The move raises wider questions about China’s long-term attitude towards American-dominated post-2WW stability.
China’s first Generation-III reactor is expected to be commissioned in 2014. Located in Sanmen, Zhejiang Province, the station will feature two AP1000 pressurized water reactors developed by US-based Westinghouse Electric Company.
EXCLUSIVE! China agrees to build new nuclear reactors in Karachi | China Outlook magazine – A monthly online magazine on China's future
The two new reactors are to be known as Karachi 2 and Karachi 3 and the deal is costed at $9.6bn.The decision, so far unannounced, will undoubtedly lead to a massive backlash from the international community – particularly from the United States and from neighbouring nuclear power India – over its exporting of nuclear technology to Pakistan, where security against Islamist fundamentalists is a major concern.
China joined the NSG in 2005 and agreed not to sell Pakistan additional reactors beyond its contractual obligations at Chashma, a nuclear facility in Punjab Province built and run with Chinese support. Pakistan is not a signatory to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and has a proven nuclear weapons capability.
China had previously announced the first foreign contract for its self-developed ACP1000 reactor in April. At that point, The Times of India reported Foreign Minister Hong Lei tacitly confirming Pakistan was the destination when he said, “I want to point out that relevant cooperation between China and Pakistan does not violate relevant norms of the NSG.” China further argues that new plants are ‘grandfathered’ by previous agreements on Chashma.
But the reactors in to be built at Paradise Point, 25 miles west of Karachi and 700 miles from Chashma, will go beyond those agreements.
“It is completely illegal,” said the source. “As a member of the NSG, China should have respected the approval process. The official announcement on Karachi will come soon, and there are five nations already preparing to bring serious diplomatic consequences to China in international institutions.”
Analysts say the move is a belated response to a US-Indian civil nuclear energy deal signed in 2008. But that deal was forged with support from both the IAEA and the NSG; China has sought the approval of neither organization for its Karachi plans. The move raises wider questions about China’s long-term attitude towards American-dominated post-2WW stability.
China’s first Generation-III reactor is expected to be commissioned in 2014. Located in Sanmen, Zhejiang Province, the station will feature two AP1000 pressurized water reactors developed by US-based Westinghouse Electric Company.
EXCLUSIVE! China agrees to build new nuclear reactors in Karachi | China Outlook magazine – A monthly online magazine on China's future
Hafizzz
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Why is India complaining when the two nuclear reactors are of the Grand Father deal ?
The ‘grandfather deal’ refers to the agreement to construct two nuclear reactors in Pakistan before China joined the NSG in 2004.
The ‘grandfather deal’ refers to the agreement to construct two nuclear reactors in Pakistan before China joined the NSG in 2004.
Creder
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sorry if repost, merge please.
China Agrees to Sell Pakistan Two More Nuclear Reactors - WSJ.com
ISLAMABAD Pakistan is acquiring two large nuclear power reactors from longtime ally China, officials said, under a $9.1 billion deal that has raised concern in Washington that Beijing is overstepping international rules on transferring nuclear technology.
For Islamabad, the pact with China counters the nuclear energy accord New Delhi signed with the U.S. under the president George W. Bush. Pakistan regards that arrangement as providing India with an unfair potential strategic advantage for nuclear weapons. Both countries possess a nuclear arsenal.
But the expanding nuclear cooperation between the two countries has raised concern in the U.S. and others about whether China is going beyond international agreements on restricting the transfer of nuclear technology to countries, like Pakistan, who haven't signed the nuclear nonproliferation treaty.
Pakistani officials haven't talked publicly about this latest agreement, which was quietly signed around midyear and closed in early July, about the time Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif visited China.
The senior Pakistani official confirmed the pact to The Wall Street Journal, disclosing that it covers two nuclear power reactors. The accord had been rumored before, but was generally thought to entail just one reactor. Explaining the government's silence over the deal, the official added: "I fear dirty hands will start their spoiling work."
China's embassy in Islamabad and the Commerce Ministry in Beijing didn't respond to calls seeking comment for this article.
The reactors covered by the deal would be technologically advanced and built outside the main port city of Karachi. They each would provide 1,000 megawatts of electricity, a big boost for power-starved Pakistan. "Every country has this. We are also entitled," the senior official said. "We have to focus on adding cheaper energy supply."
China would deliver the first reactor in 70 months-80 months, with the second coming 10 months later. Nuclear reactors take several years to build. They would be installed on the Karachi coast close to a small existing reactor, the senior Pakistani official said. The Chinese will provide 82% of the financing through a loan on what another Pakistani official described as very soft terms.
China is Pakistan's closest ally, in a decadeslong partnership pegged by their respective disputes with India. China has assisted Pakistan's nuclear power program since the 1990s, and the two nations are alleged to have worked together on nuclear weapons technology.
"The cooperation [with Pakistan] is in accordance with the nonproliferation treaty and international norms," Su Hao, director of the Center for Strategic and Conflict Management at China Foreign Affairs University, said.
China belongs to the Nuclear Suppliers Group, which regulates trade in civil nuclear technology, with an eye toward nonproliferation of nuclear weapons. China says its cooperation with Pakistan predated its joining the NSG in 2004, so the alliance with Islamabad is grandfathered as an existing arrangement.
But a U.S. State Department official said the group discussed China's cooperation with Pakistan in the past several plenary sessions. "We remain concerned that a transfer of new reactors to Pakistan appears to extend beyond the cooperation that was grandfathered in when China was approved for membership in the NSG."
"Most members of the Nuclear Suppliers Group do not want to see an indefinite stream of equipment and nuclear material going from China to Pakistan under the grandfather clause," said Mark Hibbs, an expert on nuclear energy at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, an independent think tank based in Washington, D.C.
Pakistan says all its nuclear plants will be open to inspection from the International Atomic Energy Agency, a United Nations organization that polices nuclear safety.
China has supplied Pakistan with two 300-megawatt reactors of an older design, which were completed in 2000 and 2011. It is building two more under past deals, in addition to the new 1,000-megawatt reactors. Pakistan's current nuclear energy capacity is just 725 megawatts.
A Pakistani official said the supply of power from the nuclear plants was constant, unlike hydroelectric power, another option for Pakistan, while the operational cost of electricity from a nuclear power station is considerably lower than the country's oil and gas-fired generation plants.
Pakistan suffers a debilitating energy crisis that is starving industry of power and depriving households of basic everyday comforts. There are planned outages of 10 hours-12 hours a day, due to a roughly 5,000-megawatt gap between supply and demand. Tackling the crisis has been Mr. Sharif's top priority since taking office in June.
Beyond energy needs lies a strategic rationale. Under 2005's U.S.-India Civil Nuclear Agreement, India, which also isn't part of the nonproliferation treaty, was granted an exemption to buy nuclear power technology.
Pakistan is in a nuclear arms race with India and says the accord was discriminatory. "The U.S.-India nuclear deal was very disturbing for the strategic stability of this region," said Sarwar Naqvi, a former Pakistani ambassador to the IAEA. "It put Pakistan at a disadvantage. It freed Indian uranium to be diverted to their military program."
However, some legal complications have subsequently stalled the anticipated sale of American nuclear plants to India. These obstacles include the liability for compensation for accidents that now exists under Indian law, following the deadly 1984 accident at a chemical plant owned by Union Carbide, a U.S. company, in the Indian city of Bhopal.
"Pakistan is getting more benefits from China than India is getting from the United States so far," Carnegie Endowment's Mr. Hibbs said.
Mr. Hibbs said that the design of the new 1,000-megawatt reactors that Pakistan will receive is untested, even in China. He added that the price tag doesn't suggest that Islamabad is getting any "bargain."
The Indian ministry of external affairs declined to comment on the Chinese nuclear deal with Pakistan.
As part of his speech to the United Nations General Assembly last month, Prime Minister Sharif called for Pakistan to be allowed to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group. "Pakistan qualifies for full access to civil nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, to meet its growing energy needs," Mr. Sharif said.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...511807840.html
Kersten Zhang and Niharika Mandhana contributed to this article.
First good news coming from this PML_N government
China Agrees to Sell Pakistan Two More Nuclear Reactors - WSJ.com
ISLAMABAD Pakistan is acquiring two large nuclear power reactors from longtime ally China, officials said, under a $9.1 billion deal that has raised concern in Washington that Beijing is overstepping international rules on transferring nuclear technology.
For Islamabad, the pact with China counters the nuclear energy accord New Delhi signed with the U.S. under the president George W. Bush. Pakistan regards that arrangement as providing India with an unfair potential strategic advantage for nuclear weapons. Both countries possess a nuclear arsenal.
But the expanding nuclear cooperation between the two countries has raised concern in the U.S. and others about whether China is going beyond international agreements on restricting the transfer of nuclear technology to countries, like Pakistan, who haven't signed the nuclear nonproliferation treaty.
Pakistani officials haven't talked publicly about this latest agreement, which was quietly signed around midyear and closed in early July, about the time Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif visited China.
The senior Pakistani official confirmed the pact to The Wall Street Journal, disclosing that it covers two nuclear power reactors. The accord had been rumored before, but was generally thought to entail just one reactor. Explaining the government's silence over the deal, the official added: "I fear dirty hands will start their spoiling work."
China's embassy in Islamabad and the Commerce Ministry in Beijing didn't respond to calls seeking comment for this article.
The reactors covered by the deal would be technologically advanced and built outside the main port city of Karachi. They each would provide 1,000 megawatts of electricity, a big boost for power-starved Pakistan. "Every country has this. We are also entitled," the senior official said. "We have to focus on adding cheaper energy supply."
China would deliver the first reactor in 70 months-80 months, with the second coming 10 months later. Nuclear reactors take several years to build. They would be installed on the Karachi coast close to a small existing reactor, the senior Pakistani official said. The Chinese will provide 82% of the financing through a loan on what another Pakistani official described as very soft terms.
China is Pakistan's closest ally, in a decadeslong partnership pegged by their respective disputes with India. China has assisted Pakistan's nuclear power program since the 1990s, and the two nations are alleged to have worked together on nuclear weapons technology.
"The cooperation [with Pakistan] is in accordance with the nonproliferation treaty and international norms," Su Hao, director of the Center for Strategic and Conflict Management at China Foreign Affairs University, said.
China belongs to the Nuclear Suppliers Group, which regulates trade in civil nuclear technology, with an eye toward nonproliferation of nuclear weapons. China says its cooperation with Pakistan predated its joining the NSG in 2004, so the alliance with Islamabad is grandfathered as an existing arrangement.
But a U.S. State Department official said the group discussed China's cooperation with Pakistan in the past several plenary sessions. "We remain concerned that a transfer of new reactors to Pakistan appears to extend beyond the cooperation that was grandfathered in when China was approved for membership in the NSG."
"Most members of the Nuclear Suppliers Group do not want to see an indefinite stream of equipment and nuclear material going from China to Pakistan under the grandfather clause," said Mark Hibbs, an expert on nuclear energy at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, an independent think tank based in Washington, D.C.
Pakistan says all its nuclear plants will be open to inspection from the International Atomic Energy Agency, a United Nations organization that polices nuclear safety.
China has supplied Pakistan with two 300-megawatt reactors of an older design, which were completed in 2000 and 2011. It is building two more under past deals, in addition to the new 1,000-megawatt reactors. Pakistan's current nuclear energy capacity is just 725 megawatts.
A Pakistani official said the supply of power from the nuclear plants was constant, unlike hydroelectric power, another option for Pakistan, while the operational cost of electricity from a nuclear power station is considerably lower than the country's oil and gas-fired generation plants.
Pakistan suffers a debilitating energy crisis that is starving industry of power and depriving households of basic everyday comforts. There are planned outages of 10 hours-12 hours a day, due to a roughly 5,000-megawatt gap between supply and demand. Tackling the crisis has been Mr. Sharif's top priority since taking office in June.
Beyond energy needs lies a strategic rationale. Under 2005's U.S.-India Civil Nuclear Agreement, India, which also isn't part of the nonproliferation treaty, was granted an exemption to buy nuclear power technology.
Pakistan is in a nuclear arms race with India and says the accord was discriminatory. "The U.S.-India nuclear deal was very disturbing for the strategic stability of this region," said Sarwar Naqvi, a former Pakistani ambassador to the IAEA. "It put Pakistan at a disadvantage. It freed Indian uranium to be diverted to their military program."
However, some legal complications have subsequently stalled the anticipated sale of American nuclear plants to India. These obstacles include the liability for compensation for accidents that now exists under Indian law, following the deadly 1984 accident at a chemical plant owned by Union Carbide, a U.S. company, in the Indian city of Bhopal.
"Pakistan is getting more benefits from China than India is getting from the United States so far," Carnegie Endowment's Mr. Hibbs said.
Mr. Hibbs said that the design of the new 1,000-megawatt reactors that Pakistan will receive is untested, even in China. He added that the price tag doesn't suggest that Islamabad is getting any "bargain."
The Indian ministry of external affairs declined to comment on the Chinese nuclear deal with Pakistan.
As part of his speech to the United Nations General Assembly last month, Prime Minister Sharif called for Pakistan to be allowed to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group. "Pakistan qualifies for full access to civil nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, to meet its growing energy needs," Mr. Sharif said.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...511807840.html
Kersten Zhang and Niharika Mandhana contributed to this article.
First good news coming from this PML_N government
Lets be honest, US or any other country will never directly invade Pakistan. Lets put it this way; Pakistan will never get invaded by foreign forces like many middle eastern states but this doesn't mean Pakistan stop pursuing nuclear technology. This is a great step and its about time that Pakistan gets its respect back in the world.
Nishan_101
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Pakistan should make Reactors on its own....
shuntmaster
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Does Pakistan have indigenous technology for civilian nuclear power?
Pakistanisage
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Keep them coming China. We need bigger and better Nuclear Reactors.
bc040400065
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Edevelop
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razgriz19
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yes, thats true
however like it said in the article, hydro is not constant, nuclear is.
we need constant supply of energy.
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